151 replies to this topic

[Xen Wolf]

Aff I agree with this would make the game even more realistic but I to do not think this would be easy to implement. I think that if we were able to join the clans having to bid how many unit we could bring to bear on the IS pilots would be a easier thing to implement and a traditional part of Clan warfare.

[Stormwolf]

Xen Wolf, on 04 January 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Aff I agree with this would make the game even more realistic but I to do not think this would be easy to implement. I think that if we were able to join the clans having to bid how many unit we could bring to bear on the IS pilots would be a easier thing to implement and a traditional part of Clan warfare.

Yes, you could potentially screw your rival over by getting him/her to underbid.

[Tifalia]

Gorith, on 02 January 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Well what they could do to enforce rules of combat is instead of not giving you anything for breaking the rules (IE you shot a non engaged enemy therefore gain nothing toward rank increase) make it so you actually lose progress. Players that never adhere to the rules simply will ALWAYS be lowest rank therefor limiting them to the weakest equipment and mechs?

I do not see that working out very well, considering that even in real life, you will always suffer casualties from friendly fire (accidentally getting in the way of other members of your unit's shots, bombing runs etc) unless of course you are taking anout deliberately firing on members of your own unit time after time, in which the point system could be put into effect as what you described.

[Paralax]

MethosFurey, on 04 January 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

First of all, Aidan should never have been a MechWarrior. He failed his Trial of Entry. He doesn't deserve the bloodname. He is one of the worst characters in BattleTech lore.

Second, define 'honorable clanner' please and 'honorable combat'.

The clans did bid against each other, but they still brought such far superior mechs against the IS, that it barely mattered until ComStar showed up. The clans did not fight Zellbringen style against the IS, because as soon as 2 IS mechs shot at a single clan mech, any notion of Zellbringen was off (if the clan even started trying to do this).

Third, different clans had different thresholds of what was honorable. Who's honor are you going to take on? Smoke Jaguar would say 'just kill em all'.

I agree, that said, and Zel was always differant between clans, Example JF might see Honor in jumping behind a Enemy and letting everything go, after all you are fighting heat, and you had the skill the advance to behind the enemy. A Jaguar or Wolf might see this as dishnonorable.

A Ghost Bear Might see Honor in taking an attack full on and getting in to hand to hand, Most clans would call this a breach.

If you read the books, and fluff, many of the clans bickering was over small things that the other clan called a dishonoable attack.

Smoke Jaguars and Turtle Bay, anyone?

[Xen Wolf]

Stormwolf, on 04 January 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Yes, you could potentially screw your rival over by getting him/her to underbid.

Exactly not to mention we could prove to those crybaby IS pilots who the really warrior are by taking a star of Trueborns per Company of IS mechs. Trueborns will lead the way! I'm kind of sad that it looks like we wont be able to join Clan Wolf. I wish they would make a game that felt like you really in the shoes of a mechwarrior with all the different aspect of the actually story intact.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I still say 1 star vs 2 lances. What could be easier than that?

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 05 January 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Jaroth Winson, on 05 January 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

I still say 1 star vs 2 lances. What could be easier than that?

doesnt work cause of three words:
drops are blind

1 star (of what?)
vs
2 lances (of what?)

TT it works cause I can (for the majority of scenarios) see the models you put down, the Record Sheets you pull out.
MW:O? you could have anything from 5 Dire Wolf's to 1 Timber wolf, 2 Kit Foxes, 1 Fenris, and 1 Firemoth

vs

my IS lance of heavies
and my screening lance of mediums and heavies...

to say nothing of the individual skill of each player - in TT clan superiority is baked in, for something like MW:O not
every clan player is going to be necessarily perfect to make up for the loss in numbers - heavy RP-ing to the contrary.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 06 January 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Stormwolf]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 06 January 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

doesnt work cause of three words:
drops are blind

1 star (of what?)
vs
2 lances (of what?)

TT it works cause I can (for the majority of scenarios) see the models you put down, the Record Sheets you pull out.
MW:O? you could have anything from 5 Dire Wolf's to 1 Timber wolf, 2 Kit Foxes, 1 Fenris, and 1 Firemoth

vs

my IS lance of heavies
and my screening lance of mediums and heavies...

to say nothing of the individual skill of each player - in TT clan superiority is baked in, for something like MW:O not
every clan player is going to be necessarily perfect to make up for the loss in numbers - heavy RP-ing to the contrary.

That is where BV comes in, I hope that new "BV3" system is going to be finished really soon.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Stormwolf, on 06 January 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

That is where BV comes in, I hope that new "BV3" system is going to be finished really soon.

I hope so, for all our fun sakes O.o

[GaussDragon]

Seth, on 04 January 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

You mean I am not in fact the product of a centuries long eugenics program, spawned from an artificial womb, and raised to be the pinnacle MechWarrior the human race has to offer? I only ask because I do read these forums everyday and feel that should count for something.

It won't feel like it counted for much if we drop into a 1v1 and I mop the floor with you to the tune of a 3:1 kill/death ratio
I'm elitist just like you, but that's because I'm actually good.

[MarauderDeuce]

Paralax, on 02 January 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

First Stravag, stop using the innersphere slang, your contractions make you sound like a freebirth.

*Evil Grin* Were I in-character then I would accept your reprimand but I'm not so I make a rude gesture to you instead.

Secondly, you said First - was there a second point or just playing clan grammar-nazi?

[Gremlich Johns]

Re: clan speech, might as well start to get used to what is really considered alpha-speech. This will flavour the game much better.

[Arkas]

This is an interesting thought specially if they go with how the weapons were in Mechwarrior 2 and I believe 3. Clan tech were improved in literally every way. Now if the weapons are like they were in Mechwarrior 4 then there will be a trade-off for having increased damage of Clan weapons. I personally think that they shouldn't have changed the clan weapons for Mechwarrior 4, but it worked to provide some balance in the campaign and online.

I don't know as much as I would like about the Clans since I only exposure to Battletech was two games. Mechwarrior 2 and Mechwarrior 4. I've been a hardcore fan of everything to do with it since played Mechwarrior 2. I've always looked for the books and etc to learn more about it, but it just wasn't availible to me at the time. Now that we have online shopping and I no longer have to ask mommy and daddy for stuff.. the books are hard as hell to find online. >_<

Dispite all that though.. I would do the trials since I played on Mechwarrior Leagues and I was part of a clan and it only felt right to follow the traditions of the clan. I did the trials and tried to earn as good of a rank as I could. I only ended up earning the Title of Mechwarrior, but I was happy about it because I earned it and left my Sibko rank behind.

People may whine and complain about limiting the number of clan members or having players control how gets to join the clan.. but that's how it would have worked.. The IS would have taken anyone to pilot a mech where as the clan selected and trained their members. There was a strict code of displine because the members of the Clans and the Clans themselves were WARRIOR SOCIETIES. IS is merely a group of waring houses hiring mercenaries and soliders to fight for the houses leaders.

To me it always seemed the IS was made up of a sort of spoiled aristocats fighting over land and resources while the warrior society focused on bicking over disagreements on honorable and dishonorable actions. It's like looking at Americans and English fighting in the colonial era vs. Watching the Japanese warlords fighting over what was honorable or being dishonored and regaining lost honor and training elite warriors rather.

I'm curioius as to how all this is implemented when the game is launched to be able to balance it out. I will do what it takes to be a clan member as I'm used to everything the clan brings. I'll do the trials and gladly learn what needs to be learned to join. You could classify me as a freeborn due to my lack of knowledge, but my skill and willingness to join keeps me wanting to be a part of the clans... should be all I need to carve a path of scrap metal in claiming a bloodname for myself.

[Semyon Drakon]

I think the point I was making has been missed. I wasn't talking about being elitist for the sake of it. I was saying that the Clans should be strict as to who can graduate from training. That experienced players selected by the devs based on some sort of testing would be the senior trainers or Galaxy Commanders would allow for a stringent set of criteria to be created, agrred to by the devs and then set forth as a 'If you agree to this, tick the box and proceed to training sibkid'.

Then the training modules, can be attempted, using non lethal scenarios to train a machwarrior to a certain level of skill, whilst imparting the Clan honour system through downloaded documents and the example of the trainers.

Once this is done, you fight a Trial of Position. My cone concession to the game would be to allow people who fail a chance to try again, perhaps having them relegated to second line machines for the first little while should they succeed the second time.

it would be complicated and i have been writing a lot of ideas for how it would work. Was wanting to test the water and see what others thought/felt about it.

Semyon

[Jack Gammel]

Balance issues will ultimately be decided by the devs, and I'm sure they'll be properly play-tested before they're ever implemented. As far as Clans go there seems to be many ways to address this with relative ease. If they give and take away xp based on Clan behavior in combat they'll all but insure that "bad" clan players are going to be perpetually low level. By giving clan players influence over the people they play with (possibly allowing Trials of Grievance) they could allow experienced players to police their own ranks (even players who are in the Clans just for the tech are going to get angry if they're constantly getting teamed up with low-level players who stay low because of their inabilty to play the system). I think the DK from WoW has already been brought up, and I think that only offering Clan membership to players who have spent a little time playing the game and getting experience (hopefully making them better players) might also be a smart move. But then what do I know?

As far as the "sibko" idea goes, it would almost seem necessary to some degree if the devs implement any kind of special ruleset for the Clans, just to give people the chance to get used to the new system. Call sibko training the Clan "starting quests."

[Aaron DeChavilier]

ok now to throw this back into disarray; what happens when we see the rise of superior
IS pilots (let's be honest there are elite on both sides) and they arent bound by low numbers
or honor rules; and these players mix the best skills with some of the best IS tech of the
time i.e. pulse, guass, ER, and lb-x? what then of your little clan social club? suddenly it
doesnt seem worth it at all...

[Semyon Drakon]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 07 January 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

ok now to throw this back into disarray; what happens when we see the rise of superior
IS pilots (let's be honest there are elite on both sides) and they arent bound by low numbers
or honor rules; and these players mix the best skills with some of the best IS tech of the
time i.e. pulse, guass, ER, and lb-x? what then of your little clan social club? suddenly it
doesnt seem worth it at all...

Personally I look forward to it! If a player is going to roleplay a clan mechwarrior and has joined with like-minded people to form a unit then hearing about an elite challenge of that sort should be irresistable!

Semyon

[Phelan Kerensky]

Semyon Drakon, on 07 January 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Personally I look forward to it! If a player is going to roleplay a clan mechwarrior and has joined with like-minded people to form a unit then hearing about an elite challenge of that sort should be irresistable!

Semyon

This^^...

As a Wolf and WiE Warrior(after the Refusal War)I would willingly adhere to any rules about joining a clan and go through them all. I am also one of those Clanners that would actually follow Zellbrigen. I really like the idea of having the Devs select certain individuals who fit certain criteria as Clanners to be the first Clanners or something and then they can set(with the devs or w/e)the standards, test,s etc. to get into a clan... Also, those that think there shouldn't be sooooooo many tests to join a clan, remember that Sibkin didn't just sit around doing nothing then get to a ToP and see if they were eligible or not. A sibko would go through many tests on Clan rules, Zellbrigen, tech, and pretty much anything that had to do with Clan Lore, before they were ever allowed to try for a ToP and become a Clan MechWarrior...

[Xavier Truscott]

Phelan Kerensky, on 10 January 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

This^^...

As a Wolf and WiE Warrior(after the Refusal War)I would willingly adhere to any rules about joining a clan and go through them all. I am also one of those Clanners that would actually follow Zellbrigen. I really like the idea of having the Devs select certain individuals who fit certain criteria as Clanners to be the first Clanners or something and then they can set(with the devs or w/e)the standards, test,s etc. to get into a clan... Also, those that think there shouldn't be sooooooo many tests to join a clan, remember that Sibkin didn't just sit around doing nothing then get to a ToP and see if they were eligible or not. A sibko would go through many tests on Clan rules, Zellbrigen, tech, and pretty much anything that had to do with Clan Lore, before they were ever allowed to try for a ToP and become a Clan MechWarrior...

Still thinking that because you roleplay a clanner you all deserve to be given first shot at being one above anyone else. Because, basically what you are saying is that the IS armed forces just gave anyone who had a deathwish a machine to jump into to blow stuff up with. No training, or testing involved at all. All those freebirths were just able to pick up any old multimillion cbill rustbucket and go to town.

I also love the comments on how people are already great at a game that hasn't even hit beta yet like gaussdragon. It's obvious that you can beat everyone on these forums in a one on one when there's no way to actually put that to the test.

Factions are NOT player controlled. They are just a side to pick that you want to play on. You can test anyone you want to be in your merc unit, or sub-unit of each faction, but there should never be a restriction on who gets to wear a NPC controled faction insignia.

[Xen Wolf]

Xavier Truscott, on 11 January 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Still thinking that because you roleplay a clanner you all deserve to be given first shot at being one above anyone else. Because, basically what you are saying is that the IS armed forces just gave anyone who had a deathwish a machine to jump into to blow stuff up with. No training, or testing involved at all. All those freebirths were just able to pick up any old multimillion cbill rustbucket and go to town.

I also love the comments on how people are already great at a game that hasn't even hit beta yet like gaussdragon. It's obvious that you can beat everyone on these forums in a one on one when there's no way to actually put that to the test.

Factions are NOT player controlled. They are just a side to pick that you want to play on. You can test anyone you want to be in your merc unit, or sub-unit of each faction, but there should never be a restriction on who gets to wear a NPC controled faction insignia.

I agree we should not have a bunch of test to be part of a NPC controlled faction which is what the clans would be if they let us play them. I would say the only reason everybody is saying we should is to appease the cry baby IS pilots that our only loyal to their house til they have to face the clans and then cry foul cause we would have such easy access to better tech. That is why i suggested bidding down our units strength to a acceptable level so it match the unit we are facing instead of testing in to the clan. Its something clans did anyways so they would not waste life.