#1
Posted 15 March 2022 - 05:16 PM
On this occasion I was working on an isolated assault that was trailing the pack. He got help from a friendly Cipher that was carrying a flamer & machine gun loadout. I was already riding the heat curve, so I did what I always do - made sure I had override engaged and headed back towards my team. The piranha being much faster than my ACW was able to keep the flamers on me a lot of the time. My death was not due to his machine guns, it was purely an overheat death (aka it said I killed myself). I did not see or get notification that I lost a side torso before I died. Sorry, no video.
My question - I thought (maybe incorrectly so) - that the flamer mechanic only took your heat to 90% on the heat bar - and that you could only die due to overheating if you fired weapons, used jump-jets, stood in lava, lost a side torso, etc. - basically something that induced enough additional heat to kill you. Obviously moving generates some, but its never been enough to cause overheat death. Am I just wrong (which I am perfectly willing to accept), or did the mechanics change at some point in the past couple years? Flamers are such trash tier weapons that I almost never encounter anyone using them, so my experience even through thousands of games is very limited. Thanks.
(And for the record, this is NOT a backhanded nerf flamers, buff flamers, nerf lights, etc. thread in disguise. Just want to understand what is so I can adapt.)
#2
Posted 15 March 2022 - 08:58 PM
There's also that unexplained skill in fire power or survival tree of flamer ramp down heat. No clue that that does but something with flamers from the name.
#3
Posted 15 March 2022 - 09:52 PM
It happened to me once. I’m not gonna let it happen twice…
On that note, now I’m very tempted to run some sort of a flamer ‘Mech of my own at some point in the future. I fully intend to name it “Idiot Test”.
Edited by Akamia Terizen, 15 March 2022 - 10:02 PM.
#4
Posted 15 March 2022 - 11:00 PM
ThreeStooges, on 15 March 2022 - 08:58 PM, said:
Pretty damn good on some brawl builds, specially clanners cause they weight only ½ ton. Bad pilots who do not understand mechanics of the weapon just cook themselves, better pilots cook enemies. Flamers don't need to do damage they prevent incoming damage.
I use them on my on1-iic-a and acw-a for example. With flamers enemy isn't shooting back much usually = less damage to me or they cook and shutdown or blow up.
ThreeStooges, on 15 March 2022 - 08:58 PM, said:
7.5% faster ramp down on that flamer bar for each node.
Vorpal Puppy, on 15 March 2022 - 05:16 PM, said:
My understanding is same as yours, they just ramp up the heat up to 90% and do nothing beyond that.
No idea without that video why your mech popped if you didn't shoot....
Edited by Curccu, 15 March 2022 - 11:01 PM.
#5
Posted 16 March 2022 - 04:02 AM
Night Gyr--all variants have -100% External Heat Transfer, meaning that Flamers won't affect them.
(Night Gyr runs as hot on Polar Highlands, as it does on Terra Therma).
Battlemaster Hellslinger Hero mech also has -50% External Heat Transfer!
#6
Posted 16 March 2022 - 05:25 AM
but in the 10% you can use it, it's very good.
if you're a brawler, and you get a 1v1 brawl, that flamer all but guarantees you the win in that matchup, no matter what your opponent actually uses (cause he can't use it, see? ).
problem is: it's rarely a 1v1, with red potatoes doing everything imaginable and everything un-imaginable, blue taters doing the same.. it's just not a good environment to use an (over)specialised brawler in.
where flamers do good is in teamwork-based modes (read fw), and especially in scouting, back then before Paul in his infinite wisdom decided to axe it for no reason.
Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 16 March 2022 - 05:27 AM.
#7
Posted 16 March 2022 - 08:30 AM
Vorpal Puppy, on 15 March 2022 - 05:16 PM, said:
On this occasion I was working on an isolated assault that was trailing the pack. He got help from a friendly Cipher that was carrying a flamer & machine gun loadout. I was already riding the heat curve, so I did what I always do - made sure I had override engaged and headed back towards my team. The piranha being much faster than my ACW was able to keep the flamers on me a lot of the time. My death was not due to his machine guns, it was purely an overheat death (aka it said I killed myself). I did not see or get notification that I lost a side torso before I died. Sorry, no video.
My question - I thought (maybe incorrectly so) - that the flamer mechanic only took your heat to 90% on the heat bar - and that you could only die due to overheating if you fired weapons, used jump-jets, stood in lava, lost a side torso, etc. - basically something that induced enough additional heat to kill you. Obviously moving generates some, but its never been enough to cause overheat death. Am I just wrong (which I am perfectly willing to accept), or did the mechanics change at some point in the past couple years? Flamers are such trash tier weapons that I almost never encounter anyone using them, so my experience even through thousands of games is very limited. Thanks.
(And for the record, this is NOT a backhanded nerf flamers, buff flamers, nerf lights, etc. thread in disguise. Just want to understand what is so I can adapt.)
I'm guessing something took out your side torso, causing you to overheat. Massed MGs could deal a lot plus crit damage. If you had extra heatsinks, maybe those were critted out?
#8
Posted 16 March 2022 - 08:57 AM
#9
Posted 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM
Vorpal Puppy, on 16 March 2022 - 08:57 AM, said:
Depending on your damage profile at that time, this might really have been the case. Maybe you had a damaged CT, the Cipher popped your ST, you took an unlucky overheat damake blow to your damaged CT and it killed you almost instantly. IIRC, by losing your ST you lose 40% of your heatcapacity at once. If you were at 90%, that means your Heat was at least at 45 pts (assuming 10 DHS, no skill nodes, heat capacity of 50) resulting in a drop in capacity down to 30. That would've spiked you up to 150% heat and would deal massive overheat damage really quick. The -15% overheat damage quirk might have not been sufficient to save you.
#10
Posted 16 March 2022 - 10:34 PM
Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:
#11
Posted 16 March 2022 - 10:35 PM
Vorpal Puppy, on 16 March 2022 - 08:57 AM, said:
smaller lights at least can pretty much insta pop after losing sidetorso if they were riding heat cap
#12
Posted 16 March 2022 - 11:43 PM
I am sad that MechWarrior Online lacks Inferno SRMs.
I love Infernos in BattleTech, especially on 'Mechs with multiple SRM ammo bins, so I can switch between Infernos and standard SRM as the situation demands it.
Even the old MechWarrior 2 had them.
2) Plasma weapons
I know that it is probably not going to happen, but I would love to see Plasma Rifle (Inner Sphere) and Plasma Cannon (Clan) added to MechWarrior Online. I think that they could offer some interesting new builds and maybe reinvigorate the gameplay.
#13
Posted 17 March 2022 - 08:40 AM
Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:
My build is fully skilled out. It has every heat and cooldown related node in the skill trees. The engine is a clan XL250. I have 4 extra heat sinks, 2 in each torso. It carries 6 tons of ammo - 2 in each leg, 1 in the head, and 1 in the CT. With the ammo skill nodes, I'm just not good enough to survive long enough to burn through more than that much ammo - that's 840 SRMs .
I am sure I was at 90+% heat when the Cipher jumped me.
#14
Posted 09 July 2023 - 08:34 AM
Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:
Oh my god, thank you for this explaination, even without the initial context knowledge about this mechanic is essential. Would be great if game teached people these unexplained mechanics in a first place, but folks in forums like you are saving the day for now. Thanks a lot!
#15
Posted 09 July 2023 - 10:37 PM
Edited by PocketYoda, 09 July 2023 - 10:37 PM.
#17
Posted 10 July 2023 - 03:44 AM
#18
Posted 10 July 2023 - 04:02 AM
#20
Posted 11 July 2023 - 06:56 AM
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