563 replies to this topic

[Occisor4423]

vulture prime, on 19 March 2022 - 10:39 AM, said:

I like it. I think in 12v12 that if you go down 2 or 3 mechs it is really hard to come back from. In 8v8 play I think the opportunity for a team to pick of a couple mechs at the start is less likely so in 8v8 there is more set up and manuevering before the full blown conflict which seems a little more balanced.

In team games, the more people there are in a team, the smaller the impact one person has on the battle situation, and the larger the impact if there are fewer people.
For 10v10, one person is 10% responsible, but for 100v100, it is 1%.
The burden on the team caused by having an AFKer or DCed on the team in 8v8 is 1.5 times greater than in 12v12.

Edited by Occisor4423, 19 March 2022 - 11:03 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

Okay, after an honest 20+ hours in the last three days of 8v8, and honestly trying to like it, I feel I have more than done my part to help PGI get their stats or whatever, and I am happily walking away from this god-awful mess until the madness ends, for all the reasons I mentioned a couple of days ago. The wife has been on my case to be more involved at home and play less MWO recently, so I'm going to upgrade from 8v8 to scrubbing casserole dishes and cleaning the cat litter box!

Edited by An6ryMan69, 19 March 2022 - 12:21 PM.

[Mechaholics Anonymous]

An6ryMan69, on 19 March 2022 - 11:05 AM, said:

Okay, after an honest 20+ hours in the last three days of 8v8, and honestly trying to like it, I feel I have more than done my part to help PGI get their stats or whatever, and I am happily walking away from this god-awful mess until the madness ends, for all the reasons I mentioned a couple of days ago. The wife has been on my case to be more involved at home and play less MWO recently, so I'm going to upgrade from 8v8 to scrubbing casserole dishes and cleaning cat litter box!

Way to keep your vices in check, and your priorities in order. <.0. If you happen to stream MWO while doing your chores, you might be a Mechaholic. Keep up the good work!

[WarmasterRaptor]

Main thing noticed so far : Matchmaker is drunk when it comes to tonnage balancing XD

It's not rare to see ~5 Assaults in one Teams VS 1 or none in the other.

Easy to determine the outcome here.

[Sneaky Ghillie]

Really like 8v8. Would be great if there was a choice to cue up for 8v8 or 12v12

[Lifeblight]

4-Man groups for 8v8 isn't very good.

[Wolf118]

This mode isn't fun. Half the matches are grossly mismatched on tonnage or groups. Any data PGI collects on this is now skewed because people weren't aware of what this new mode meant. Tactics don't mean anything; it's just the first team that charges cohesively into the enemy that wins.

[Stargazzer811]

Alreech, on 17 March 2022 - 02:09 PM, said:

Sorry, but your post contains everything that makes MWO worse.

MWOs unique selling point is the fact that players don't have to care about their teammates.
Funny, fast matches without the need to do complicated tactical stuff that doesn't work anyway with teams that are set up for one match and disband afterwards.

That's the reason why premade groups should not be part of quickplay: they have unfair advantages like players knowing each other for a long time, speaking the same language and using a private VOIP solution.

Unfair weapons like LRMs that can easily abused by premade players should be removed from the game too, they kill the fun for solo players who don't want to talk to strangers or press R.

And your post points out literally every flaw in the currently player base's logic. This is a team game which means you need tactics and strategy to win. Yes I agree premade's in the same que as solo's is a bad idea, I miss the old premade que and separate solo que. But to say that LRMs are unfair? Are you for real? LRM's are a tactical weapon which exist for a reason, to provide long range damage dealing and fire support. This is their purpose on tabletop, and its their purpose in-game, always has been. Just because you are salty because you bothered to get shredded by an LRM boat does not mean an entire weapons system should be banned.

[Bronze Dragon]

Matches over in 2 minutes win or lose.
Waiting time increased to 5-8 minutes.
Always wildly mismatched.

Super fun. Like waiting in line at Disneyland

[Vamblery]

short matches, less fun, more waiting. I dont like 8v8, 12v12 is much better.
Forget about planning, flanking. its just shooting and fast end.

Edited by Vamblery, 19 March 2022 - 12:41 PM.

[PCHunter]

So many replies and everything I see is already mentioned, but here is my take regardless.

8 v 8 is a great format for teams and/or 3 or 4 man (maybe even 8-man?) groups.
Solo queue with groups in 8-man rarely yields a fair match.
The match becomes a momentum game - the team that scores first kills out of the gate is generally the winner. Come backs we see in 12-man don't seem to be likely.
Playing lights becomes a liability for your team.
The lack of additional players on your team and the battlefield reduces the depth/dimension of play. Also restricts tactical options.
In 12-man, it is possible to have a few separate contests between players on different parts of a map. This is not as likely with 8 fewer players in the match.
The maps seem so much larger with fewer players on them - some of them, vastly so.
Matchmaker doesn't work worth a damn in Soup Queue and it sure as hell doesn't work at all in 8 v 8. There are too many instances of Tier 1 player or weight stacking on teams. I have yet to see a balanced match.
Match scores and damage points are far lower than in 12-man. Kind of makes those gift grinds more difficult.
Most matches are far shorter in duration than in 12 v 12.

Even if groups are omitted from 8-man, I still do not like the loss of tactical/player/mech options.

In short, nice test; however, I am not sure what you guys are testing for. I eagerly look forward to the end of 8 v 8 play.

Edited by PCHunter, 19 March 2022 - 12:46 PM.

[Occisor4423]

Okay, so if PGI were to formally adopt 8v8, here are some of the improvements that I believe would be necessary to make it successful.

1) Align tonnage of both side as much as possible.
2) Align the number of light, middle, heavy and assaults on both teams as much as possible.
3) Reduce the maximum number of people each group up.
4) Strengthen measures and penalties against AFKer and DCed.

Oh, well, the steps they should take to improve 8v8 to make it successful will improve 12v12 either if they do it to 12v12.
Then, let me offer one final improvement.

5) Continue 12v12(performing 1~4 together) .

Edited by Occisor4423, 19 March 2022 - 01:07 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 March 2022 - 08:34 AM, said:

Everybody coming after me over dragging the quitters:

What everybody really wants is an improved matchmaker that takes more into account. Unbalanced matches ruin the game, and 8v8s increase the likelihood of that, BUT with better team balance, they also offer some significant gameplay benefits.

Awww poor Gas Guzzler is still in emo mode or why do you use such a tone and hubris by claiming to know what everybody wants.

Seriously, just accept that it boils down to "taste". Just because you like 8 vs 8 it doesn't mean that others have to. And just because you obviously want 8 vs 8 doesn't mean that it needs to happen. And hey, if a switch to 8 vs 8 occurs, just respect that some players won't play anymore because it isn't their cup of tea. Easy as that.

[Gas Guzzler]

Weeny Machine, on 19 March 2022 - 01:28 PM, said:

Awww poor Gas Guzzler is still in emo mode or why do you use such a tone and hubris by claiming to know what everybody wants.

Seriously, just accept that it boils down to "taste". Just because you like 8 vs 8 it doesn't mean that others have to. And just because you obviously want 8 vs 8 doesn't mean that it needs to happen. And hey, if a switch to 8 vs 8 occurs, just respect that some players won't play anymore because it isn't their cup of tea. Easy as that.

I don't feel strongly either way about wanting 8v8 or 12v12 so stop putting words in my mouth. I'm just looking at it objectively. There are some positive aspects and some negative aspects.

For the 1000th time, my only gripe is the drama and sensationalism on display.

Are you saying you don't want a good matchmaker? That's a weird flex.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 March 2022 - 02:02 PM.

[Dragonfate79]

8v8 is terrible. i will not be playing this weekend it seems.

[ejw0508]

Keep the 8man drops and let groups have their ownQ

[EvangelX]

Light & Medium mechs rule.
Assaults are redundant.
Yes its more intense, but overall this 8v8 sucks for solo o7

Edited by EvangelX, 19 March 2022 - 02:59 PM.

[Fu Sun]

I don't mind 8v8, in fact I think Quick Play should keep doing 8v8 as long as it has 12v12 also (randomly decided between the two). I don't have much experience with other arrangements, but even 4v4 and 16v16 should be experimented with.

People's big objections (at least those that seem valid) are (1) that the matchmaker still gives one team a major tonnage advantage and (2) disconnected players create an even larger advantage.

Disconnected players have always affected game play. There is little the programmers of this humble game can do, they just happen. If they are assaults, people complain more, and some even complain when a light is disco. There is nothing anyone can do about this, sure, report them, good luck finding satisfaction in life.

As for tonnage differences, I have only really noticed this sometimes, and honestly a good player or two can make up for any major weight differences. I think the problem in resolving this issue is that the Quick Play matchmaker has to take into account tier and tons each time, and there is no perfect way to handle both variables while creating matches in a short amount of time.

Thank you, have a nice day, play on (or not until the patch day to insufferable purists ).

[CalicoJackRackham]

I like it.

[amisu]

Best thing that happened to the game. Gameplay way smoother, more enjoyable engagements and less souless insta stomps.

10/10 would redownload for a weekend again.