Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:11 PM
Guys...I just read this whole thread...Wow.
I think that this whole thing boils down to miscommunication. A significant portion of the players here first saw the Battletech series with MechWarrior 2. Therefore, many of them associate with the clans. I loved MW2 and MW2:GBL, but these games really did not express Zellbrigen in any way shape or form. It addressed the batchall a bit, with limited tonnage ratios and giving you a higher honor score if you used lower tonnage 'Mechs. However, most of the game, even though you fought outnumbered, you could drop with nearly any loadout you wanted and run around group firing everything in sight.
The game never said "Sorry you're not good enough to join this clan." Some of the trials were difficult, like I remember the JF Galaxy Commander trial was tough. If you breezed through it, give me a break because I was like 9 years old when I was doing it. If I recall, you have to fight an Executioner and Dire Wolf in a stock Firemoth (SRM-6, SRM-4, and 2 ERML).
Anyway, my point was that it wasn't an exclusive group. It was Coke or Pepsi. It was Red or Green. People didn't know the underlying differences between the Falcons or the Wolves until they chose a side. I'm sure many people, myself included, played both sides, the same way that people would play both the GDI and NOD campaigns in Command & Conquer, or the Human and Orc sides in Warcraft 2. If you wanted to play them, you could. They were there to be experienced.
Either way, my point is that you could just "join" a side, and ranking up in trials was optional to a degree. You felt like it was an exclusive club, but really everyone who played was a member of one of these two (or three with the expansion) Clans. Zellbrigen was nonexistent in single-player, and many people only played single player. Perhaps most of the people on these forums (a vocal minority of MechWarrior fans) played online, but the rest of the players who generated $70million in sales for Activision may have only played single-player, as net gaming was pretty fledgling in the mid-90's. What's my point? Someone who played MechWarrior 2 15 years ago hears about MWO, logs on, wants to jump in a Timber Wolf and blast people. Should he/she be allowed to do that?
According to most posters here, no. And I fully understand how you feel. And to a point, I agree with it. I feel that the computer games have not correctly represented Clan culture/society in their gameplay.MW2 had some really nice fluff, some well written missions and lore, but I'm sure plenty of players just skipped through the text to get to the next mission where their giant robots shot lasers at other giant robots and blew them up. And again, the gameplay itself didn't force you to do things in an honorable way - which is a fantastic feature, but just like some people are against legging, 7ERLL Nova Cats, jump-sniping, LRM-boating, whatever, MW2 didn't give you any rules saying "don't do this." or "In order to do this, you need to fight like THAT."
Getting back to the original post about training centers... Look at Quake Live as an example to learn from, either as a good one or a bad one. Basically, they have a skill-matching system that measures your skill by having you do an obstacle course and a 1v1 duel against a bot for 10 minutes, or first to 10 kills. I'd rather not go into too much detail here, but you can see how this was obviously exploited (e.g., intentionally lose vs. the bot to be put against new players and stomp them, wreck the bot and get placed much higher than you should be because playing vs. a bot isn't the same as playing against a real player). Obviously, bringing a new player into MechWarrior isn't going to be easy. It can have mainstream appeal, but if people don't know what to do, it's the equivalent of giving a kid a soccer ball and saying "have fun" - they might, they might not, but if you mentor them, they have a much higher chance of enjoying the activity. I think there should be a Piloting/Aiming/Weapon Grouping tutorial which is possibly mandatory. Loading Screen tips. F1 overlay with keybinds (like World of Tanks), and have some optional tutorials with advanced guides about information warfare, using ECM, shutdowns, weapon grouping, focusing areas of the 'Mech (especially if we're still using TT-style hitboxes such as RT/LT/CT), and other such "advanced tactics" - hopefully torso twisting will be intuitive and easy to use in this game, assuming we don't have free-floaitng reticles like MW3 (which we probably won't.)
So realize the following:
1: People who only played MW2 and are not acquainted with the rest of the BT universe will not know what Zellbrigen is or why they should have to follow it. They'll understand honor and trials as mechanisms to advance, but not having to pass one just to play. Suggestion: Honor/Rank are linked to 'Mechs available/Weaponry available to the player. Rank is acquired through a Trial of Position.
2: People who played MW2 will understand a training or cadet environment and might even be open to the idea. They will NOT be agreeable to "Oh, I need to 'train' for A MONTH before joining the clan, assuming I don't get rejected from the guy running the training center." This is a fantastic way to alienate half the current playerbase, and countless prospective new players. Don't do that. The only mandatory training should take MAXIMUM 10-15 minutes. The stronger the barrier to entry, the less players.
3: New players and returning "casual" MW players should be encouraged to learn more about the clans that they love. Make the gameplay drive home the fact that the Clans don't let people have all the power but no responsibility. As talked about in the podcast, reward players for fighting honorably.Two possible ideas from this thread include the "Punish them for being dishonorable" post and the "Let them bid, and whoever uses the least but is still successful will get the most honor and advance the quickest" post. Obviously, details would need to be ironed out, but I think that the guy who just wants to blow stuff up shouldn't be forced to restrict himself. I think he should be encouraged to restrict himself, sure, but forced, I'm not sold on the idea.
4: Veteran players, rather than forming the clan itself (sorry to my brethren on MW:LL Smoke Jaguar Reborn <3), could form units within that clan (e.g., 304th Assault Cluster) just like their IS counterparts or Merc Corp counterparts. They can structure their own cohesion and follow their own ranking system through various Trials.
And before the obvious question "why not just have people who don't want to play like a clanner be a spheroid" comes up, let's consider the following situation:
You are a player who has only played MW2. You sign up. The Clans are your standard. They are what he learned BT is. You are forced to join a faction you have never heard of, who were never mentioned in the game(s) you played. You have to use 'Mechs you've never seen or cared about, with worse equipment than the ones you remember and love. Would you really play MWO? Maybe, out of desperation. But would you recommend it to your friends? Or would you say "Yeah, I tried the new MechWarrior game... I can't use a Nova or a Stormcrow or anything, they have all these lame slow things I've never seen that have like no weapons, and you have to pay for stuff, it's too much like EVE/WoT/WoW"
But consider the following: "Yeah, I played MWO - you can start out with those same groups we played with in '94! You can't use every 'Mech right away, but you can use one of any weight class right from the start. To get more, you have to win those Trials just like the old game. Remember there was something about honor in MechWarrior 2? They give you bonuses for fighting 1 on 1 duels and stuff, but you don't have to bother with it if you don't want to. It's pretty cool."
Obviously, if they played MW2:Mercs or another game and have a house or merc unit affiliation, they'll be fine anyway, but I'm talking about players who played MW2 and want MW2.
5
guardian wolf, on 13 January 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:
