151 replies to this topic

[Seth]

Tifalia, on 02 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

And now you bring what has been on my mind for the last few weeks: what if you are captured by a Clan and made bondsman? Traditionally, you would have to wear the bondcord and spend a certain amount of time as a member of the laborer caste, whilst in service to your bondholder (the Clan warrior who captured you on the field of battle, for those who are not so familiar with some of the Clan terms) until you are able to prove your loyalty to the Clan you are now a part of.
Yet how would such a thing work, when not all of the Clans allow bondsmen to rejoin the ranks of the warrior caste, like Clan Smoke Jaguar?

Clearly that would not work in an online game setting, but I have been made bondsman to a Federated Suns unit before. It was an agreed upon condition of a 1 vs 1 fight where the looser would fight for the winner for a month. I even dropped against my own Clan and got a few kills in a hunchback.

Kezran Vrass, on 02 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

it easy to join the clans if ur bad skilled or unlucky they capture u and u become bondsman

just b cause u loose 2 a clan dosnt mean ur taken as a bonsman

Edited by Seth, 02 January 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Paralax]

MarauderDeuce, on 01 January 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

I really like this idea in theory but I don't see it working in practice.

What I am put in mind of is the horde nights we used to have on the Neverwinter Nights server I used to play on. We'd all pull out our horde skinned chars and deliver highly irreverent pain on all and sundry. The thing was that the whole thing was always 'in character', no meta gaming and no out of character chatter.

I always liked playing No'dge Che (goblin princess) who's main job was to deflate her father's ego.

Given the chance I plan on sinking neck deep into a clan persona for this game but as much as I would enjoy being part of a sibco I have to wonder about the practicalities of it. For you and me it's not too bad, but what if the participant (or trainer) is in the US or UK or similarly difficult locations?

First Stravag, stop using the innersphere slang, your contractions make you sound like a freebirth.

Edited by Paralax, 02 January 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Semyon Drakon]

I do not see a huge problem with the Sibkos being run by players. There are enough skilled mechwarriors all over the world that they could be manned almost constantly and allow sibkids a chance to train and work towards their trials.

There seems to be a trend towards thinking this is elitist. Yes, it is.

Clan tech will unbalance the game horribly unless something is done to keep it reasonably deployed, under strict rules of engagement. this is why (in the TT game) the rules of Zellbrigen were invented in the first place.

Let's explore how to acheive this without name calling though quiaff?

Semyon

[swamp hag]

Dear Devs:

Not all of us want to roleplay every second of every game. I am a die hard Clanner but ... yeah.

Edited by glory, 03 January 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Meth0s]

Interesting how the OP has a FedCom pic, and another a Steiner.

Anyhow, this idea makes no sense.

Imagine this. 'You want to join the Horde in World of Warcraft? Well first, sign this form that indicates that you will do X, Y, and Z'

I recommend that people focus on their own teams, and less on how other people play the game.

If there are clans available, people will play the clans that do not care about RP, people will play houses that do not care about RP.

The Dev's are not going to create a situation where poeple will be tempted to 'join the clans' due to superior tech.


You are not superior in any way because you are a 'clanner'. Playing a clanner is fun. But you aren't one.

Edited by MethosFurey, 03 January 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[Seth]

MethosFurey, on 03 January 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

You are not superior in any way because you are a 'clanner'. Playing a clanner is fun. But you aren't one.

You mean I am not in fact the product of a centuries long eugenics program, spawned from an artificial womb, and raised to be the pinnacle MechWarrior the human race has to offer? I only ask because I do read these forums everyday and feel that should count for something.

[Adridos]

MethosFurey, on 03 January 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Interesting how the OP has a FedCom pic, and another a Steiner.

Anyhow, this idea makes no sense.

Imagine this. 'You want to join the Horde in World of Warcraft? Well first, sign this form that indicates that you will do X, Y, and Z'

I recommend that people focus on their own teams, and less on how other people play the game.

If there are clans available, people will play the clans that do not care about RP, people will play houses that do not care about RP.

The Dev's are not going to create a situation where poeple will be tempted to 'join the clans' due to superior tech.


You are not superior in any way because you are a 'clanner'. Playing a clanner is fun. But you aren't one.

Well, you should rather compare Clans to Death Knight. Horde and Alliance are normal factions -> IS.

[Durant Carlyle]

MethosFurey, on 03 January 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

If there are clans available, people will play the clans that do not care about RP...

The Dev's are not going to create a situation where poeple will be tempted to 'join the clans' due to superior tech.


You are not superior in any way because you are a 'clanner'. Playing a clanner is fun. But you aren't one.

There is only one reason someone who doesn't role-play would want to join a Clan -- superior BattleMechs/weaponry/technology. Hell, that's why a lot of players do DO role-play join the Clans. But at least the role-players act out the disadvantages that come along with the superior technology. Yes, each individual 'Mech is superior, but there will be a lot less of them in every battle because they purposely bid down to the lowest number of 'Mechs that can accomplish the mission. That stuff is a matter of honor for the Clans, especially early in the invasion. Every member of a Clan should have an understanding of the warrior codes that each Clan follows and should do their best to follow the protocols and procedures, just like every member of House Steiner or the Gray Death Legion should follow their respective rules.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to have a separation between the trueborn and freeborn members of a Clan. The trueborn members adhere to a more strict version of the warrior codes and have full access to the advanced technology, while the freeborn warriors have limited access to the technology but have less restrictions on their conduct. This is borne out in the Jade Phoenix trilogy as Aidan the trueborn has his choice of not only which 'Mech he wants to pilot, but also which alternate configuration he wants. At the same time, the freeborn warriors simply take whichever alternate configuration of whatever 'Mech is available. It's still superior technology, but they don't have as much choice.

[Seidh]

Stormwolf, on 02 January 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Yes, I'd personally prefer a more closed set of servers for MWO where you can have trials against other Clan players. But that probably won't be in the cards any time soon.

I wonder if they could make the Clan worlds and Merc units on a different server, and forays into the IS could be like, for lack of a better mmo term, raids (I'd go for invasion but really, honestly, that's only a good word when there are thousands of peeps attacking)

Or, maybe they could make it so the only way you could become Clan is by becoming a bondsman, and "smuggle" you offplanet if you don't feel like becoming clan, plus having the said trials... and Honestly, if you can play Clan, you should be able to earn a bloodname, tho just make the opponents npc's, the more badass for the higher ranked, Kerensky of course being the best. Like surviving a Kerensky trial should be so brutal it takes at least 100 tries lol, hypothetically speaking of course.

Or you could make the bloodname trial a petitioned event with employees in souped up mechs as your opponents

Edited by Seidh, 04 January 2012 - 01:30 AM.

[Meth0s]

First of all, Aidan should never have been a MechWarrior. He failed his Trial of Entry. He doesn't deserve the bloodname. He is one of the worst characters in BattleTech lore.

Second, define 'honorable clanner' please and 'honorable combat'.

The clans did bid against each other, but they still brought such far superior mechs against the IS, that it barely mattered until ComStar showed up. The clans did not fight Zellbringen style against the IS, because as soon as 2 IS mechs shot at a single clan mech, any notion of Zellbringen was off (if the clan even started trying to do this).

Third, different clans had different thresholds of what was honorable. Who's honor are you going to take on? Smoke Jaguar would say 'just kill em all'.

[Adridos]

MethosFurey, on 04 January 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Third, different clans had different thresholds of what was honorable. Who's honor are you going to take on? Smoke Jaguar would say 'just kill em all'.

And look how they ended...

[Stormwolf]

MethosFurey, on 04 January 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

First of all, Aidan should never have been a MechWarrior. He failed his Trial of Entry. He doesn't deserve the bloodname. He is one of the worst characters in BattleTech lore.

Really? I always consider him one of the better characters in the lore since he's so horribly flawed.
He did however defend his right as a warrior through honorable combat, the bloodname trials were also pretty fun.

MethosFurey, on 04 January 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Second, define 'honorable clanner' please and 'honorable combat'.

The clans did bid against each other, but they still brought such far superior mechs against the IS, that it barely mattered until ComStar showed up. The clans did not fight Zellbringen style against the IS, because as soon as 2 IS mechs shot at a single clan mech, any notion of Zellbringen was off (if the clan even started trying to do this).

Third, different clans had different thresholds of what was honorable. Who's honor are you going to take on? Smoke Jaguar would say 'just kill em all'.

Well, it's pretty honorable to take on multiple opponents at once.

The hardcore level 1 players would continue fighting their designated opponents no matter what. This however doesn't mean that they can't challenge mechs that aren't already engaged with a opponent.

Clan Smoke Jaguar was skating on thin ice ever since Revival started. They couldn't get away with anything anymore after Turtle Bay.

[Xavier Truscott]

All of this would be well and good if you were playing WoW, and you had to do a quest to change or join a faction. We're talking about a sim FPS here. Teams drop into a fight, kill each other, lather, rinse, repeat. Any RP that goes on, will likely be in the forums and over voice coms. All well and good if that is what you are here for, but this isn't your group of TT or RPG buddies getting together once a week for a long campaign with a GM and NPC's interacting and giving you quests. The only thing you are suggesting is this thread is limiting other players that you don't feel deserve the right to play the whole game in whatever fashion pleases them.

Do whatever you want in your unit, recruit however you want, and restrict your friends with your own rules. New players to the game shouldn't be forced to start off in the IS just because you don't think they should be allowed to play with the shiny toys in the clan.

Leave game balance to the Devs, and let people play whichever faction they want. Otherwise, you will have a very small following of die hards that would make for a great community, but poor bottom line, and eventually, we end up with no MW:O and back to playing with the 80 or so people that make up the MW4 diehards on gameranger or mektek matchmaking.

Edited by Xavier Truscott, 04 January 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[swamp hag]

Stormwolf, on 04 January 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Really? I always consider him one of the better characters in the lore since he's so horribly flawed.
He did however defend his right as a warrior through honorable combat, the bloodname trials were also pretty fun.

For the sake of argument, here - Aidan murdered someone in cold blood, impersonated him, and lied for years because he couldn't accept that he bombed his ToE miserably. Honorable?


Also, Xavier speaks ze truth.

[Jaroth Corbett]

MethosFurey, on 04 January 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

First of all, Aidan should never have been a MechWarrior. He failed his Trial of Entry. He doesn't deserve the bloodname. He is one of the worst characters in BattleTech lore.

For the sake of argument, Aidan murdered NOONE. It was Ter Roshak who killed the freebirth Jorge. It was Ter Roshak who thought of, strategized & executed the plan. Aidan had NO knowledge of this & agreed to it AFTER he was approached.

Also Aidan did not "bomB his ToP miserably". He was in fact in the middle of a maneuver that would had given him mutliple kills (if you read the novel you would realize the observers of the Trial realized what he was doing & praised him for it inwardly) but got dropped by Marthe which he was not expecting at all. It was not the Steel Vipers where the cadets have to kill each other to advance.

Get your facts straight.

Stormwolf, on 04 January 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Really? I always consider him one of the better characters in the lore since he's so horribly flawed.
He did however defend his right as a warrior through honorable combat, the bloodname trials were also pretty fun.

I agree. As he was trueborn he had the right to the Trial of Bloodright but they made sure they did their best to prevent him from accomplishing this. Also at the end of the day, justice was handed down. He had the deck stacked HARD against him & still managed to triumph against overwhelming odds. After all of the hatred the Clan had for him, clan law was followed, he had to face the Trials, he succeeded he went on to become a legend. Might I also point out that Adler Malthus who started off well ended in shame.

I also like the fact that the Falcon Guards never called themselves Adler's Assassins or Malthus' Marauders or anything to that effect, but for a pilot who failed his initial ToP, posed as a freebirth, rejected the gracious offer of the Khan, withstood a Trial of Refusal, the Grand Melee, all the Trial of Bloodright battles (even when the other competitors swore a secret oath to kill him rather than just defeat him), earned his Bloodname & went out like a hero protecting the Clan, they CHOSE to call themselves Pryde's Pride. I think that in itself speaks volumes. Oh did I mention this dishonorable surat also got himself a passage in the Remembrance?

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 04 January 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[Stormwolf]

glory, on 04 January 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

For the sake of argument, here - Aidan murdered someone in cold blood, impersonated him, and lied for years because he couldn't accept that he bombed his ToE miserably. Honorable?


Also, Xavier speaks ze truth.

Wrong, Ter Roshak Killed Jorge, he had Joanna and Nomad track down Aiden to give him a deal he couldn't refuse.
Any washout would have agreed to those terms.

--edit
Jaroth beat me to it.

Edited by Stormwolf, 04 January 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

LOL sorry my friend.

[swamp hag]

Whatever, I'm still going to irrationally hate him because his name means falcon.

I bow to your Superior Knowledge I Am Not Worthy. Mea maxima culpa.

Edited by glory, 04 January 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[Seth]

If you give a listen to the Three Heads podcast interview, the devs do specially state that they can reward a players who behave like actual Clansmen in the game. The example they use is if a player follows Zellbrigen or not as being something the game could track.

[swamp hag]

Seth, on 04 January 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

If you give a listen to the Three Heads podcast interview, the devs do specially state that they can reward a players who behave like actual Clansmen in the game. The example they use is if a player follows Zellbrigen or not as being something the game could track.

That just sounds horribly un-fun... I mean, I'ma actually have to be good rather than relying on my teammates to soften things up so I can killsteal?! Waaaah

Edited by glory, 04 January 2012 - 10:04 AM.