80 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

MPhoenix, on 21 June 2022 - 01:51 PM, said:

That is one of the most amazing examples of simultaneously missing the point completely while at the same time making the point exactly.

To see such diametrically differing aspects in one singular post is incredibly rare and for it to be so unintentional, wow.

don't bother with MWO because sometimes a scary light gets close and it's too much for my faint heart to handle

[MPhoenix]

Meep Meep, on 21 June 2022 - 02:32 PM, said:

So you tell them not to bother with mwo because its not a copypasta of bt mechanics? Its a real time first person shooter not a turn based dice roller? There isn't any effective way to port over dice roll mechanics to real time mechanics and pgi wasted years of balance passes trying to wedge the tt bt ruleset into the game and failed miserably. Cauldron has the right idea in that this is a bt themed game and should be balanced as such?

Again, off the mark on my point but at least it wasn't a drive by snide remark.

You will note at no point in any post in this thread did I address game mechanics, I said THIS THREAD, not MG's, lights or anything else.

there are several topics that when brought up bring out the same cadre of members whose only interest is in being insulting, demeaning, dismissive and derogatory towards anyone holding a viewpoint or opinion other than their own.

it's not the game mechanics or problems with a specific weapon system that make this game toxic it's a segment of the community that can not address certain topics without becoming frankly juvenile.

The responses in this thread are the point, not machine guns. MG's are simply an example, I see comments frequently in other media addressing concern over MG's; YouTube comments, Twitch, reddit, etc. so obviously there is a portion of the player base that sees it as a concern. There are other topics that are treated similarly, this topic is just an example.

When for example machine guns are discussed elsewhere it is discussed, here the mere mention of machine guns is like a clarion call for dogpiling and crapping on other members for daring to voice a concern.

So yes pattonesque, you not only completely missed the point your snide remarks and drive by attempts to be clever perfectly exemplified the toxicity that is the reason I tell people not to bother.

The game is fun, the community could be far better.

Edited by MPhoenix, 21 June 2022 - 10:19 PM.

[caravann]

I'm here to fight the Light Mech as well.

I got this big gun and I keep shooting at it until it falls down.

[pattonesque]

MPhoenix, on 21 June 2022 - 10:18 PM, said:

So yes pattonesque, you not only completely missed the point your snide remarks and drive by attempts to be clever perfectly exemplified the toxicity that is the reason I tell people not to bother.

The game is fun, the community could be far better.

plenty of valid concerns out there, but frankly the way of the mechdad is like so:

"I just got killed by X, X is OP and therefore must be nerfed"

"Have you tried doing A, B, or C to combat X?"

"No, and now I'm angry at you"

It's a fascinating mentality -- immediate surrender at even the slightest adversity and hostility to the concept of personal betterment.

[MPhoenix]

pattonesque, on 22 June 2022 - 10:02 AM, said:

plenty of valid concerns out there, but frankly the way of the mechdad is like so:

"I just got killed by X, X is OP and therefore must be nerfed"

"Have you tried doing A, B, or C to combat X?"

"No, and now I'm angry at you"

It's a fascinating mentality -- immediate surrender at even the slightest adversity and hostility to the concept of personal betterment.

Wow, you are actively working to fail to understand that game mechanics have nothing to do with what I am discussing.
That is absolutely fascinating, so much effort invested in a completely irrelevant topic.

I do find it amusing that you bring up 'personal betterment' but when confronted with your own predilection for acerbic comments you not only ignore it but try to redirect the conversation back to the same irrelevant topic.

By all means, please reply as usual. This is becoming interesting and I have begun to formulate a theory that will be confirmed if your reply is in the form I suspect it will be.

[pattonesque]

MPhoenix, on 22 June 2022 - 10:26 AM, said:

Wow, you are actively working to fail to understand that game mechanics have nothing to do with what I am discussing.
That is absolutely fascinating, so much effort invested in a completely irrelevant topic.

I do find it amusing that you bring up 'personal betterment' but when confronted with your own predilection for acerbic comments you not only ignore it but try to redirect the conversation back to the same irrelevant topic.

By all means, please reply as usual. This is becoming interesting and I have begun to formulate a theory that will be confirmed if your reply is in the form I suspect it will be.

I think it's very interesting that you dissuade your friends (?) from playing a game because there's competition. For the most part I enjoy the challenge and am happy to help folks get better with what limited expertise I have. The friction comes in when you see mechdads wail and howl and clothe themselves in invented persecution when confronted with the slightest bit of adversity.

On top of that, have you seen the communities for other games? This one's crazy polite in comparison.

[Nightbird]

If some anonymous disagreement is able to ruin your online experience, then the 21th century is not your century.

[MPhoenix]

pattonesque, on 22 June 2022 - 10:48 AM, said:

I think it's very interesting that you dissuade your friends (?) from playing a game because there's competition.
Okay let's recap, did I say anything about competition or did I say the community was a problem?
Once more you're delving in to your own issues not the topic at hand.
I dissuade my friends from becoming involved because I like my friends and try not to introduce them in to hostile or toxic environments


On top of that, have you seen the communities for other games? This one's crazy polite in comparison.

I have not only seen them I've run them going back to the MUD games.
Trust me, MWO is far from my first rodeo.

Nightbird, on 22 June 2022 - 10:55 AM, said:

If some anonymous disagreement is able to ruin your online experience, then the 21th century is not your century.

LOL! You haven't the slightest idea...

[pattonesque]

mmm, "toxic or hostile environment" sure sounds like a description of a community doesn't it

[Vonbach]

pattonesque, on 22 June 2022 - 11:32 AM, said:

mmm, "toxic or hostile environment" sure sounds like a description of a community doesn't it

Only you really

[pattonesque]

Vonbach, on 22 June 2022 - 11:35 AM, said:

Only you really

Oh come on there’s way more toxic folks here than me! Also remember when you said “light player detected” to me and not only were they my least-played class but you play them more often than I do, percentage-wise?

[feeWAIVER]

To be fair, the topic is machine guns and light mechs, not patton's attitude.

[Vonbach]

Machine guns are just obnoxious because they shouldn't have even been in the original game. Its a stupid idea that a machine gun able to damage a armored vehicle at all.
Light mechs are also obnoxious because of the combination of hit boxes and lag that makes them far more durable than they should be. Like when a two friends of mine both in assults opened up on a flea or something only to have it just stare at them and just run off like it never happened.

Edited by Vonbach, 22 June 2022 - 12:16 PM.

[pattonesque]

Vonbach, on 22 June 2022 - 12:15 PM, said:

Machine guns are just obnoxious because they shouldn't have even been in the original game. Its a stupid idea that a machine gun able to damage a armored vehicle at all.
Light mechs are also obnoxious because of the combination of hit boxes and lag that makes them far more durable than they should be. Like when a two friends of mine both in assults opened up on a flea or something only to have it just stare at them and just run off like it never happened.

a. are machine guns mounted on giant robots in the future more similar to something a modern-day infantryman would carry, or are they maybe slightly larger and more powerful

b. I believe you when you said your friends in assaults fired at a flea. I do not particularly believe they landed even 10% of their damage on a single component.

[Kanil]

pattonesque, on 22 June 2022 - 11:52 AM, said:

Oh come on there’s way more toxic folks here than me!

Reporting in for the toxicity check.

I mean cmon, the OP literally says we should buff the strongest, best performing class in the game. His subsequent replies have offered no elaboration on why this won't make balance even worse. I don't think pushing back against these sorts of posts is a unique feature of the MWO community.

[Vonbach]

pattonesque, on 22 June 2022 - 12:29 PM, said:

a. are machine guns mounted on giant robots in the future more similar to something a modern-day infantryman would carry, or are they maybe slightly larger and more powerful

Unless your using 120mm plus on a tank all you will do is scratch the paint. The idea of a machine gun doing anything to a tank is laughable. The only reason the A10's 30mm gatling cannon does anything at all to a tank is its firing at the top armor of a tank. Armor isn't ablative like in battletech a round either penetrates or it doesn't.
As for the second point of damage not registering on lights I'd believe it because I've had it happen to me. I used to play scouting missions and I stopped using LBX autocannons because I'd plaster them with repeated point blank shots and watch them simply run off.

[Knownswift]

"Modern BattleMech and vehicle armor plating was originally introduced in 2470 by the Terran Hegemony[1]. In the BattleTech universe, armor is ablative in nature. This means that it is generally destroyed or blown off when hit, but in the process of doing so, it absorbs enormous energies, protecting the unit it is mounted on. While powerful blows will still rock a vehicle, there will be little, if any, internal damage as long as armor plating still remains. Armor-piercing rounds do exist for certain weapons, but they require a higher technology level and cost more. As a result, destroying a 'Mech requires either immense firepower, concentrated fire on a vulnerable location, or a lucky hit."


I think the point which many people confuse here is that they believe the entire light mech should be a vulnerable location, and that all hits should be lucky. Either way, it seems like big machine guns probably damage space robot armor despite also being really good at turning infantry into pulp.

Someone might correct me, but I don't think there is anything that could be played in scouting that caries a worthwhile amount of LB10 while retaining the agility necessary to mitigate a smoke dive.

The underlying issue is that the critical hit system in this game is not fun. It is literally never fun to get equipment scraped due to a random event. I'd just as soon as trade all the extra crit damage out of MGs for flat DPS and tune from there.[/color]

Edited by Knownswift, 22 June 2022 - 01:37 PM.

[YueFei]

Vonbach, on 22 June 2022 - 01:16 PM, said:

Unless your using 120mm plus on a tank all you will do is scratch the paint. The idea of a machine gun doing anything to a tank is laughable. The only reason the A10's 30mm gatling cannon does anything at all to a tank is its firing at the top armor of a tank. Armor isn't ablative like in battletech a round either penetrates or it doesn't.
As for the second point of damage not registering on lights I'd believe it because I've had it happen to me. I used to play scouting missions and I stopped using LBX autocannons because I'd plaster them with repeated point blank shots and watch them simply run off.

Armor isn't all or nothing, and repeated hits can degrade it. We have footage from the current (real-life) war where an IFV's 30mm autocannon penetrates an MBT's side armor at close range with repeated hits and destroys it. Range matters quite a bit.

The MWO forums isn't the place to lay out a long post going into the nitty gritty of real-life ballistics and armor penetration, but suffice to say that it isn't as simple as you're making it out to be.

[Nightbird]

Most MG kills are to the back which is like the top of a tank anyways, the front is targeted only when it is already opened by someone else as otherwise it takes too long and you have to expend too much of your limited ammo.

From every point of view, it's like the GAU-8.

[Lord Sevenous]

People this is Battletech logic...
A half ton MG (roughly the weight of an GAU-8) that can hurt armored ordinance is atleast more realistic than an AC 20 that has a max range shorter than 800m...