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I've Got 25Mil Saved And Want My First Assault


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#1 wetstapler

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Posted 15 June 2022 - 09:02 AM

I kinda want a Victor because that's what I use as the lieutenant of my Battletech lance, but he's a bit on the light side. Would that be a bad place to start?
I want to play an engager of some kind. A brawler or a tank to spearhead pushes.

#2 Skydrive

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Posted 15 June 2022 - 10:19 AM

The Atlas K, K3, and RS have the highest potential Armour values. The D-DC and the S are terrific splat variants. The K is the OG AMS Mech. The K3 is great for spooking the enemy by getting to places an Atlas shouldn't thanks to its Jump Jets. The RS is best used with either 4 ER Large Lasers and a Gauss Rifle or 4 Large Pulse Lasers and 2 SRM's, both with a Targeting Computer (bigger with the ER) and a good number of Double Heat Sinks (more with the Pulse). The Fafnir (5 and 5B) are literally Heavy Gauss Rifles with arms and legs. The Annihilator is the slowest Assault, and basically the one generally excused for it, so could keep a 200 STD Engine, putting the tonnage that would of gone into the Engine into Weapons and Armour, and anyone that sees you moving slow will expect you to be able to cause havoc on the enemy team so long as you are protected. The Charger 1A1 is basically a Light Mech... an oversized Light Mech.

#3 The Basilisk

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Posted 15 June 2022 - 11:21 AM

View Postwetstapler, on 15 June 2022 - 09:02 AM, said:

I kinda want a Victor because that's what I use as the lieutenant of my Battletech lance, but he's a bit on the light side. Would that be a bad place to start?
I want to play an engager of some kind. A brawler or a tank to spearhead pushes.


The Victor is hands down by a fair stretch the worst Assault in game on IS side.
It has not enough mobility to pass as an ultra heavy mech, and if you want to make it fast the mandatory XL engine to do so would make it a deathtrap. The low hardpoints make it hard to jumpsnipe in that mech and its geometry leave it quite vulnerable dispite its abundant armor points.
Also you are left to choose between mobility with the firepower of a medium mech or the firepower of a Heavy mech but the speed and size of an assault. It is a moderately good brawler in one on one situations against heavy mechs though.

No if you want to go for REAL Assaults go for the upper end like Atlas, Marauder II, Nightstar, Banshee, Highlander for the IS...maybe Kingcrab if you have some masochistic tendencys. (my favorites are Marodeur II and Nightstar)
If you want to go for Ultra heavy on IS side go for Battlemaster or ... maybe just maybe Zeus if youre a fan.

Regarding your role.

No
Assault
is
made
to
lead
a
push !!!!

Never try something that stupid.

Assaults can weather incredible amounts of STRAY FIRE !!!
Against focused fire of 2 or 3 enemys they are even less survivable than most medium mechs because their hitboxes and mobility almost make sure you will core them out before they can start to react.

Assaults are all about walking with the team trying to keep up and support until the time has come to commit and clear the field with massive alphas cutting through the then weakend armor of your foes.
Assaults in this game play like storm rams...they come in at the end of the siege to open the gate to sack the city.
Timing and Battlefield awareness and having an idea where the enemy will do what and when.

#4 wetstapler

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 07:01 AM

Quote

No
Assault
is
made
to
lead
a
push !!!!


Alright then what is? This has just been based off what I see in my games, it's usually a static line of fire poking from both sides, maybe a couple mediums and lights get caught out, then the assault shows up and the line starts moving. Something is changing the dynamic!

Edit: Quoting is hard

Edited by wetstapler, 16 June 2022 - 07:02 AM.


#5 Duke Falcon

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 09:21 AM

I not sure if an assault as a first mech is a good thing. If I understood correctly you finished cadet time and now wants your own mech... So, assaults are not good for first mechs. Many made the mistake - like I did to - to buy an assault for first mech and learn to regret. You would priority punchbag and lucky if your teammates not hide behind you.

You may better buy a medium or heavy instead. Assaults and lights need experience gained already in other weight classes.

But if you determined about an assault... An Atlas perhaps? Or a Blood Asp (I think it's not exceed the 25M CBs). Victor needs some specific role supported by your team otherwise fall quickly. I bought a KGC-000B first and the first 3-4 weeks of MWO were a nightmare. Now it is a decent one because I learned the basics of mech piloting and the limitation of classes.
My KGC sports double heat-sinks, FF armour, endo-steel internal, 614\614 max armour while armed with 2xRAC2s, 2xLPPCs, 1xMRM40 + AMS. Have certain flaws but the raw firepower could often help. Just do not spearhead pushes with it because insane slow and wide. For start, fire support with RACs + LPPCs, further on clearing with the MRMs. Easy 4-600 dmg per match and if you not rush forth (like I do) you may often survive if your team wins.

But once again: For your very first mech choose a medium or heavy instead of an assault! I recommend the Hellbringer, the most user\player-friendly design in the game.

#6 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 11:20 AM

There's nothing wrong with leading a push in an assault mech. You just have to make sure it really is a push. If you go and nobody follows, your lone mech likely won't be fast enough to make it into cover before losing a side torso.

So a Victor is a risky choice. Lots of arm hard points and a hit box geometry that isn't good for soaking fire. Many assaults have had their armor buffed to account for this, but the victor has not.

That said, you don't have to go with a 100t mech to have a great time as an IS assault. Stalkers mount a ferocious amount of weaponry and don't suck at receiving damage, while Highlanders are super tanky... albeit rare.

But the Awesome, Victor, Zeus, and mauler all have issues with soaking fire. The Battlemaster, Charger, and Hatamoto are a bit short on strengths.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 16 June 2022 - 11:21 AM.


#7 Void Angel

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 02:48 PM

Someone has to lead a push, and that's going to be the Heavies and Assaults.

View Postwetstapler, on 16 June 2022 - 07:01 AM, said:


Alright then what is? This has just been based off what I see in my games, it's usually a static line of fire poking from both sides, maybe a couple mediums and lights get caught out, then the assault shows up and the line starts moving. Something is changing the dynamic!

Edit: Quoting is hard


The misconception with a lot of newbie Assault pilots is that they're expected to soak up damage to close with the enemy at long range. This simply isn't the case; if you expose yourself poorly, you'll simply get smashed in a hurry. A more experienced Assault pilot will start to think in terms of combat presence: nobody wants to play ro-sham-bo with an Assault, even other Assault drivers. But true mastery of the weight class lies in learning how and when to leave cover and fight - to go for a hard engage.

As the match progresses, people on both sides will start to lose armor; it's an attrition game. An Assault brawler (which is what we're talking about here with "leading the push,") will die fast if he tries to bull rush the whole enemy team over open ground, or when his team isn't set to back him. But I can and have walked my Atlas through the main body of the enemy team, and even though I might have less than half a 'mech after doing that, I still turned around and went back in. Because nothing takes a licking and keeps on kicking quite like an Atlas. You can lead a push with an Assault, and with certain builds and chassis, you should - but knowing when to do that is something of an art.

I'd recommend picking an Assault that is effectively a firepower platform, and then use that chassis to practice your positioning close to the front. Don't use the Victor - it was once top-tier, but a LOT of things have changed since then. I haven't played a lot of Assaults since the balance changes, so others could probably advise you better, but I'd use the Stalker, due to the versatility of its loadouts and high weapon hardpoints on the "arms."

Edited by Void Angel, 16 June 2022 - 03:26 PM.


#8 w0qj

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 04:25 PM

+1
I also second Duke Falcon's suggestion of buying Assault mech slightly later...

0. May I suggest you buy Heavy mech at 50% Off (see below).
By the time you've leveled up your Heavy mech, you should have enough CBills to buy Assault, and you mostly likely would have better idea of what Assault mech you want by then (Assault gun barrel attention time on the receiving end!).

Oh, and avoid XL Engine for now; it's a death trap for MWO new players.

1. Choose a Roughneck which is an IS Heavy mech; it's basically a mini version of Atlas assault mech.
Tough armor, relatively more agile for you to get out of positioning mistakes hopefully!
It's a preview of what IS Assault mech (especially Atlas) would be like.

2. Other IS Heavy mech suggestions (you seem to want IS side mechs):

2a. Warhammer (mostly 50% Off sale for 7 days as of this writing):
WHM-6R or WHM-BW hero mech: Ballistic LT/RT and some backup weapons. LE Engine for <64kph + durability.
If you use LE Engine & strip away armor from both arms, get BIG LE Engine for 75kph! XL Engine not recommended for those newer to MWO.

WHM-9D: agile PPC boat or longer range laser vomit.

WHM-7S: +40% velocity quirk for PPC or missile boating!

2b. Grasshopper GHR-5H for PPC/Laser vomit + JJ. Good for both Quick Play & Faction Play!
(mostly 50% Off sale for 7 days as of this writing)

2c. Black Knight BL-6B-KNT: powerful laser vomit, albeit with no JJ.
(mostly 50% Off sale for 7 days as of this writing)

Do have fun choosing your mech!!


View PostDuke Falcon, on 16 June 2022 - 09:21 AM, said:

I not sure if an assault as a first mech is a good thing. If I understood correctly you finished cadet time and now wants your own mech... So, assaults are not good for first mechs. Many made the mistake - like I did to - to buy an assault for first mech and learn to regret. You would priority punchbag and lucky if your teammates not hide behind you.

You may better buy a medium or heavy instead. Assaults and lights need experience gained already in other weight classes.
...

Edited by w0qj, 16 June 2022 - 09:51 PM.


#9 wetstapler

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Posted 17 June 2022 - 03:00 PM

Quote

I not sure if an assault as a first mech is a good thing. If I understood correctly you finished cadet time and now wants your own mech... So, assaults are not good for first mechs.


Incorrect, this will be my 5th mech. I have 2 lights and 2 mediums, and I typically play mobile hit-and-run builds and wanted something that's the exact opposite so started saving up a larger amount of c-bills to afford it.


Quote

May I suggest you buy Heavy mech at 50% Off (see below).


Heavies are on sale, but every time I hover the quickplay button the vast majority of people queuing are also doing heavies, so I don't want to get a mech that'll give me huge wait times just to get a match.

Quote

Oh, and avoid XL Engine for now;


I am familiar with torso twisting, though a big slow assault might make it harder so I'll stick to LEs like you say, thanks.

#10 Void Angel

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Posted 17 June 2022 - 05:21 PM

Most Inner Sphere Assault builds can't support an XL, period. You just take too much damage, aimed at giant hit boxes, for it to be worthwhile, especially now that Light Fusion engines are a thing.

View Postwetstapler, on 17 June 2022 - 03:00 PM, said:

Heavies are on sale, but every time I hover the quickplay button the vast majority of people queuing are also doing heavies, so I don't want to get a mech that'll give me huge wait times just to get a match.


Well, think about it this way: there's probably a reason players are taking heavies in such high proportions. It might be a current sale or event, or that Heavies are in a good place right now in regard to balance, or a combination of factors. I just did a couple of matches starting at 1730 PST, with the Heavy Queue at 40 and 43%. Time to get a match was 25 and 36 seconds, so not that bad of a wait if you're getting a high-performing mech chassis out of it. After that, I went with Lights, and had one instant-queue, and one 31-second wait. So your actual wait times depend on how fast the queue is popping, and when matches are actually going live in the matchmaker. My conclusion: don't base your choice of which 'mech to buy on the queue percentages - go with one that'll be effective at what you want.

#11 Sebastyan Black

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Posted 18 June 2022 - 10:37 PM

Stalker 3FB with 6 LL anyone? Can poke over hills with the relative high arm mounts, got ECM, can take a beating if you wiggle your massive nose, okay speed, can alpha twice before you have to wait to cool down. (with skills).

#12 Void Angel

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Posted 19 June 2022 - 11:46 PM

Depending on the variant, the Stalker can be configured for long-range, middle-range, and close range firepower, and could be a great learning 'mech for that reason. You can set it up as an ERLL/ERPPC fire support build, a LPL/LL mid-range poke build, or a short-ranged attacker with SRMs and ERML/ML... something like that. The purpose of the last build should be to prowl the edges of a brawl instead of plunging in - the Stalker (and similarly-shaped 'mechs) is rapidly crippled from the side, but spreads damage very well from the front. Just make sure you're wiggling your nose a bit, rather than twisting your toso, if that makes sense.

My only reservation is that I haven't seen many Stalkers out there, but then, there's a lot of chassis to choose from now.

#13 Sebastyan Black

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 05:53 AM

View PostVoid Angel, on 19 June 2022 - 11:46 PM, said:


My only reservation is that I haven't seen many Stalkers out there, but then, there's a lot of chassis to choose from now.

TTB and Baradul haven't done a Stalker video in quite some time it seems. Posted Image Posted Image

#14 Skydrive

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 10:09 AM

The Stalkers can be nice, but their Torso Twist SUCKS. I run my 3FB with ECM, 2 ALRM20's, 4 ER Medium Lasers in the Arms and 2 Medium Lasers in the Side Torso's, allowing me to deal decent damage both directly and indirectly while providing ECM. I would LOVE to swap the 2 Medium Lasers with Small Pulse Lasers for the purpose of fending off Light Mechs, but as I said, the Torso Twist SUCKS, wouldn't be able to keep track of the Light sufficiently. If you go with a Stalker, got to make certain you stick with the team, which is always harder for an Assault thanks to NASCAR mentality.

Then again, you want something that can Brawl, at the forefront. As I've said, for the part of being a Tank, probably go Atlas. You can push as a Stalker, but in those cases you would need to be extra reliant on your team to keep enemy mechs from shooting at your sides, unlike an Annihilator or a Fafnir.

#15 Sebastyan Black

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Posted 21 June 2022 - 10:30 PM

View PostSkydrive, on 20 June 2022 - 10:09 AM, said:

The Stalkers can be nice, but their Torso Twist SUCKS. I run my 3FB with ECM, 2 ALRM20's, 4 ER Medium Lasers in the Arms and 2 Medium Lasers in the Side Torso's, allowing me to deal decent damage both directly and indirectly while providing ECM.

In the end, you are running 6 Medium Lasers in a 85 ton assault mech, since you don't have a tag.

#16 Void Angel

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Posted 22 June 2022 - 02:19 AM

The Stalkers all have an 85 degree range, which is on the low side for an Assault (Atlases have 115, on the higher end) - and no lateral range of arm motion at all. But that's ok, because the Stalker isn't a brawler, and doesn't need a large twist range anyway.

The Stalkers are designed to be a firepower support platform. They're not meant to get in amongst the enemy and cause havok, but to maneuver to support teammates with direct or indirect fires. So whether your Stalker is an LRM platform or a knife-range LRM brawler, its job isn't to wade into the fray, but to stalk (tee-hee) the edges of a fight and pour firepower into it.

The reason for this isn't it's torso twist range - it's the 'mech's architecture. A Stalker looks a little like someone cut the back half off of a blimp, added legs, and filled it with battlemech components. It presents a small front-on silhouette for its size, but a huge cross-section from the left or right - and virtually all of that side view, is side torso. So from the front a Stalker pilot can wiggle their nose at incoming fire and spread damage across all its torsos, but if enemies get beside it (or it twists too far,) you lose half a 'mech in a hurry.

Edited by Void Angel, 22 June 2022 - 02:25 AM.


#17 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 22 June 2022 - 09:11 AM

View PostSebastyan Black, on 21 June 2022 - 10:30 PM, said:

In the end, you are running 6 Medium Lasers in a 85 ton assault mech, since you don't have a tag.


Disagree. One does not need a tag if one is using LRMs at medium laser ranges because lock on time is a function of (range to target) divided by (max sensor range). Try it. Shoot the red with lazors, that locks the target nice and quick, then pump missiles into the hole you just made. try it.

#18 Skydrive

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Posted 22 June 2022 - 08:38 PM

I think we can sum it up to, don't get a Stalker right now, since it is NOT really one for Brawling, which the OP wants, and start mentioning other Assault mechs, and why they would be good for Brawling.

#19 Sebastyan Black

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Posted 22 June 2022 - 11:39 PM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 22 June 2022 - 09:11 AM, said:

Disagree. One does not need a tag if one is using LRMs at medium laser ranges because lock on time is a function of (range to target) divided by (max sensor range). Try it. Shoot the red with lazors, that locks the target nice and quick, then pump missiles into the hole you just made. try it.

If you get that close to my LRM mech, I dumbfire at you, but in the end that just means I am out of position when I have to do that with my main weapon.

If I want to brawl in an assault, I take an Atlas, but I am not the biggest fan of brawling in the first place.

#20 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 23 June 2022 - 05:55 AM

View PostSebastyan Black, on 22 June 2022 - 11:39 PM, said:

If you get that close to my LRM mech, I dumbfire at you, but in the end that just means I am out of position when I have to do that with my main weapon.


‘It’s not out of position if you’re doing it on purpose. Check out this Highlander. It’s the mech I have the most drops in, and the best stats. It’s a beast designed to fight at 200-500 meters but also to rain death on the way.

https://mwo.nav-alph...324d13_HGN-733P





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