32 replies to this topic

[Vorpal Puppy]

Got what I hope is a simple questions about the game mechanics of flamers. I was playing a match the other day on Grim in my Arctic Wolf (ACW-1). Maybe not the best loadout, but I was running what is fairly effective for me, 4xSRM6 in the arms, 5xSRM2 in the torso. It's got a high alpha without ghost heat for the typical dump and run, plus the 5xSRM2 loadout is almost heat neutral with just a tiny amount of trigger discipline if the opportunity presents for a sustained engagement.

On this occasion I was working on an isolated assault that was trailing the pack. He got help from a friendly Cipher that was carrying a flamer & machine gun loadout. I was already riding the heat curve, so I did what I always do - made sure I had override engaged and headed back towards my team. The piranha being much faster than my ACW was able to keep the flamers on me a lot of the time. My death was not due to his machine guns, it was purely an overheat death (aka it said I killed myself). I did not see or get notification that I lost a side torso before I died. Sorry, no video.

My question - I thought (maybe incorrectly so) - that the flamer mechanic only took your heat to 90% on the heat bar - and that you could only die due to overheating if you fired weapons, used jump-jets, stood in lava, lost a side torso, etc. - basically something that induced enough additional heat to kill you. Obviously moving generates some, but its never been enough to cause overheat death. Am I just wrong (which I am perfectly willing to accept), or did the mechanics change at some point in the past couple years? Flamers are such trash tier weapons that I almost never encounter anyone using them, so my experience even through thousands of games is very limited. Thanks.

(And for the record, this is NOT a backhanded nerf flamers, buff flamers, nerf lights, etc. thread in disguise. Just want to understand what is so I can adapt.)

[ThreeStooges]

Flamers are a joke weapon at best. They ramp your mech heat up to 100 just as much as an enemy mech. You'll cook yourself too with over ride on. People who try and use them are hoping the enemy has their over ride on so they will kill themselves due to the heat. They do very little actual damage in and of itself hence it is paired with mgs, smls or some times a srm2 for actual bit of damage.

There's also that unexplained skill in fire power or survival tree of flamer ramp down heat. No clue that that does but something with flamers from the name.

[Akamia Terizen]

Having been on the receiving end of a flamer ‘Mech’s attack once, getting killed in seconds, I realized it’s kind of an “idiot test” weapon. The test I failed. The idea being that you hope your enemy isn’t paying attention to their heat gauge (or most anything else) as you sneak up behind them and cook them, then when they finally realize you’re there, they panic-fire and overheat. Depending on whether they’re the type to keep override on or not, they either shut down for a quick and/or easy kill, or just melt to death as they go down swinging.

It happened to me once. I’m not gonna let it happen twice…

On that note, now I’m very tempted to run some sort of a flamer ‘Mech of my own at some point in the future. I fully intend to name it “Idiot Test”.

Edited by Akamia Terizen, 15 March 2022 - 10:02 PM.

[Curccu]

ThreeStooges, on 15 March 2022 - 08:58 PM, said:

Flamers are a joke weapon at best. They ramp your mech heat up to 100 just as much as an enemy mech. You'll cook yourself too with over ride on. People who try and use them are hoping the enemy has their over ride on so they will kill themselves due to the heat. They do very little actual damage in and of itself hence it is paired with mgs, smls or some times a srm2 for actual bit of damage.

Pretty damn good on some brawl builds, specially clanners cause they weight only ½ ton. Bad pilots who do not understand mechanics of the weapon just cook themselves, better pilots cook enemies. Flamers don't need to do damage they prevent incoming damage.
I use them on my on1-iic-a and acw-a for example. With flamers enemy isn't shooting back much usually = less damage to me or they cook and shutdown or blow up.

ThreeStooges, on 15 March 2022 - 08:58 PM, said:

There's also that unexplained skill in fire power or survival tree of flamer ramp down heat. No clue that that does but something with flamers from the name.

7.5% faster ramp down on that flamer bar for each node.

Vorpal Puppy, on 15 March 2022 - 05:16 PM, said:

My question

My understanding is same as yours, they just ramp up the heat up to 90% and do nothing beyond that.
No idea without that video why your mech popped if you didn't shoot....

Edited by Curccu, 15 March 2022 - 11:01 PM.

[w0qj]

The few mechs with -xx% External Heat Transfer also help against Flamers!

Night Gyr--all variants have -100% External Heat Transfer, meaning that Flamers won't affect them.
(Night Gyr runs as hot on Polar Highlands, as it does on Terra Therma).

Battlemaster Hellslinger Hero mech also has -50% External Heat Transfer!

[Captain Caveman DE]

a flamer is useless in at least 90% of TODAYS average QP-match situations.
but in the 10% you can use it, it's very good.

if you're a brawler, and you get a 1v1 brawl, that flamer all but guarantees you the win in that matchup, no matter what your opponent actually uses (cause he can't use it, see? ).
problem is: it's rarely a 1v1, with red potatoes doing everything imaginable and everything un-imaginable, blue taters doing the same.. it's just not a good environment to use an (over)specialised brawler in.

where flamers do good is in teamwork-based modes (read fw), and especially in scouting, back then before Paul in his infinite wisdom decided to axe it for no reason.

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 16 March 2022 - 05:27 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Vorpal Puppy, on 15 March 2022 - 05:16 PM, said:

Got what I hope is a simple questions about the game mechanics of flamers. I was playing a match the other day on Grim in my Arctic Wolf (ACW-1). Maybe not the best loadout, but I was running what is fairly effective for me, 4xSRM6 in the arms, 5xSRM2 in the torso. It's got a high alpha without ghost heat for the typical dump and run, plus the 5xSRM2 loadout is almost heat neutral with just a tiny amount of trigger discipline if the opportunity presents for a sustained engagement.

On this occasion I was working on an isolated assault that was trailing the pack. He got help from a friendly Cipher that was carrying a flamer & machine gun loadout. I was already riding the heat curve, so I did what I always do - made sure I had override engaged and headed back towards my team. The piranha being much faster than my ACW was able to keep the flamers on me a lot of the time. My death was not due to his machine guns, it was purely an overheat death (aka it said I killed myself). I did not see or get notification that I lost a side torso before I died. Sorry, no video.

My question - I thought (maybe incorrectly so) - that the flamer mechanic only took your heat to 90% on the heat bar - and that you could only die due to overheating if you fired weapons, used jump-jets, stood in lava, lost a side torso, etc. - basically something that induced enough additional heat to kill you. Obviously moving generates some, but its never been enough to cause overheat death. Am I just wrong (which I am perfectly willing to accept), or did the mechanics change at some point in the past couple years? Flamers are such trash tier weapons that I almost never encounter anyone using them, so my experience even through thousands of games is very limited. Thanks.

(And for the record, this is NOT a backhanded nerf flamers, buff flamers, nerf lights, etc. thread in disguise. Just want to understand what is so I can adapt.)

I'm guessing something took out your side torso, causing you to overheat. Massed MGs could deal a lot plus crit damage. If you had extra heatsinks, maybe those were critted out?

[Vorpal Puppy]

OK, so if it can only take my heat to 90%, one of my STs must have popped but I didn't get the notification before I was dead.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Vorpal Puppy, on 16 March 2022 - 08:57 AM, said:

OK, so if it can only take my heat to 90%, one of my STs must have popped but I didn't get the notification before I was dead.

Depending on your damage profile at that time, this might really have been the case. Maybe you had a damaged CT, the Cipher popped your ST, you took an unlucky overheat damake blow to your damaged CT and it killed you almost instantly. IIRC, by losing your ST you lose 40% of your heatcapacity at once. If you were at 90%, that means your Heat was at least at 45 pts (assuming 10 DHS, no skill nodes, heat capacity of 50) resulting in a drop in capacity down to 30. That would've spiked you up to 150% heat and would deal massive overheat damage really quick. The -15% overheat damage quirk might have not been sufficient to save you.

[w0qj]

Oh, is that how I usually die?

Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:

Depending on your damage profile at that time, this might really have been the case. Maybe you had a damaged CT, the Cipher popped your ST, you took an unlucky overheat damake blow to your damaged CT and it killed you almost instantly. IIRC, by losing your ST you lose 40% of your heatcapacity at once. If you were at 90%, that means your Heat was at least at 45 pts (assuming 10 DHS, no skill nodes, heat capacity of 50) resulting in a drop in capacity down to 30. That would've spiked you up to 150% heat and would deal massive overheat damage really quick. The -15% overheat damage quirk might have not been sufficient to save you.

[Curccu]

Vorpal Puppy, on 16 March 2022 - 08:57 AM, said:

OK, so if it can only take my heat to 90%, one of my STs must have popped but I didn't get the notification before I was dead.

smaller lights at least can pretty much insta pop after losing sidetorso if they were riding heat cap

[martian]

1) Infernos

I am sad that MechWarrior Online lacks Inferno SRMs.

I love Infernos in BattleTech, especially on 'Mechs with multiple SRM ammo bins, so I can switch between Infernos and standard SRM as the situation demands it.

Even the old MechWarrior 2 had them.


2) Plasma weapons

I know that it is probably not going to happen, but I would love to see Plasma Rifle (Inner Sphere) and Plasma Cannon (Clan) added to MechWarrior Online. I think that they could offer some interesting new builds and maybe reinvigorate the gameplay.

[Vorpal Puppy]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:

Depending on your damage profile at that time, this might really have been the case. Maybe you had a damaged CT, the Cipher popped your ST, you took an unlucky overheat damake blow to your damaged CT and it killed you almost instantly. IIRC, by losing your ST you lose 40% of your heatcapacity at once. If you were at 90%, that means your Heat was at least at 45 pts (assuming 10 DHS, no skill nodes, heat capacity of 50) resulting in a drop in capacity down to 30. That would've spiked you up to 150% heat and would deal massive overheat damage really quick. The -15% overheat damage quirk might have not been sufficient to save you.

My build is fully skilled out. It has every heat and cooldown related node in the skill trees. The engine is a clan XL250. I have 4 extra heat sinks, 2 in each torso. It carries 6 tons of ammo - 2 in each leg, 1 in the head, and 1 in the CT. With the ammo skill nodes, I'm just not good enough to survive long enough to burn through more than that much ammo - that's 840 SRMs .

I am sure I was at 90+% heat when the Cipher jumped me.

[JumpingHunter]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 March 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:

Depending on your damage profile at that time, this might really have been the case. Maybe you had a damaged CT, the Cipher popped your ST, you took an unlucky overheat damake blow to your damaged CT and it killed you almost instantly. IIRC, by losing your ST you lose 40% of your heatcapacity at once. If you were at 90%, that means your Heat was at least at 45 pts (assuming 10 DHS, no skill nodes, heat capacity of 50) resulting in a drop in capacity down to 30. That would've spiked you up to 150% heat and would deal massive overheat damage really quick. The -15% overheat damage quirk might have not been sufficient to save you.

Oh my god, thank you for this explaination, even without the initial context knowledge about this mechanic is essential. Would be great if game teached people these unexplained mechanics in a first place, but folks in forums like you are saving the day for now. Thanks a lot!

[PocketYoda]

Gauss, LBX and some what machine guns seem to counter Flamer meme builds.

Edited by PocketYoda, 09 July 2023 - 10:37 PM.

[Squiggy McPew]

If you notice a lot of wallflower energy snipers then switching out to this and sneaking up on them is fun. Just wait till they start firing and filling that heat bar and go for it. Better with a buddy so you can bracket your targets.

fle-fa

[SafeScanner]

nothing quite like cooking another mech would like to see some kind of touch up or touch up for mechs that specilise in using them

[sycocys]

Do flamers cap at 90% if you choose to turn the cap off (override)?

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 10 July 2023 - 04:02 AM, said:

Do flamers cap at 90% if you choose to turn the cap off (override)?

Flamers increase targets heat up to 90% and keep it there, nothing affects that.

[Obelix drives an Atlas]