151 replies to this topic

[Semyon Drakon]

Well met Trothkin.

I have a small idea that may bear larger fruit.

The issue of how to impement the clans without causing massive game imbalance and allowing wannabes who are just after our tech and mechs has been rather a hot one in the community.

I have a solution.

When a new player signs up to join the clans he is automatically sent to a sibko training centre. There PC's with real clan interest and traditional values (selected after strict screening) run a training program that will take a month of preparation in the selected weight class before the new inductee will have a chance at passing a trial of position against the instructors or chosen clan mechwarriors.

Once passed they are then posted to a unit unless they also wish to become a commander. If that is the case they stay on for dedicated command training and another trial of position where they earn the right to command clan units in the field.

I know this last deviates slightly from the norm however it will ensure dedication to the clans and a thorough grounding in clan law, values and warrior ethos.

The instructors will, at any time, remove a trainee who refuses to play the canon Clan values and rules, be it 5 minutes in or 29 days in, if they refuse to play the game. I think this would weed out the wannabees and those who are just hunting our tech.

Thoughts?

Seyla sibkin

Semyon

[MarauderDeuce]

I really like this idea in theory but I don't see it working in practice.

What I am put in mind of is the horde nights we used to have on the Neverwinter Nights server I used to play on. We'd all pull out our horde skinned chars and deliver highly irreverent pain on all and sundry. The thing was that the whole thing was always 'in character', no meta gaming and no out of character chatter.

I always liked playing No'dge Che (goblin princess) who's main job was to deflate her father's ego.

Given the chance I plan on sinking neck deep into a clan persona for this game but as much as I would enjoy being part of a sibco I have to wonder about the practicalities of it. For you and me it's not too bad, but what if the participant (or trainer) is in the US or UK or similarly difficult locations?

[Stormwolf]

Getting into the Clans should be hard, I'm still hoping for a knowledge quiz + skill test to keep the munchkins out.

[Gremlich Johns]

CBS in all its iterations has had a training program which included a Trial of Entry (TOE) (and a few others). You can view our protocols here.

We always had the rule that unless you passed the TOE, you didn't drop in a match.

[Anton]

Well, I guess a lot of existing clan units (e.g. who played in NBT-HC), already adopted this approach. One of examples was the CJF (actually I didn't ever graduate because I felt I was not ready to pass the Trial of Position succesfully), and I know a lot of other units who played the same way (btw, this added a nice RPG sense to the game).

Generally, I think that this is a really perfect approach to keep casual public from entering clan units. Either you follow all those not-so-easy-to-follow rules, or you are out.

[Gremlich Johns]

There were guys who would join, regardless of knowing about the requirement to pass the Trial of Entry, and then decide they didn't want to have to undergo the trial. They were invited to leave the clan. Easy. Those who were Clan in their hearts, stayed. It's a great way to weed out the hoi polloi.

[RJF Grimuar]

I have it all took place once and I earned my rank Mechwarrior, because for me this approach is not acceptable ... But it's a good idea for those who only joined to the Battletech universe, to have formed clans is a good way to properly put into their new members a unit.

[Strayed]

From past experience dealing with Clan Players; 90% of them I have faced would be consider Dezgra and kicked out the Clans or banished to the bandit caste in a heartbeat. I'm up for facing Clanners as long as they are Vicious Clan Marauders and really seem like aliens to Inner Sphere; and not just grievers going for best tech available.

[Gremlich Johns]

Strayed, on 02 January 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

From past experience dealing with Clan Players; 90% of them I have faced would be consider Dezgra and kicked out the Clans

I find your willingness to judge a group you would have no part of (or experience in other than being a target) interesting. I submit that your experience (as an obviously IS only player) has probably been mostly in Public matches and perhaps some ladder leagues running up against pilots who, as you indicate, just joined a clan to get the tech - those grievers you mentioned. (as found in Mektek)

The Clansmen in the NBT planetary leagues held themselves to a higher standard so I know you are not referring to them. And do not disagree because you got your rear ends handed to you with frequency. Good players, regardless of the tech they choose, will give you a good go more often than not. As a group portraying Clan Blood Spirit in the NBT leagues, we did our level best to pilot the mechs the BT universe would have permitted them - mostly Star League era tech. Omni-mech tech came late to CBS so you would have, if it was possible in the timeline, faced a Clan group piloting the same tech as you. I would suggest that without the roleplay component being present (as it was in the NBT leagues), your impressions of the gaming environment will prevail. Not all Clansmen are those "dezgra" you speak of (those are just guys who think your tears taste delicious).

[Strayed]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 January 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

I find your willingness to judge a group you would have no part of (or experience in other than being a target) interesting. I submit that your experience (as an obviously IS only player) has probably been mostly in Public matches and perhaps some ladder leagues running up against pilots who, as you indicate, just joined a clan to get the tech - those grievers you mentioned. (as found in Mektek)

I actually have had a great deal of experience with the Clans, and have ran with a few Clans, but preferred Inner Sphere cause I suppose you are right, too many are Clan for Tech; and it makes me wonder why they choose Clans if they aren't even aware of stuff such as Zellbrigen (one person once thought it was a type of cream). Ticks me off that. Although with mekpaks Clan Tech really is downplayed and its funny to hear the cries from "Would-be-Clanners" being blasted to bits by light gauss rifles in puretech cause we out-range them.

Main point I'd make is that I want Clanners to be well, "Clanners" If that was the case, you'd spend more time fighting amongst yourselves than really fighting the Inner Sphere.

[Gremlich Johns]

I agree that Clansmen should behave as clansmen, as much going on at "homeworld" as down in the IS. That was what was great about a planetary league.

[Stormwolf]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 January 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I agree that Clansmen should behave as clansmen, as much going on at "homeworld" as down in the IS. That was what was great about a planetary league.

Yes, I'd personally prefer a more closed set of servers for MWO where you can have trials against other Clan players. But that probably won't be in the cards any time soon.

[Adridos]

Strayed, on 02 January 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Main point I'd make is that I want Clanners to be well, "Clanners" If that was the case, you'd spend more time fighting amongst yourselves than really fighting the Inner Sphere.

Thatt statement makes me think of FWL. I don't get why no Clanners go there. You always go to FRR for no apparent reason.

And I agree with you. People who want to join Clans should meet high criteria to enter. We don't want to faceroll Clans before their intended time, right?

[Xavier Truscott]

Why would it take high criteria to join a clan? Do you think we'll need to pass an entrance exam to be able to pilot a mech? I could see this perspective if you were among a group of friends planning out a long TT campaign or possibly PnP rpg, but to set a bar for entry into a particular faction would be ridiculous.

I'm a fan of the BT universe, and have played every incarnation of it since about 86, and while i love the lore and stories of the clans as much as the intrigue and polotics of the IS, it has no place in this instance.

What a thread like this is saying is that only the chosen ones should be a part of a certain faction, because the common person who has interest in being a clanner isn't worthy because they don't fit your mold.

What you are proposing is fine for entry into a particular unit, each group of people that want to play together, should be able to dictate who they want to play with, but to say that someone who is new to the game shouldn't be able to be on your faction (not meaning your unit, but the entire faction your unit may belong to ) simply because they don't meet your criteria is just an elitist point of view and serves no function.

Edited by Xavier Truscott, 02 January 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[Kezran Vrass]

it easy to join the clans if ur bad skilled or unlucky they capture u and u become bondsman

[Adridos]

Xavier Truscott, on 02 January 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Why would it take high criteria to join a clan? Do you think we'll need to pass an entrance exam to be able to pilot a mech? I could see this perspective if you were among a group of friends planning out a long TT campaign or possibly PnP rpg, but to set a bar for entry into a particular faction would be ridiculous.

I'm a fan of the BT universe, and have played every incarnation of it since about 86, and while i love the lore and stories of the clans as much as the intrigue and polotics of the IS, it has no place in this instance.

What a thread like this is saying is that only the chosen ones should be a part of a certain faction, because the common person who has interest in being a clanner isn't worthy because they don't fit your mold.

What you are proposing is fine for entry into a particular unit, each group of people that want to play together, should be able to dictate who they want to play with, but to say that someone who is new to the game shouldn't be able to be on your faction (not meaning your unit, but the entire faction your unit may belong to ) simply because they don't meet your criteria is just an elitist point of view and serves no function.

They want to eliminate the fact that: lore wise Clans are superior warriors over IS and have better equipment, but they are low on numbers. But in the game, everyone wants to play Clans. That way, they have better equipment, there is 3x more of them than IS players and so anyone who wants to play IS is "screwed".There are three solutions to this. No clans in the game, set the game in a year when IS is equal in power to Clans, or give Clan players at least some disadvantage and because they want to be canon, only way is to reduce the number of Clans by any means.

[Xavier Truscott]

Adridos, on 02 January 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

They want to eliminate the fact that: lore wise Clans are superior warriors over IS and have better equipment, but they are low on numbers. But in the game, everyone wants to play Clans. That way, they have better equipment, there is 3x more of them than IS players and so anyone who wants to play IS is "screwed".There are three solutions to this. No clans in the game, set the game in a year when IS is equal in power to Clans, or give Clan players at least some disadvantage and because they want to be canon, only way is to reduce the number of Clans by any means.

I would expect that PGI will do the balancing of the game to make sure IS is competitive, i wouldn't want that left to players to decide who is worthy of piloting a mech based on tech level of the faction. I would love nothing more then a completely canon TT conversion, unfortunately, that would result in completely unbalanced gameplay. The intended balance from what i've been reading or listening to from the media provided so far indicates that clan players are rewarded with xp for being a clanner (ie fighting within the rules of zell) while they suffer penalties to xp gain if they do not. Technically, that will weed out the players who joined just for the tech because it would be easier to advance their avatar with their playstyle in an IS faction. While that won't necessarily deter all, it would make it a much more difficult progression for those who don't want to take up the clan ways in battles.

All in all, i don't believe anyone should have the right to restrict a faction based on the fact that one person went there because of "oh, shiny!" and another went there because they've immersed themselves completely into the lore and can recite the remembrance by heart.

[Adridos]

Well, devs stated that Zellbrigen will be forced by in-game rules and that you will field smaller amount of mechs against larger IS squads. If they force you to not be able to fire on anyone, except the one you attacked, unless they attack you in number, then I'm fine with it.

[Tifalia]

Kezran Vrass, on 02 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

it easy to join the clans if ur bad skilled or unlucky they capture u and u become bondsman

And now you bring what has been on my mind for the last few weeks: what if you are captured by a Clan and made bondsman? Traditionally, you would have to wear the bondcord and spend a certain amount of time as a member of the laborer caste, whilst in service to your bondholder (the Clan warrior who captured you on the field of battle, for those who are not so familiar with some of the Clan terms) until you are able to prove your loyalty to the Clan you are now a part of.
Yet how would such a thing work, when not all of the Clans allow bondsmen to rejoin the ranks of the warrior caste, like Clan Smoke Jaguar?

Edited by Tifalia, 02 January 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[Gorith]

Well what they could do to enforce rules of combat is instead of not giving you anything for breaking the rules (IE you shot a non engaged enemy therefore gain nothing toward rank increase) make it so you actually lose progress. Players that never adhere to the rules simply will ALWAYS be lowest rank therefor limiting them to the weakest equipment and mechs?