145 replies to this topic

[silentscout66]

the gates are wide open atm pgi knows full well of the issue supposed fix com ing next week this is because of event and the fact that there no differential between event and quick play as proper testing was not done hence why no sound mm is all screwed up ect

LordNothing, on 27 May 2022 - 11:41 AM, said:

boycott the universe until entropy stops being a thing.

this makes as much sense as the op's boycott. part of the reason the mm sucks is it needs more meat for the grinder. taking away meat is not the answer. if you dont like the game, thats fine, go play something else. but dont try to mess it up for everyone else on the way out.

this isnt about the big guy stomping on the little guy. they cant dictate the skill levels of the available players or set the number of players, or ban anyone who is too good or not good enough. they continue to exist because the few players that remain turn enough profit to keep the servers up and the employees paid. this game is in a precarious situation where any sudden loss of players would probibly push them over the edge or at least put an end to the recent surge in active development. you are looking at stagnation or game death. this is not good for the game.

no its because of event screwing up quick play mm great way to lose players right

[MrMadguy]

silentscout66, on 26 May 2022 - 05:12 AM, said:

as the title says about the only way we will make pgi listen and i suggest all those that are in the same boat as me do the same they want a bigger player base then they shouldnt be changing things like ths as it isnt fun get ting pug stomped by pro tier1 players match after match

I have been boycotting PGI for a long time already. Because these problems started long time ago. I haven't paid anything to them for several years. I have been playing much lesser. But I don't think it's matchmaking problem. It's population problem. Only way to fix it - to implement some radical changes, such as smart MM, that would react to player's bad performance much faster and try to balance teams better in a short term. Or compensations for lower Tier players for playing against higher Tier ones. Such as +X% armor or +Y% rewards.

P.S. I need to change my sig to "Back to Tier 5". It's not problems with my skill. My skill is around 50%. It's constant playing against Tier 1s, that pushes me back further and further, while lower rating doesn't allow me to finally stop it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 27 May 2022 - 09:46 PM.

[RickySpanish]

MrMadguy, on 27 May 2022 - 09:41 PM, said:

I have been boycotting PGI for a long time already. Because these problems started long time ago. I haven't paid anything to them for several years. I have been playing much lesser. But I don't think it's matchmaking problem. It's population problem. Only way to fix it - to implement some radical changes, such as smart MM, that would react to player's bad performance much faster and try to balance teams better in a short term. Or compensations for lower Tier players for playing against higher Tier ones. Such as +X% armor or +Y% rewards.

P.S. I need to change my sig to "Back to Tier 5". It's not problems with my skill. My skill is around 50%. It's constant playing against Tier 1s, that pushes me back further and further, while lower rating doesn't allow me to finally stop it.

The MM also seems to do a poor job of balancing 24 players across teams when it actually finds them. Often it happily stacks solo top 1% players together as there seems to be no regard for 'how tier 1', for example, someone is.

[Bassault]

Novakaine, on 27 May 2022 - 07:31 AM, said:

I watched a guy with his sniper build stand out in the open sniping.
And literally not move while I wrecked his mech with lurms I even stopped to tell him don't just stand there.
While lurmed him to death.
Fighting right next to me were 4 friendly mechs humping the same corner shooting each other more than the opfor.
Matchmaker can't help stupid.

I fought a guy who stood still to aim. He took so long to aim at me, that halfway through pummeling his CT for 10 seconds, I thought I was in training grounds. I was quickly reminded I wasn't when the moment before he died, one of his 5 large lasers spread from my left torso to my right leg. The worst part is that he is only one of many who have been like this.

Edited by I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, 27 May 2022 - 10:20 PM.

[caravann]

The mistake most new drivers do is that they not pushing the pedal all the way down to the metal.
The other drivers are going to pass by and they'll won't win the race.

You have to follow the trail. If they're turning left, you have to turn left.
Otherwise you going to turn right and the other drivers wont' make it.

[MrMadguy]

RickySpanish, on 27 May 2022 - 09:51 PM, said:

The MM also seems to do a poor job of balancing 24 players across teams when it actually finds them. Often it happily stacks solo top 1% players together as there seems to be no regard for 'how tier 1', for example, someone is.

Yeah, sometimes it really seems like one of teams is being simply padded by any players, MM can find at that moment. But I also want to say, that may be it's just hard to balance lower tiers against higher tiers, because skill actually doesn't scale linearly. This is problem, I've been talking for a long time already. It's not simple math, where 2 + 2 = 2 + 2 allows us to assume, that 1 + 3 = 2 + 2. It causes several effects, like 1 becoming just 0 in this condition and all of a sudden 3 > 2 + 2.

Pure math is bad thing. If goal of matchmaking - is to make game fun for players, then may be it's much more simple and more effective to use heuristic approach. If player had 3 bad matches in a row, then may be while matchmaker do ok in long term, but something is wrong in a short term? May be it should adjust quicker to current population situation?

Edited by MrMadguy, 27 May 2022 - 10:57 PM.

[Rondoe]

If it's all the same song,

I'm just enjoying the game, bummed I didn't discover it until last year.

I just enjoy the game. Played table top and those really bad version's of the game back on Pentium computers.

I have fun no matter what, win or lose or whether I charge in all guns blazing or play it safe.

-Rondoe

[MrMadguy]

Rondoe, on 28 May 2022 - 12:45 AM, said:

If it's all the same song,

I'm just enjoying the game, bummed I didn't discover it until last year.

I just enjoy the game. Played table top and those really bad version's of the game back on Pentium computers.

I have fun no matter what, win or lose or whether I charge in all guns blazing or play it safe.

-Rondoe

Of course one can still enjoy this game, if he stops caring about winning and rewards. I cared about it back in old times, so lose streaks were bad for me. This was reason, why I actually hated PVP games. If PVP game is imbalanced and other players are allowed to get fun at your expense, you can't do anything about it. Suffer or quit. Yeah, I've stopped caring about this. Some Tier 1 meta abusers kill me early? May be some of them even think, that it insults me. Some of them may even ego-trip via such seal clubbing. Who cares. Just quit match and start next one. My rating drops and may be some day it will pay off. But there is very important thing. I've lost interest. I'm still here because I'm very purposeful. Other players just quit and find better games. And after all of this devs ask, why players lose interest and quit. They start to try to cure symptoms, while illness itself doesn't go anywhere. They try to make game more "interesting". But things like new skill trees and event queues - are just colorful wrappers around rotten candy. Game itself is almost unplayable. And purpose of any game is about, well, playing it. If it doesn't serve this purpose, then it's pointless.

[C E Dwyer]

This is a dedundant topic talked over and over.
This game could have 10 times the population, and this conversation will still happen.
Games with 20 times the population still have these kind of threads.

Balanced close games in any pvp match up are in the minority

[Nightbird]

C E Dwyer, on 28 May 2022 - 09:47 AM, said:

This is a dedundant topic talked over and over.
This game could have 10 times the population, and this conversation will still happen.
Games with 20 times the population still have these kind of threads.

Balanced close games in any pvp match up are in the minority

What's "redundant" is the fake news that the MM can't be improved upon. There is a limit due to population etc but the current MM is only 25% the quality that is easily possible to implement.

[LordNothing]

improved is one thing. improved enough where the whiners will notice and stop whining, thats the impossible part.

one of the match maker's flaws is that it tries to do everything. match skill, maintain 4444, form quickly enough so that the aging player base doesn't fall asleep in their chair while waiting, etc. if they could improve class balance enough where 4444 doesnt matter, and remove that, then the mm might work better. wlr based psr would be fine and dandy, provided the mm doesn't use the data wrong.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 May 2022 - 05:34 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nightbird, on 28 May 2022 - 05:07 PM, said:

What's "redundant" is the fake news that the MM can't be improved upon. There is a limit due to population etc but the current MM is only 25% the quality that is easily possible to implement.

Okay, I’ll bite… what’s your easy algorithm that would greatly improve it?

[Bulletsponge0]

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 May 2022 - 06:35 PM, said:

Okay, I’ll bite… what’s your easy algorithm that would greatly improve it?

https://mwomercs.com...-maker-summary/

[LordNothing]

i honestly would like to see it run for a week and see what happens. i have my suspicion that it will be a qualitative improvement. quantitatively though i think it will be very marginal.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Bulletsponge0, on 28 May 2022 - 06:53 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...-maker-summary/

Interesting. I'm not sure the overall effect that would have. Currently, if you carry a losing team, your PSR goes up, while that system would have even the MVP of the game lose rank if the other 11 players didn't save the day. in that regard, your overall score is less a function of YOUR performance and more a function of the performance of each collective assortment of pugs that you're matched up with.

Would not, then, the overall effect of that system be to congregate the majority of players to have a similar aggregate W/L score? Star players would get matched with total potatoes to even out the teams, making one or two person carries more common, potentially inhibiting their ability to maintain their currently high W/L ratio.

That would blunt or significantly alter the W/L ratios of folks who currently carry a 3.0 or higher. If so, your aforementioned multivariate analysis MIGHT not hold up due to the new method's effect on this key variable.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 28 May 2022 - 08:55 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

Fights are so fun now, how it was 2 years in my cadet times.

Really all is new, fresh, exciting.

Fast matchmaker.

[MrMadguy]

Bulletsponge0, on 28 May 2022 - 06:53 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...-maker-summary/

Any WLR matchmaking works for Team vs Team only. It's doesn't work for PUGs. As it's already said above, It doesn't distinguish carrying/being carried. Relying on law of big numbers to sort things out - is way too optimistic approach, because law of big numbers works in constant playerbase and "All vs All" situation, while real playerbase constantly fluctuates.

What is needed - smart matchmaker. Of course every time, "smart" world appears anywhere in online games, some players start to get nervous, because usually it means something like "Smart way to pump money from players", like "You get better matchmaking right after donation". We need real smart matchmaker. It should react quicker to current playerbase situation. For example if some player is experiencing 3 match long lose streak - something should be done IMMEDIATELY. Not after hundreds of matches.

Edited by MrMadguy, 29 May 2022 - 01:45 AM.

[Reverend Flashback]

MrMadguy, on 29 May 2022 - 01:45 AM, said:

We need real smart matchmaker. It should react quicker to current playerbase situation. For example if some player is experiencing 3 match long lose streak - something should be done IMMEDIATELY. Not after hundreds of matches.

So, if somone looses 3 times in a row for whatever reason, he or she should get matched in a way that's making it likely to win for that particular player? Sounds terrible.

Maybe some of you should stop caring about their stats.
Imo those are kinda pointless overall and I never look at them in this game.
I've got mechs where I'm dissapointed if I did not deal at least 600-800 dmg that match, and others where I'm happy to go home with 400-500.
Not all mechs are equally competent. But some of the "bad" or hard to use ones are still a lot of fun - even if the result is not that great.

[Revis Volek]

MrMadguy, on 29 May 2022 - 01:45 AM, said:

Any WLR matchmaking works for Team vs Team only. It's doesn't work for PUGs. As it's already said above, It doesn't distinguish carrying/being carried. Relying on law of big numbers to sort things out - is way too optimistic approach, because law of big numbers works in constant playerbase and "All vs All" situation, while real playerbase constantly fluctuates.

What is needed - smart matchmaker. Of course every time, "smart" world appears anywhere in online games, some players start to get nervous, because usually it means something like "Smart way to pump money from players", like "You get better matchmaking right after donation". We need real smart matchmaker. It should react quicker to current playerbase situation. For example if some player is experiencing 3 match long lose streak - something should be done IMMEDIATELY. Not after hundreds of matches.

So you want a REVENGE MM? Sounds like a terrible idea is right.

[Hobbles v]

Imagine grown adults being so butthurt about other people doing better than them in a video game that they want to make everyone else stop playing too. It's childish and pathetic. If you do not enjoy your time playing, simply stop. Don't try to convince others to as well.

The matchmaker is certainly screwy right now and wasn't perfect before. But even with the best possible matchmaker, this is a pvp game. Some people will always be at the bottom of the heap, and most will frequently have to face down superior players. If you want your enemies to always be pylons to shoot down, go play a single player MechWarrior game and beat up on AI.