182 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

SirNotlag, on 12 August 2022 - 10:40 AM, said:

Lower tiers dont have Radar deprivation so it would not affect those matches at all.

It'll still be OP in lower tiers, so for balance, it'll be UP in higher tiers.

[JPeiper]

I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, on 12 August 2022 - 09:13 AM, said:

No. I've never had so much fun in MW:O since these latest patches, the way LRMs and ATMs have been nerfed to the ground with Radar Deprivation increases the enjoyment of the game for most people. No more sky cancer because the enemy next to me spotted me, so the lobotomite 700m away can be rewarded for pressing R. Not aiming should not be rewarded. I should not be dying to someone who isn't aiming, mindlessly pressing R. God bless the new skill tree.

Got to disagree with the above, LRM's are easily countered not just with ECM but with AMS ,Rad Dep and USE OF COVER.
I run only One LRM boat in tier 2 and it's not effective (and not oftain used) unless a few team mates lock on for me- which is why it's a team game. If a player is suffering from "sky cancer" then learn to use the Four points above (or stand next to a mech with that kit). In Mechwarrior, LRM boats have a solid place in the lore and are a part of the game that make it different from most other FPS shooters. To play an LRM boat requires a different skill set , it's not easy, and no LRM pilot is a "lobotomite", pls keep the insults to other games forum , it does not help.

[Xeno Phalcon]

What you want, is a BAP version of the ECM nodes. (Actually come to think of it you could have a BAP/TComp node to increase the effect of either/both)

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 12 August 2022 - 12:05 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

SirNotlag, on 12 August 2022 - 10:40 AM, said:

Lower tiers dont have Radar deprivation so it would not affect those matches at all.

I fail to see how lower tiers have no access to the new and cheap skill tree.

[Steve Pryde]

Saved By The Bell, on 11 August 2022 - 11:57 PM, said:

Its entire a strong ECM problem, not deprivation.

It's both together. ECM is way to strong for the tonnage usage. ECM should turn off artemis+streak lock on (streaks turn into normal srms against ecm mechs) like in the table top, not that garbage "**** you, u can't lock on without a TAG".

100% Radar Deprivation nullifys even target decay skill notes completely which is just ********.

And for me, lock on weapons, specially lrms/atms, need a complete rework. Fire&forget mechanic would be a nice start like in the older Mechwarrior games.

ScrapIron Prime, on 12 August 2022 - 12:12 PM, said:

I fail to see how lower tiers have no access to the new and cheap skill tree.

Players in lower tiers are there for a reason. They still have to learn alot or they don't play that regulary or are that much into the skill tree or even know what some skill nodes do.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 12 August 2022 - 12:19 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Alternatively, you can buff Radar Retention so full skills retains a 1 second lock against full Radar Deprivation.

[1453 R]

Feel like lowering maximum natural RaDerp to 80 or 75% wouldn't go amiss. Would put extra emphasis on the 'Mechs that get innate RaDerp quirks, since those normally don't really matter what with everybody grabbing RaDerp anyways, and it feels like unintended behavior that scooting behind a telephone pole can instabreak locks. Ducking behind actual cover and dropping off scopes super quick? Absolutely. Spoofing enemy targeting systems with the power of a convenient street light? Not really cool. And I say this as someone that desperately wishes "Information Warfare" was a bigger deal than it was, and someone who honestly believes RaDerp is in some ways even more important to Ewar defense than ECM is.

[ScrapIron Prime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 12 August 2022 - 12:35 PM, said:

Alternatively, you can buff Radar Retention so full skills retains a 1 second lock against full Radar Deprivation.

That's what limiting Radar Derp nodes to 15% rather than 20% would do. Top out at eliminating 75% of lock on time. Add some reasonable velocity buffs to that and it might be enough time to land a salvo from range.

1453 R, on 12 August 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:

Feel like lowering maximum natural RaDerp to 80 or 75% wouldn't go amiss. Would put extra emphasis on the 'Mechs that get innate RaDerp quirks, since those normally don't really matter what with everybody grabbing RaDerp anyways, and it feels like unintended behavior that scooting behind a telephone pole can instabreak locks

Exactly. At this point the Hellbringer and other mechs that have this special ability is effectively "one more skill point". Yes, thanks, but whoopie. Make them the ONLY ones that can ninja-vanish with 100% Derp.

(Kinda like the Charger Number Seven is about the only mech that can get 100% crit reduction. This makes it special.)

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 12 August 2022 - 02:01 PM.

[Maj Destruction]

SirNotlag, on 12 August 2022 - 07:12 AM, said:

You possibly have more experience than me than, I play all play styles and I have just found that LRMing has become the least effective for my damage numbers because of these skill nodes. It also rubs me the wrong way that that the radar deprivation nodes completely overide the target delay nodes if the max radar deprivations was 90% then i would at least be getting 0.07seconds per node instead of nothing.

Maybe my positioning is poor for an LRM boat or maybe I am too aggressive But i find i can only farm big damage numbers on matches where its a 12 - 1 stomp in my favour that my team would have won without me because unless my team is steam rolling or I am fresh enough to tank the hits compared to my target the locks just don't seem to stick otherwise.

Looking at your stats, my guess is that you're much more experienced than me, and probably playing the higher tiers....so maybe folks at that level are better at avoiding LRMs? I'm slogging around in T5 over here (been at it less than a year, and I don't play often).

Speaking to some of the other comments here, I will say working LRMs or other weapons systems in such a way that more team work is required, is something I'd like to see. Some of my most enjoyable moments in MWO are when I'm talking and coordinating with my team and we actually accomplish something. The previously mentioned idea of only allowing certain mechs to broadcast or share target info has merit. But the hodge-podge of mechs we often end up with due to matchmaking, might result in slower-paced fights because opponents are simply not finding each other....which, I dunno, might be more interesting.

It *could* really add value to light scouts, for instance...imagine a light sneaking around and getting target info for the whole team. And maybe it would ease the occasional complaints of LRMs being OP.

Matt

Edited by Maj Destruction, 12 August 2022 - 09:39 PM.

[caravann]

Nascar is created because both team don't know each other coordination and many cases there's too many scouts or people who want to pretend to be scouts by using long range weapons who sit and shoot ducks in a barrel. Because of this there's no way around since someone will start to sit and overwatch. Gets kills and sometimes they get killed. If the team has short range is because the mechs are faster and because speed provide an advantage they get away without softening the target. Scouting is impractical because of the overwatch meta where stealth mechs aren't allowed to scout. Instead the entire game is balanced that stealth mechs are meant to hit the other team with a sledgehammer by ambushing in convoy.

[Knownswift]

Just buff non-lock dumbfire.

[LordNothing]

Knownswift, on 13 August 2022 - 04:50 AM, said:

Just buff non-lock dumbfire.

missiles go where the crosshair aims. but a lot of players see it as a waste of ammo. when im using atms in close quarters i often dumbfire the first salvo so i can start to engage instantly rather than when the lock completes. ive seen so many players stand still in the open in a lock stare with their target only to get cored out before they can even fire.

i usually dont use lerms because i prefer either atms or mrms. last time i used them there was an event that called for lerm damage.

[ScrapIron Prime]

LordNothing, on 13 August 2022 - 07:21 AM, said:

missiles go where the crosshair aims. but a lot of players see it as a waste of ammo.

That's velocity again. SRMs velocity is 400, MRMs is 500. LRM velocity is 210 (a bit more for direct fire, but not much more). Making a dumb fire shot at 400 meters with MRMs is easy, it takes them less than a second to get there. But LRMs take twice as long, so it only works if the target stands still or moves extremely predictably.

Raising the velocity of LRMs would allow deadfire to be a better thing and might give you a shot at landing one salvo indirect before the target disappears. (Again, we want to make sure that "sky cancer" doesn't become a thing again, while allowing folks using this weapon system to actually hit things.)

[1453 R]

Also worth noting: LRMs have stupid massive spread when dumbfired. Even against a completely stationary target at 200m, dumbfired LRMs will hit with half the tube count at best. Yes, you can do it, and I've done it before with both Lerms and Attums to put someone who thought they were inviolate on notice. Same as I'll sometimes chunk LB/X-20 fire from my Scorch at someone six hundred meters away - the thunderguns are more like blunderguns at that distance, but I've successfully gotten someone who was sniping or lerming to abandon a spot and stop shooting me/my team simply by landing hit markers. In both cases it's a total waste of ammo with only niche uses at best, namely trying to psyche somebody out and get them to scarper from a position that's superior to yours.

[Bassault]

JPeiper, on 12 August 2022 - 11:36 AM, said:

tier 2

Oh ok.

[Vellron2005]

I've been saying Radar Deprivation needs a nerf for a long while now.

It's absurd that it can happen than you use 5-10 seconds to track a fast moving target and lock it, only to have that lock instantly vanish, or vanish as soon as you fire your alpha.

It is extremely frustrating.

It needs a major nerf..

[Nightbird]

Vellron2005, on 13 August 2022 - 09:31 AM, said:

I've been saying Radar Deprivation needs a nerf for a long while now.

It's absurd that it can happen than you use 5-10 seconds to track a fast moving target and lock it, only to have that lock instantly vanish, or vanish as soon as you fire your alpha.

It is extremely frustrating.

It needs a major nerf..

There are no direct fire weapons that can shoot through solid obstacles, why do you think sensors should be able to? Either you have a direct line of sight, or your spotter, does, otherwise no lock.

[SirNotlag]

Nightbird, on 13 August 2022 - 10:01 AM, said:

There are no direct fire weapons that can shoot through solid obstacles, why do you think sensors should be able to? Either you have a direct line of sight, or your spotter, does, otherwise no lock.

You are comparing apples to salmon here. The direct fire weapons dish out their damage instantly, its takes over a second to gain lock and then the travel time makes it so you have to hold lock longer for the missile to actually connect. The issue isnt that the target has gone behind a building, the issue is that they ran past a light post and now all your missiles have gone "Where did he go?" when you can still clearly see them.

[MPhoenix]

How is Radar Dep a skill? 'My piloting is so good I can disappear from your radar'.

It should be a module like the targeting computers or active probes.
You want Radar Dep, it costs C-Bills, tonnage and a a slot on the mech.

[Nightbird]

SirNotlag, on 13 August 2022 - 11:36 AM, said:

You are comparing apples to salmon here. The direct fire weapons dish out their damage instantly, its takes over a second to gain lock and then the travel time makes it so you have to hold lock longer for the missile to actually connect. The issue isnt that the target has gone behind a building, the issue is that they ran past a light post and now all your missiles have gone "Where did he go?" when you can still clearly see them.

MPhoenix, on 13 August 2022 - 12:08 PM, said:

How is Radar Dep a skill? 'My piloting is so good I can disappear from your radar'.

It should be a module like the targeting computers or active probes.
You want Radar Dep, it costs C-Bills, tonnage and a a slot on the mech.

On the contrary, radar doesn't work through buildings and mountains. The fact there is radar retention in the first place is a joke.