67 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

I've just bought the Stalker Misery hero mech, and having a great time with it!
As an Assault/Heavy pilot, I was wondering what took me so long (2 years) to get this gem of a Hero mech

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I've bought almost all of the Assault Hero mechs in the past 2 years!

If MWO makes Hero mechs just slightly better than the best of its CBills equivalent, I'm willing to buy even more of the Heavy Hero mechs

(You can refer to our DWF-UV vs DWF-A example on page 1 of this page as an example, where I'm willing to buy two additional DWF-UV for gaming QoL. fyi, I already have 2x DWF-UV in my mech stable.)

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Also:
Recently I've bought the NTG-Prime(S) which just got +5% Heat Dissipation Center Torso, which is now better than the NTG Jade Kit Hero mech (which has +5% Range in Center Torso ???).

Whilst I'm probably one of the few who bought NTG-Prime(S) with real money, I also wonder how many folks would go and spend $$ to buy NTG-Prime(S), and not the CBills version of NTG-Prime which is for free virtual currency ?

Edit:
By simply adding any one of below CT quirks would entice me to buy more additional NTG Jade Kite Hero mechs: -2.5% Heat, or +2.5% Velocity, or +2.5% Cooldown, or -2.5% Heat Dissipation.
And please *do*not* do +2.5% Range similar to BAS-Rancor or Night Gyr Jade Kit hero mech which is a CT quirk disaster! I have both of these Hero mechs too).

==>CT hardpoint counts as a 2.5% quirk also (see above discussion on DWF-UV vs DWF-A quirks for CT).

Edited by w0qj, 26 June 2022 - 03:12 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Off the top of my head..

Vulture heroes are pretty lackluster well tbh all vultures are..

Fafnir hero is a mess..

Orion hero needs help

Plethora of medium and light heroes..

[Gideon Bravor]

Bamboozle Gold, on 26 June 2022 - 12:11 PM, said:

Same here. I tried so hard but it just never clicked for me. IV4, it's fine but the Hatamoto 28TR just feels better in every way.

From the Solaris 7 pack I feel like Griffin Sparky, Rifleman Dad Breaker, Mad Dog Revenant, Firestorm and Banshee Siren are all pretty lackluster. I honestly don't know what to give them though. There's so many mechs and so many variants in the game already, not many niches remain unexplored.

But then the Charger 1A1 was like something completely different. It's not a great mech but it's a fun mech. Maybe the not best in class heroes could get similar insane buffs for a single weapon system.

I like the Assassin DD. It took some time finding the right weapon balance for my play style (it's all close range now), but it's remarkably resilient for a 40 tonner, and the jump agility is enough to get you out of tight spots.

I also use the Charger-1A1, and, great as those small laser quirks are, I don't think that kind of buff would work on any other weapon system. It'd be ridiculously OP. The only thing that balances the scale of the bonuses are the range and damage limitations of small lasers (including ER).

It also takes a certain kind of mindset to use the Charger well. I have good days and bad days with it, for reasons I can't figure out.

[Meep Meep]

Skydrive, on 25 June 2022 - 09:25 AM, said:

I have said this many times. The Commando Death's Knell needs a buff. This Commando has the lowest firepower of all of the Commando's due to a lack of Missile Hardpoints, possessing only the Four Energy Hardpoints (and an AMS Hardpoint if deemed necessary to be pointed out). Lower its max Engine rating and give it a Speed Quirk to compensate, allowing it to move as fast as before, while taking heavier Weapons (at least Four Medium Pulse Lasers). Give it some Energy Cooldown and/or Duration Quirks, something to get it up there. Heck, a -100% Crit Chance Receiving Quirk would be fine, I mean, it would be humorous, protecting its Structure from Machine Guns, but wouldn't make THAT much of a difference considering its Structure is still that of a Light Mech.

I agree with all of that except for the can't do medium pulses.

Wubwubwub

Tanky as hell after armor nodes and already good heat management so you can invest more in range and cooldown and speed tweak.

Its actually not half bad with er meds either as that lets you run max engine so you are quite zippy after speed tweak and can flank and skirmish to your hearts delight.

Going Commando

[C E Dwyer]

Peple still claim this game is pay to win, because of the hero mechs...

Seems a credit bonus is pay to win, but now on to the practical side..

Some will remember pop tarting Highlanders, rapidly being replaced by Pop tarting Dragon slayers, which lead to the power up charge being added to try tame them, then finally, making Jump jets so useless, you'd struggle to clear a garden fence.

Instantly the DS went from game breaking good, to utter trash.

The scorch is a very powerful mech, it's only draw back is the games current meta favoring long range builds, over pure brawl.
In situations where you can close the range safely it's still devastating.

The new Crusader hero, a very powerful mech at extreme close range, with even more range limitations than the scorch. I'm sure it will end up a MRM, or LRM build, but that's a waste of it's potential.

It's a pain when your favorite mech Hero is a Dud, mine happens to be the victor, Its a mech hardly used now due to the massive alpha, and dps other chasis, and the DS is the worse, because of horrible hard point position, there are even much better pop tarts in town.

I don't think there is an effective way of making certain mechs viable let alone some of the hero's of the bad chasis viable, without some pretty major quirk buffs..

Heat neutral mech with rapid weapon cool down, for low hard points, on low mounts, and poor dispersion ?

[vonJerg]

C E Dwyer, on 27 June 2022 - 02:43 AM, said:

It's a pain when your favorite mech Hero is a Dud, mine happens to be the victor, Its a mech hardly used now due to the massive alpha, and dps other chasis, and the DS is the worse, because of horrible hard point position, there are even much better pop tarts in town.

The F are you talking about?!?!?!?! Dragon Slayer is great poptart, the flying Awesome. 3x HPPCs without ghost heat, big XL engine, poetry in motion baby. Great fun to be had. Just make sure they do not get you through your Achilles heel, 90m min range. But, you know how they say, Who Dares Wins.

[CFC Conky]

Bamboozle Gold, on 26 June 2022 - 12:11 PM, said:

Same here. I tried so hard but it just never clicked for me. IV4, it's fine but the Hatamoto 28TR just feels better in every way.

From the Solaris 7 pack I feel like Griffin Sparky, Rifleman Dad Breaker, Mad Dog Revenant, Firestorm and Banshee Siren are all pretty lackluster. I honestly don't know what to give them though. There's so many mechs and so many variants in the game already, not many niches remain unexplored.

But then the Charger 1A1 was like something completely different. It's not a great mech but it's a fun mech. Maybe the not best in class heroes could get similar insane buffs for a single weapon system.

Another mech that I feel like got just the buffs it needed is the Executioner C. You get 3 weapon systems in the set of 8, but they're all glorious.

Imo, it’s not so much the Solaris Pack mechs being lacklustre, but rather they’ve been surpassed by other rides. Both Griffin hero mechs could use a mobility boost but otherwise are decent. The Dao Breaker has a laser HSL+1 quirk and is dangerous as a large laser boat. The Firestorm is basically another Ember, both dangerous light mechs.

Power creep is a thing in this game, hard to avoid with all the different rides available and new mechs have to have something extra to make them attractive for purchase.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

CFC Conky, on 27 June 2022 - 05:22 AM, said:

Imo, it’s not so much the Solaris Pack mechs being lacklustre, but rather they’ve been surpassed by other rides. Both Griffin hero mechs could use a mobility boost but otherwise are decent. The Dao Breaker has a laser HSL+1 quirk and is dangerous as a large laser boat. The Firestorm is basically another Ember, both dangerous light mechs.

Power creep is a thing in this game, hard to avoid with all the different rides available and new mechs have to have something extra to make them attractive for purchase.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

for some reason i find the firestorm is significantly less good than the ember. the firestorm is the worst hero i got. its maybe the 7th worst mech including non-heroes.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 June 2022 - 04:04 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

LordNothing, on 27 June 2022 - 04:01 PM, said:

for some reason i find the firestorm is significantly less good than the ember. the firestorm is the worst hero i got. its maybe the 7th worst mech including non-heroes.

I'd put my Grid Iron and my La Malinche on that list too. Each of those mechs does one thing, and its not the best thing. At least I try to USE my Sparky. Dies a lot because of Griffin size and hit boxes, but he does get out.

[ThreeStooges]

No one is out rushing to get the ansi or huggin half off. Some mechs are much worse than others even if they are a hero.

[LordNothing]

my la malinche is actually registering slightly above average. granted i spent a lot of time in banshees in the early days so i knew how to play one. here are all my heroes and their brownie points rating:

BOLT 1.85
ALPHA 1.48
ULTRAVIOLET 1.47
JADE KITE 1.45
PRIDE 1.40
VANGUARD 1.30
ANANSI 1.29
K-9 1.27
MAUL 1.26
AMBUSH 1.22
RANCOR 1.21
BLOOD KIT 1.19
SABRE 1.18
SLEIPNIR 1.18
SCORCH 1.17
GHILLIE 1.16
BLACK WIDOW 1.14
ILYA MUROMETS 1.13
BOILER 1.13
KATANA KAT 1.12
RAINBOW CROW 1.11
SHARD 1.11
VIRAGO 1.10
BANDIT 1.09
LA MALINCHE 1.08
POWERHOUSE 1.08
DEATHSTRIKE 1.05
MISERY 1.04
BLUDGEON 1.04
GRINNER 1.03
TOP DOG 1.02
QUARANTINE 1.02
SEKHMET 1.00
THE DEATH'S KNELL 0.99
HIGH ROLLER 0.97
KAIJU 0.97
BROADSIDE 0.97
SKOKOMISH 0.96
FIREBRAND 0.95
CIPHER 0.95
IV-FOUR 0.92
YEN-LO-WANG 0.92
CHERBI 0.91
STREET CLEANER 0.90
NANUQ 0.90
EBON DRAGOON 0.85
LACERATOR 0.85
HI THERE! 0.85
FLAME 0.85
THE GRAY DEATH 0.84
LEGEND-KILLER 0.84
PAKHET 0.84
OXIDE 0.84
FURY 0.82
DARKDEATH 0.82
GRID IRON 0.82
CINDER 0.82
EMBER 0.81
ROMEO 5000 0.79
HANGOVER 0.78
MJÖLNIR 0.77
MEDUSA 0.77
BELIAL 0.76
HUGINN 0.70
FLORENTINE 0.70
PURIFIER 0.70
THE ARROW 0.68
BLOOD ADDER 0.67
PIRATES' BANE 0.67
FIRESTORM 0.50

higher number = better. value of 1.0 is average.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2022 - 06:06 PM, said:

No, special and hero variants should be compared within their chassis. If you buff a hero to be stronger than the best c-bill variant, there will be valid p2w complaints.

not arguing that point. but when building a drop deck for example, im going to prioritize mechs with higher brownie points (sometimes thats a hero). my spreadsheet fu is not strong enough to figure out how mechs compare to other mechs within its chassis lineup. i usually have to look that up manually.

[Meep Meep]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2022 - 06:07 PM, said:

No, special and hero variants should be compared within their chassis. If you buff a hero to be stronger than the best c-bill variant, there will be valid p2w complaints.

When MWO first came out? Sure. Now after pretty much most long term players already have most of them and the fact the new owners are showering us with free MC? It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if they made every single hero just a teensy bit better than the best cbill variant. They are supposed to be Heroes of the line right? At this point we the players need to realize that if we want this game to keep rolling along so we can keep dropping in our favorite mechs that the new owners are going to need some measure of income to do it. Heroes that are the best of any particular line would go a long way to entice new players to drop a bit of cash especially during sales.

[w0qj]

I personally feel that MWO new mech packs going forward should be adjusted to:
50% Hero mech packs (similar to Rivals Hero Pack), and
50% Booster Packs (similar to Warden/Stryker/Hunter/Predator/Bloodname where there Special Vairant + Standard Variant).

The former needs to be bought as usual ($$ or MC).
The latter eventually has free virtual CBills equivalent that all players can access, so they won't feel left out...

Edited by w0qj, 27 June 2022 - 07:08 PM.

[Nightbird]

Meep Meep, on 27 June 2022 - 06:32 PM, said:

When MWO first came out? Sure. Now after pretty much most long term players already have most of them and the fact the new owners are showering us with free MC? It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if they made every single hero just a teensy bit better than the best cbill variant. They are supposed to be Heroes of the line right? At this point we the players need to realize that if we want this game to keep rolling along so we can keep dropping in our favorite mechs that the new owners are going to need some measure of income to do it. Heroes that are the best of any particular line would go a long way to entice new players to drop a bit of cash especially during sales.

As a long term player owning most hero mechs, it sounds like a good deal to me. But 10% of the accounts in every given month is new, so this would definitely be p2w for those who haven't had time to earn all the free MC.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

[Meep Meep]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2022 - 07:12 PM, said:

As a long term player owning most hero mechs, it sounds like a good deal to me. But 10% of the accounts in every given month is new, so this would definitely be p2w for those who haven't had time to earn all the free MC.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

It can't be p2w if they keep giving out free MC though. More like pay to not wait so long for a sale to maximize your free MC purchases? Seems like a pretty good enticement to keep new pilots playing to stack up the free MC? By your standard early adopter mech packs for $$ are p2w because everyone else has to wait for them to be in the store for cbills and mc?

[Nightbird]

Meep Meep, on 27 June 2022 - 07:19 PM, said:

It can't be p2w if they keep giving out free MC though. More like pay to not wait so long for a sale to maximize your free MC purchases? Seems like a pretty good enticement to keep new pilots playing to stack up the free MC? By your standard early adopter mech packs for $$ are p2w because everyone else has to wait for them to be in the store for cbills and mc?

For certain mech packs that were clearly OP on release, like the Kodiak (3), yes.

[Meep Meep]

Thats still not the classic definition of p2w though. P2w means that you as a cash customer get a permanent advantage over a non paying customer via buffs or other methods they can't have unless they too pony up some cash. Thats not the case with mech packs even if they were op because everyone eventually gets them. I get the point in that they nerfed the kodiaks later so early cash adopters got to have the most fun but the blowback was pretty fierce and I don't think they will do that again.

Edited by Meep Meep, 27 June 2022 - 07:28 PM.

[Nightbird]

No, "any" advantage. Temporal or not.

[Meep Meep]

Well thats too strict an interpretation given the state of the game and how you can get multiple heroes per year off the free MC especially if you wait to spend it during sales. It's like a kid complaining his sibling got a bit more soup or a bigger slice of pie to be honest. Besides there has to be something to entice spending real money on the game or we ~all~ lose in the end?