120 replies to this topic

[Enamillion89]

Good update!!

[KabukiOne]

So Vitric Forge will remain bright pink and purple?

[Ken Harkin]

FIX VITRIC OR REMOVE IT. Seriously, I would love this map if every other drop wasn't glaring hot pink everywhere. This is a self imposed problem Piranha, not a balance question subject to taste. FIX IT.

[KursedVixen]

Divkrd, on 22 August 2022 - 10:39 AM, said:

It's also not the place to show your incompetence, if you don't understand snubs, don't propose changes. And yes, i'm glad that they don't listen to people who have no clue what they're talking about, they have DATA for this after all.

I proposed a change and you totally ignored it.

KabukiOne, on 22 August 2022 - 01:19 PM, said:

So Vitric Forge will remain bright pink and purple?

until somebody finds the cause, I guess.

An6ryMan69, on 22 August 2022 - 11:18 AM, said:

This has to be a joke. With this kind of nerf you might as well suggest just removing snubbies from the game.

they do 10 heat in tabletop....

https://www.sarna.ne...i/Snub-Nose_PPC

and explain to me how clans use the ERPPC that does 14.5 heat per shot? I think you'd handle it. Clans actually get worse cooling than INner sphere mechs.



https://mwo.nav-alph...chlab/whk-prime

https://mwo.nav-alph.../mechlab/aws-8q

https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/modules <--- heat sink stats at the bottom.

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 August 2022 - 03:11 PM.

[XenoWraith]

KursedVixen, on 22 August 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

Pinpoint??? No they are not suppose to be pinpoint https://www.sarna.ne...i/Snub-Nose_PPC they are suppose to be shotgun type ppcs that deal splash damage doing 10/8/5 damage getting lower damage the further out it gets and doing 10 heat per shot not 7 heat and not 10+5 damage they are doing as much total damage as a ac 10 pinpoint and the same damage as a clan PPC or guass rifle with the splash included...

Many have wanted table top balance and all of them constantly fail to see why it won’t work in the game. If we followed table top, Clan would be so overpowered no one will ever touch an IS mech. This is a fair compromise. 10 pinpoint brawling damage with splash while both the damage and splash gets reduced any further than optimal range. Instead what we have is a lot better and what we’re getting is a fair compromise.

[KursedVixen]

XenoWraith, on 22 August 2022 - 03:04 PM, said:

Many have wanted table top balance and all of them constantly fail to see why it won’t work in the game. If we followed table top, Clan would be so overpowered no one will ever touch an IS mech. This is a fair compromise. 10 pinpoint brawling damage with splash while both the damage and splash gets reduced any further than optimal range. Instead what we have is a lot better and what we’re getting is a fair compromise.

i think it should do 10 damage total even with splash. Though we cannot fully follow tabletop we can still use it to balance things... And right now Innersphere needs balanced they have too much armor too much range, and too much low heat.

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 August 2022 - 03:18 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Not feeling this patch at all.. really nothing to see here. Why buff already strong mechs and leave others that need assistance like the Osiris and more out? Vindicator? Treb, Griffin jeez have they forgotten they exist.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 22 August 2022 - 04:54 PM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 22 August 2022 - 02:42 PM, said:

and explain to me how clans use the ERPPC that does 14.5 heat per shot?

It is 15 points of heat in the tabletop BattleTech.

KursedVixen, on 22 August 2022 - 02:42 PM, said:

Clans actually get worse cooling than INner sphere mechs.

Clan Double Heat Sink takes up only two slots instead of three slots needed for IS Double Heat Sink:

1) The smaller size of Clan DHS means that you can fit more of them in your Clan 'Mech than you could fit IS DHS in a comparable IS 'Mech.

2) Thanks the smaller size of Clan Endosteel structure and Clan FF-armor you have additional advantage, since comparable IS items need double number of slots that can not be used for IS DHS.

3) You can place Clan DHS in legs and center torso of your Clan 'Mech where IS DHS would not fit in a comparable IS 'Mech.

4) You can place more Clan DHS in arms of your Clan 'Mech than you could fit IS DHS in a comparable IS 'Mech.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 22 August 2022 - 10:06 PM, said:

It is 15 points of heat in the tabletop BattleTech.



Clan Double Heat Sink takes up only two slots instead of three slots needed for IS Double Heat Sink:

1) The smaller size of Clan DHS means that you can fit more of them in your Clan 'Mech than you could fit IS DHS in a comparable IS 'Mech.

2) Thanks the smaller size of Clan Endosteel structure and Clan FF-armor you have additional advantage, since comparable IS items need double number of slots that can not be used for IS DHS.

3) You can place Clan DHS in legs and center torso of your Clan 'Mech where IS DHS would not fit in a comparable IS 'Mech.

4) You can place more Clan DHS in arms of your Clan 'Mech than you could fit IS DHS in a comparable IS 'Mech.

yet everythign clan is hotter,(except ballstics and srms) and we get little compensation for that, Clan doubles also still use one ton so if you don't have the tonnage you still can't add heat sinks, also clan heat sinks have less health so you can lose them easier, further causing heat build up. MEanwhile what's the hottest gun Inner sphere gets? The heavy ppc does 13 damage, still less than the clan ERPPC and yet it does more damage. You don't need all that heat reduction, secondly this is no longer clan vs innersphere clans can fight each other. Also most clan mechs are Omnis and cannot remove ferro or endo, or even change heat sink type.

They buffed single heat sinks along time ago to make them in some aspects better than double heat sinks

Also even though clans endo and ferro weigh less clans still get lower armor so again the whole weight savings only goes to components usually.


Also in tabletop both the clan and the IS ERPPC do 15 heat, yet in game it's clan 14.5, IS: 12

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 August 2022 - 03:30 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

yet everythign clan is hotter,

No, not everything Clan is hotter than IS. For example IS AC-10 produces 2.5 heat points, but Clan AC-10 only 2 points.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

and we get little compensation for that,

In my post above I listed four features that really help Clan 'Mechs when it comes to cooling their waste heat.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

Clan doubles also still use one ton so if you don't have the tonnage you still can't add heat sinks,

Clan doubles are more compact than IS doubles AND thanks the usual benefit of Clan 'Mechs being equipped with both weight-saving ES and FFA, Clan 'Mechs have typically more saved tonnage (than IS 'Mechs) and enough internal space where to place their doubles.

On top of that, Clan XL engines (another usual Clan technology) save them both tonnage and the internal space in their 'Mechs. Please note that Clan XL engines are more compact than IS XL engines.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

also clan heat sinks have less health so you can lose them easier, further causing heat build up.

That happens after you remove armor from Clan 'Mechs - and this is not so simple, considering that Clan 'Mechs often start the fight with the range advantage thanks their longer-ranged weapons.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

MEanwhile what's the hottest gun Inner sphere gets? The heavy ppc does 13 damage, still less than the clan ERPPC and yet it does more damage.

Heavy PPC does 15 damage for 13 heat.
Clan ER PPC does 15 damage for 14.5 heat.

However, Heavy PPC has 90 m minimum range and 540 m optimal range.
Clan ER PPC has no minimum range at all and its optimal range is 810 m.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

You don't need all that heat reduction, secondly this is no longer clan vs innersphere clans can fight each other.

It seems to me that you are arguing with yourself.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

Also most clan mechs are Omnis and cannot remove ferro or endo, or even change heat sink type.

That's the price you are paying for cherrypicking various OmniPods with diverse hardpoints and other equipment to suit your needs - something, what no IS 'Mechs in MWO can do.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

Also both in tabletop both the clan and the IS ERPPC do 15 heat, yet in game it's clan 14.5, IS: 12

First, MechWarrior Online is not the same thing as the tabletop BattleTech.

Second, you forgot to mention that IS ER PPC does only 10 points of damage in comparison with Clan ER PPC and its 15 points of damage.

---

If you wish to discuss this matter further, I suggest that you start a new thread.

Edited by martian, 23 August 2022 - 04:29 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

martian, on 23 August 2022 - 03:29 AM, said:

If you wish to discuss this matter further, I suggest that you start a new thread.

Oh, yeah, it seems to me that it's been a while since we had our last "{pick faction} is OP, pls nerf" discussion...

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 02:31 AM, said:

Clan doubles also still use one ton so if you don't have the tonnage you still can't add heat sinks, also clan heat sinks have less health so you can lose them easier, further causing heat build up.

Just so you know, IS doubles are 50% more likely to catch a crit because they are taking up more slots.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 23 August 2022 - 03:53 AM.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 23 August 2022 - 03:29 AM, said:

No, not everything Clan is hotter than IS. For example Clan AC-10 produces 2.5 heat points, but IS AC-10 only 2 points.

C-ac 10 is a solid slug LBXand is not the same thing as the IS ac-10 and even then it shoots in 3-4 shot burst. Also last i recall 2.5 is more than 2.

martian, on 23 August 2022 - 03:29 AM, said:

Heavy PPC does 15 damage for 13 heat.
Clan ER PPC does 15 damage for 14.5 heat.

However, Heavy PPC has 90 m minimum range and 540 m optimal range.
Clan ER PPC has no minimum range at all and its optimal range is 810 m.

Actually clan ERPPC does 10 damage plus five splash...like the snub nose. it does not do 15 pinpoint, the heavy PPc does do 15 pinpoint.

so actually.
CERPPC does 10+5 splash and has no minimium range. it's optimum range is 810 but it will only do 10 damage +5 splash, and reduced damage beyond that up to 1650m.

Heavy PPC does 15 damage and has a 90m minimum range it's optimum range is 540 but it can reach out to 1080 so your probably still doing 14 damage at around 550m

Also if we're going to get into PPCs Light ppc.
And ERPPC also has no minimium range.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 August 2022 - 04:03 AM.

[KursedVixen]

(redundant doulbe post.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 August 2022 - 03:57 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 03:52 AM, said:

C-ac 10 is a solid slug LBXand is not the same thing as the IS ac-10 and even then it shoots in 3-4 shot burst. Also last i recall 2.5 is more than 2.

Thanks for noticing. Clan AC-10 runs cooler than it IS AC-10.

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 03:52 AM, said:

Actually clan ERPPC ...

If you wish to discuss this matter further, I suggest that you start a new thread.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 23 August 2022 - 04:28 AM, said:

If you wish to discuss this matter further, I suggest that you start a new thread.

Then why did you respond to me? Also I suggest looking at my profile before you just ignore everything I said, or take it as some kid whining...


I still think the snub nose needs more of a nerf maybe just reducing the overall damage to 10 will stop the snub spam? or maybe increasing the cooldown? I highly doubt increasing the heat by one will stop the double snub urbies i see running around.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 August 2022 - 05:23 AM.

[MrVaad]

Ken Harkin, on 22 August 2022 - 02:18 PM, said:

FIX VITRIC OR REMOVE IT. Seriously, I would love this map if every other drop wasn't glaring hot pink everywhere. This is a self imposed problem Piranha, not a balance question subject to taste. FIX IT.

KursedVixen, on 22 August 2022 - 02:42 PM, said:

until somebody finds the cause, I guess.

I sent the fix to François last month, he did it while speaking with me on the 26/07.

I've posted a few explanations in this post : https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6468081
In short, It was two missing cubemap textures. And I've tested the fix with AMD/NVIDIA users.

François regenerated the missing textures on his side. So it should be in this patch or the next one (depending if that patch's content was already closed).

Edited by MrVaad, 23 August 2022 - 08:02 AM.

[KursedVixen]

MrVaad, on 23 August 2022 - 08:02 AM, said:

I sent the fix to François last month, he did it while speaking with me on the 26/07.

I've posted a few explanations in this post : https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6468081
In short, It was two missing cubemap textures. And I've tested the fix with AMD/NVIDIA users.

François regenerated the missing textures on his side. So it should be in this patch or the next one (depending if that patch's content was already closed).

ah so it was missing textures? i wondered because it looked similar to another game when missing textures.

[MrVaad]

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

ah so it was missing textures? i wondered because it looked similar to another game when missing textures.

It's a cubemap texture. So a texture used in reflections and lightning effects

In that case :

• NVIDIA users don't get the related lighting effects (a blue hue where the star/moon lights objects, like in vitric forge)
  
• AMD users get pink everywhere.

Edited by MrVaad, 23 August 2022 - 08:54 AM.

[KursedVixen]

MrVaad, on 23 August 2022 - 08:52 AM, said:

It's a cubemap texture. So a texture used in reflections and lightning effects

In that case :

• NVIDIA users don't get the related lighting effects (a blue hue like in vitric forge)
  
• AMD users get pink everywhere.

I wonder why that is.... this would also explain why i've never seen this problem in vitric forge.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 August 2022 - 08:53 AM.

[ExoForce]

[color=#CCCCCC]*Innersphere LRMs now fire in a single salvo regardless of the launcher tube count*[/color]

Cyrilis, on 22 August 2022 - 10:52 AM, said:

[/b]

Speaking for myself, I want my 1 tube NARC slot back. I have been around long enough to squeeze am LRM 20 out of a raven on that thing...

Single salvo was implemented for Stalker 3F years ago.

I want back Stalker variant with 6 + 10 tubes, leave the current also.

Edited by ExoForce, 23 August 2022 - 09:19 AM.