Aidan Crenshaw, on 30 August 2022 - 12:47 AM, said:
Maybe the UAC10 then isn't the optimal choice on the SHD-5M?
Thank you captain obvious. The UAC10 isn't merely sub-optimal on the SHD-5M, it's not even viable. I want to fix that. I dumped the SHD-5M altogether in favor of the SHD-2D because it became clear to me the UAC20 was the only UAC weapon viable on the SHD-5M but the heavy weight of that weapon and it's excessive ammo tax create their own issues as well for a medium mech. This is my final optimized build for the SHD-2D:
https://mwo.nav-alph...b59bbb74_SHD-2D
The main gun is a RAC/5 which DRAMATICALLY increases the damage output of the mech. It has an additional SRM4 mount in the CT that the SHD-5M doesn't have, and 2x Light PPC. The mech moves faster thanks to an XL engine which is made possible by the -40% crit chance quirk on this variant along with the extra armor quirk on the LT. The SHD-2D is a much more configurable variant than the SHD-5M
Knownswift, on 30 August 2022 - 01:01 AM, said:
That sounds pretty undergunned, tbqh. I have no problem with it being bad.
The UAC10 isn't the only weapon on the mech. I didn't think you would care.
Nightbird, on 30 August 2022 - 06:31 AM, said:
Even when 1 of a pair jams, you're outputting the same as 2 AC10s. When both are operating, you're outputting 4AC10s. UACs basically obsolete the regular ACs since only the slight amount of time when both are jammed are you actually worse off.
All valid points about garbage vanilla AC weapons which I have never mounted on any of the 8 mechs I own. You're not addressing the relative balance of jam mechanics within the UAC family though.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 30 August 2022 - 06:59 AM, said:
so, basically another "I know better, things should work my way" thread.. good luck with that.
Do you have anything constructive to add to the discussion? I didn't think so. Begone gnat.
Curccu, on 30 August 2022 - 07:59 AM, said:
...it's just bad because it does not have enough hardpoints and quirks are not good enough to make it even decent.
Indeed. That's why I gave up on it in favor of the SHD-2D. If the ammo tax on 2 and 5 caliber weapons was fixed and if the UAC/10 had a reasonable jam duration the mech would be much more viable again. Sadly, in it's current state it's simply a bad mech not worth playing at all.
Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 August 2022 - 09:13 AM, said:
I'd honestly rather see jam durations be less wide ranged and jam chances come up on the higher bore weapons...
That said, the UAC10 jam chance is probably hold over from when the UAC10 was running rampant and is somewhat of a counterbalance to the fact is has a damage ammo per ton compared to other ACs.
An interesting proposal. That would probably make high caliber UAC weapons really annoying to use though if their jam chance were to be significantly increased to compensate for their jam duration being significantly decreased. For example, if the IS UAC/10 had it's jam chance doubled up to 30% but it's jam duration cut in half down to 3.75s it would be jamming on roughly every 3rd shot and there would become a significant likelihood of experiencing double-jams, a jam immediately followed by another jam. I think the danger posed by double jam's makes your proposal nonviable.
LordNothing, on 30 August 2022 - 12:01 PM, said:
1. problem is when that jam happens after you commit to brawl which gets a lot of players dead.
2. its still worth it because it works more often than not, and provided you have other weapons that you can use while you wait for a jam to clear.
3. the 10s work better because its something you can trade from a range well outside of other high damage weapons
4. i think the uac10 is the strongest ballistic and the fact that its a good all rounder just makes it much more useful. the 20 is only useful to obligate brawlers.
1. Indeed. Or if your position is charged by the enemy and there's no where else to run to. You must stand and fight. Getting a jam on the UAC10 in this circumstance is catastrophic. When a jam happens, you don't get to fire immediately after the jam clears. The red bar cooldown of the weapon picks up where it left off when the jam occurred and you cannot fire until the red bar finishes clearing. Timing with a stopwatch, I found that a jam on the UAC10 resulted in me having to wait around 8 seconds before I could fire it again. (6.375s jam duration with skills + 1.5s continuation of weapon cooldown) This is unacceptable.
2. It's SO not worth it. Sitting there firing 2xSRM4s and 2xMedium Pulse lasers due to the UAC10 being jammed is not enough firepower to give pause to an assault mech charging your position and the MPLs can only be used against short range targets. You must retreat and if you can't, you die.
3. There seems to be a misperception that 10 caliber weapons are long range. They're not. It's not hard for the enemy to close the gap against a 10 caliber weapon. The 10 caliber is good for peek shots. Over time, taking multiple peek shots helps the damage output of the uac10 catch back up to the uac20. Once again, this doesn't matter much when your position is being charged or you're caught by surprise.
4. If there wasn't such a bad jam duration on the weapon I would agree with that statement. I think you're being somewhat dismissive of the UAC20 which is the most destructive weapon in the game.
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Some more maths:
This chart shows the chances a given UAC weapon can fire through 1 or 2 tons of ammo without suffering any jams.
1. It's nearly impossible for a UAC/2 to go through 1 or 2 tons of ammo without a jam.
2. It's very rare for a UAC/5 to go through 1 ton of ammo without a jam (1/20 for IS, 1/30 for Clan) and freakishly rare to go through 2 tons without a jam.
3. It's rare for a UAC/10 to go through 1 ton of ammo without a jam (1/8 for IS, 1/12 for Clan) and extremely rare to go through 2 tons without a jam. (1/80 for IS, 1/150 for Clan)
4. It's COMMON for a UAC/20 to go through 1 ton ammo without a jam (1/2 for IS, 2/5 for clan) and merely UNCOMMON to go through 2 tons without a jam. (1/4 for IS, 1/6 for Clan)
These numbers are crazy. The idea that the UAC/20 needs to be given such tremendous jam advantages due to it being a brawling weapon is silly. You may say the opportunity cost of a UAC/20 jam is much higher than a UAC/2 jam but that doesn't really mean much of the UAC/20 doesn't jam at all in the process of getting a kill now does it? That's also compensated for anyway by the dramatically higher number of times a UAC/2 will jam over the course of using a ton of ammo.
I think I just proved that the nerfs I proposed for the UAC/20 are too mild and don't go nearly far enough in balancing the weapon. (By the way, I also believe the UAC/10 and UAC/20 should both have their weight increased by +0.5 tons to help balance them vs vanilla AC cannons.)
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