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A Cheat ? ? ?


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#21 PocketYoda

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Posted 09 March 2022 - 06:24 PM

With so much power creep in this since the Cauldron took over.. Its impossible to tell hacks from just stupidly overpowered builds..

I don't think you saw a cheater op just a crazy overpowered light mech. Which is standard now.

They need to make ultra light lasers ghost heat with light lasers..

Edited by Nomad Tech, 09 March 2022 - 06:26 PM.


#22 martian

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Posted 09 March 2022 - 08:31 PM

View PostNomad Tech, on 09 March 2022 - 06:24 PM, said:

I don't think you saw a cheater op just a crazy overpowered light mech. Which is standard now.


Could you list light 'Mechs that you consider to be "crazy overpowered"?

#23 Meep Meep

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Posted 09 March 2022 - 09:05 PM

View Postmartian, on 09 March 2022 - 08:31 PM, said:


Could you list light 'Mechs that you consider to be "crazy overpowered"?


With the right pilot the fleas and locust and myst lynx and firestarters are all quite lethal punching way above their weight class after the recent various quirk and weapon buffs. But it takes the right pilot and fortunately the majority of pilots simply can't make them perform at that level.

#24 martian

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Posted 09 March 2022 - 09:19 PM

View PostMeep Meep, on 09 March 2022 - 09:05 PM, said:

With the right pilot the fleas and locust and myst lynx and firestarters are all quite lethal punching way above their weight class after the recent various quirk and weapon buffs.

Yes, those 'Mechs have some effective variants. However, "effective" is not the same as "overpowered".


View PostMeep Meep, on 09 March 2022 - 09:05 PM, said:

But it takes the right pilot and fortunately the majority of pilots simply can't make them perform at that level.

Exactly.

And do not forget that the higher you move in Tiers, the better gunnery skills and the situational awareness the enemy players have. There are moments in T1 games when you make one mistake as a light 'Mech pilot and you are dead.

#25 Meep Meep

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Posted 09 March 2022 - 09:35 PM

View Postmartian, on 09 March 2022 - 09:19 PM, said:

And do not forget that the higher you move in Tiers, the better gunnery skills and the situational awareness the enemy players have. There are moments in T1 games when you make one mistake as a light 'Mech pilot and you are dead.


Near every video I see of someone claiming they are overpowered are by tier 1 players in tier 1 or fp games. Data has a ton of these but when you watch him play he isn't rolling around willy nilly farming fresh mechs he is waiting for them to get beat up and open in the critical spots then he dashes in and crits them out. He will charge a fresh mech too but generally its a solo sniper with long duration beams so they can't get in any real focused damage on his twisting mech. So yes technically certain lights with certain builds are definitely op but only in a top players hands who knows when and how to apply it.

#26 Curccu

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Posted 09 March 2022 - 11:32 PM

View PostMeep Meep, on 09 March 2022 - 09:35 PM, said:


Near every video I see of someone claiming they are overpowered are by tier 1 players in tier 1 or fp games. Data has a ton of these but when you watch him play he isn't rolling around willy nilly farming fresh mechs he is waiting for them to get beat up and open in the critical spots then he dashes in and crits them out. He will charge a fresh mech too but generally its a solo sniper with long duration beams so they can't get in any real focused damage on his twisting mech. So yes technically certain lights with certain builds are definitely op but only in a top players hands who knows when and how to apply it.

Other T1 players than Data? Data is so stupidly biased towards his beloved sniping and fat mechs that his opinion is as valuable as Nomads.

#27 Bowelhacker

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 03:45 AM

For whatever it's worth I've noticed a few matches lately where myself and others have been dying insanely fast at places and times I wouldn't have thought possible. Not that I've really bothered to investigate much.

#28 FanTheManButSecretlyAwoman

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 07:26 AM

1 hit rocket launchers wombo combo!

Pack lots of them and you can even 1 shot an assault mech.

#29 Escef

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 07:59 AM

View PostFanTheManButSecretlyAwoman, on 10 March 2022 - 07:26 AM, said:

1 hit rocket launchers wombo combo!

Pack lots of them and you can even 1 shot an assault mech.


Only time I've ever witnessed this it was a back attack. Appropriately enough, from an Assassin. Twin snubbies and two each of RL10 and RL15... Ok, it was me, and I gutted a Warhawk.

Edited by Escef, 10 March 2022 - 08:00 AM.


#30 Mal Bolge

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:17 AM

A piranah with 15 small heavy lasers can dish out 97 damage in 1.5 secs. Very fun but situational build. Best mech to erase assaults in 1 shot. And yeah, it is crazy over powered for a 20 ton mech to pack that kind of punch. Could have been such a build that got you.

#31 Curccu

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:54 AM

View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 08:17 AM, said:

A piranah with 15 small heavy lasers can dish out 97 damage in 1.5 secs. Very fun but situational build. Best mech to erase assaults in 1 shot. And yeah, it is crazy over powered for a 20 ton mech to pack that kind of punch. Could have been such a build that got you.

Well no.




It's stupidly bad build that is too hot to play well and is very far away from OP.
Even if you stagger them 5-5-5 avoiding ghost heat you might just be able to handle that heat with skilltree bonuses but burn time is 2.1 seconds if you avoid ghost heat perfectly.
If you shoot 7 and 8 that is 85,5 heats and your heat cap is about 50.... with well timed coolshot you can probably get away with this.... twice a game then it is that ~1.5-6 seconds burn time.
Alpha will instantly blow you up...

and that 97 damage isn't enough to pop any assault mechs front CT, unless someone is using wayyyyyyyyyy to much back armor... like about half of the max armor much.

#32 Mal Bolge

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM

Actually yes! It is a silly build, but it works. And of course you can't burn through an assaults front CT with 97 damage, that's obvious, why even mention it? However it does a superb job of popping assaults (and any other mech) from behind. And it will strip your front armor if you are already damaged.

It is a hit and run build. You max out your heat when you have fired (again obviously) so you have to run, hide and cool of before you repeat. I think my record is 5 kills with that build. So silly yeah, but it works if you play it right, and it's insanely fun.

And I do understand the frustration of assaults getting instantly erased by a 20 tonner. No matter how you swing it, 97 pin point damage from such a small mech is just silly.

Edited by Mal Nilsum, 10 March 2022 - 01:02 PM.


#33 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:11 PM

View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

Actually yes! It is a silly build, but it works. And of course you can't burn through an assaults front CT with 97 damage, that's obvious, why even mention it?


Because the entire premise of this thread was that people are describing experiences where their frontal armor (allegedly) evaporated "near instantly". So ...

View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

However it does a superb job of popping assaults (and any other mech) from behind. And it will strip your front armor if you are already damaged.


... your example of a (not necessarily good) mech build doing a (supposedly) "superb job of popping assaults" is "somewhat" unrelated, wouldn't you agree?

View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

It is a hit and run build. You max out your heat when you have fired (again obviously) so you have to run, hide and cool of before you repeat.


The same is true for the PIR-2 build that leverages 10 micro pulse lasers plus 5 heavy smalls or other variations thereof. Those builds do have a lower alpha but since your approach is about staggering the attack in groups of three over a period of time that in practical terms is much longer than you originally claimed (and requires quite perfect execution along with very good firing conditions on stationary targets) those other builds achieve the same with more wiggle room / greater ease.

View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

I think my record is 5 kills with that build. So silly yeah, but it works if you play it right, and it's insanely fun.


What exactly is "silly" about getting 5 kills in a glass cannon build within a death match fps game environment where different variations of stompy robots have the sole job of killing other stompy robots?! Please tell me that you don't subscribe to that "Lights are for scouting" nonsense.


View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

And I do understand the frustration of assaults getting instantly erased by a 20 tonner.


As Curccu tried to point out: Even with perfect execution your build needs longer than you claimed - thus making it "not instantly". But the real kicker is: How does that "frustration" of assault pilots compare to the frustration of Light mech pilots that get near instantly erased by assaults and heavies far more often?

View PostMal Nilsum, on 10 March 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

No matter how you swing it, 97 pin point damage from such a small mech is just silly.


It would appear to me that particularly your build with those longer burn times is bound to evoke the usual "in practice not really pin point" debate while your claim about the allegedly absolute sillyness isn't something that everybody will agree upon (but certainly some if the known "Lights are OP" proponents).

#34 PocketYoda

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:16 PM

View Postmartian, on 09 March 2022 - 08:31 PM, said:


Could you list light 'Mechs that you consider to be "crazy overpowered"?


Overpowered
Fleas
Piranhas
Myst Lynx's
Locusts
Arctic Cheetahs
Commandos
Incubus

Some what Dangerous
Adders
Kitfoxes
Panthers
Urbanmechs
Ravens
Javelins
Wolfhounds

#35 pattonesque

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:28 PM

lol all the OP ones are ones he can't hit

#36 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:47 PM

View PostNomad Tech, on 10 March 2022 - 08:16 PM, said:


Overpowered
Fleas
Piranhas
Myst Lynx's
Locusts
Arctic Cheetahs
Commandos
Incubus

Some what Dangerous
Adders
Kitfoxes
Panthers
Urbanmechs
Ravens
Javelins
Wolfhounds


Okay, just for clarity here, you made two lists? Are you implying that the “Somewhat dangerous” lights need a nerf too? That it’s really only the ones you didn’t list that are fine?

And again, if these mechs are so overpowered, why aren’t you using them to rule the game and rocket upward to T1?

#37 Extra Guac

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:49 PM

Damage to internals could be increased by ammo explosions as well as by critical hits.

From behind, it's pretty easy for 1 mech to do 64 damage in one second or less.

Don't turn corners where the enemy team could have a firing line set up.

#38 Escef

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:49 PM

View PostNomad Tech, on 10 March 2022 - 08:16 PM, said:


Overpowered
Fleas
Piranhas
Myst Lynx's
Locusts
Arctic Cheetahs
Commandos
Incubus

Some what Dangerous
Adders
Kitfoxes
Panthers
Urbanmechs
Ravens
Javelins
Wolfhounds


If they are OP, why is it that competitive players avoid using light mechs altogether?

Look, I'm 46 years old, my reflexes aren't what they used to be... Frankly, neither is my eyesight. I completely understand that small, fast targets are a royal PITA. However, I have played this game long enough, using a diversity of chassis, to know that lights have the highest skill floor for effective use, as well as the lowest ceiling on effectiveness.

That some light jocks in the lower tiers can rack up high damage totals is due to two simple factors:
1. The userbase's preference for heavy and assault mechs means that there are more possible damage points to score in a match.
2. Low tier players expect big mechs to make up for their deficiencies in aim/skill/reflexes/etc., which they do not, resulting in slow, hulking monster mechs that can barely hit the broadside of an Atlas, nevermind a small, fast moving target. This tends to over-inflate the survivability of light mechs.

There's also the tertiary factor of most low tier players having less situational awareness than a fire hydrant.

#39 Curccu

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:51 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 10 March 2022 - 08:28 PM, said:

lol all the OP ones are ones he can't hit

Nah I'm positive that he can't hit Javelin either.

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 10 March 2022 - 08:47 PM, said:

Okay, just for clarity here, you made two lists? Are you implying that the “Somewhat dangerous” lights need a nerf too? That it’s really only the ones you didn’t list that are fine?

And again, if these mechs are so overpowered, why aren’t you using them to rule the game and rocket upward to T1?

Every light needs to be about executioner size and go 32KPH!

He has enough honor to not use eez mode mechs.

#40 caravann

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 10:04 PM

Server lag, Won't find any evidence when recording because you were offline for a second meaning all hits on the mech is critical because of an exploit of shutdown mechs has no armor resistance. It's stupid but it's just how the gameplay works. If you get lag you die by the next shots as the mech has no protection from critical hits. They didn't bother to fix it when people uses shutdown to mechs to increase the critical damage. Heads at sudden become viable, They maybe had a lag for a fraction of a second but that's all the time it needs to destroy a head component. I just give an example of how much faster a mech is destroyed when offline. The testing ground has offline mechs and your shots only need half of the effort to be eliminated.

That's the story of sudden kills who you couldn't see coming. Because the mech was shut down for a fraction of a second and the reason why brawling won't be optimal for a long time until it has been resolved on how shutdown mechs are working. Who controls the server controls the emperor of the known worlds. What happens when you get lag? You are no longer in the game and what's happening in the game can't be seen. You are in a disadvantage because you are in the past and an enemy who knows the future is able to act faster. That's why people running with faster connection and faster computers are able to predict the future and has to wait for other players to enter the game. This game in particular proposes a pc master race and it could as well be the case that it maybe wasn't a cheat but an exploit on the limitations of the videogame. Exploits exists in almost every sport, in videogames it's about being faster than the opponent and that's why unlimited exploit in videogames shouldn't be part of the design because it won't matter if you are a good player if the opponent had to wait for your next move. That's why even if you think everything runs fine you need confirmation from both sides and that's why when looking at shots on how you were killed is done from the camera who made the kill and from the camera from who got killed. Without both sources no evidence is good enough.





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