70 replies to this topic

[sayerszero]

Over the last year of re-works and pass overs of various mechs, quirks, and weapons function. There is a still a severe lack of support or reason to run brawling mechs. Very few maps allow for highly defensible of offensive positioning (especially as a pug) in a close quarters combat role. In fact, building for brawling without the entire team constructed to support that play, tends to render it a detriment.

Every single drop is snipers, lights with machine gun/laser spam, pop-tarts, lrms, and some various alpha strike heavy/assault builds from a distance. Every single map is go for lrms, even Solaris City. Yet, there are no maps that make long distance mechs (snipers and lrms) as ineffective as brawlers are without a planned drop.

I am sure there are exceptions to this and many will refute what I am saying for the handful of matches that have witnessed. I admit that I can't account for every game played every day. At the end of all that, the most common matches are going to be ones with cheap shots, surprise alpha strikes, and a lot of long distance.

With Solaris effectively dead in the water, the main map designer going, there is becoming little reason to continue supporting this game over any other FPS out there. When I can watch a match of Fortnite and MWO side by side and see the exact kind of gameplay, with different skins/settings. Why bother continuing?

I have greatly enjoyed other Mechwarrior titles including BattleTech and MW5, those feel like actual Mechwarrior games. MWO, feels more and more like a differently skinned FPS shooter/looter. If that's your aim, kudos, you did it! I'd like to think it's not the case. I hope to see more smaller team events happening a lot more frequently using the Solaris maps, if not permanently. I especially hope this since it seems the issue of Clan vs IS lopsidedness looks to never going to be addressed.

Lastly, the fact that pop-tarts are even a thing in MWO is sickening.

[MechWarrior0001431]

PGI permitted Cauldron to nerf diversity. This was done, without PGI'S understanding (PGI is oblivious), to benefit the playstyle of a particular bloc within the Cauldron who were able to out-vote others on numerous occasions. Dead game was made even deader by incompetent developer and group of amateurs without development experience. Cauldron stans will argue otherwise despite a complete lack of understanding about how and why changes are made. Facts.

Source: I know stuff.

[Abisha]

agree with both of you.

the game is fuc*** up good by Cauldron they given the final push over the cliff it's total broken and diversity is totally gone.
even 3 years ago the game balance was better then now.

[Knownswift]

sayerszero, on 11 September 2022 - 09:51 PM, said:

When I can watch a match of Fortnite and MWO side by side and see the exact kind of gameplay, with different skins/settings. Why bother continuing?

lol

[Rondoe]

As a veteran in the United States Armed Services I was taught to be "Fluid" in any given situation.

Warfare is a very fluid situation- you either adapt to survive or you die.

This game is a game of walking tanks (albeit ones that can shoot ballistics, energy and missile's)

Learn to adapt.

If you walk into a valley and immediately your squad, platoon, etc. is getting ripped apart by snipers, artillery you use the terrain to your advantage-hide, regroup, and ffs call for help.

The biggest thing I find in this game is not using voice coms to strategize an offense or defense.

People get dumb in QP and either want to be a lone wolf badass (usually ends horribly) or one person will climb up out of the ditch and push, everyone else runs away.....Thanks!!!

Or they will go in all guns blazing to help a team mate, team mate runs off-hey thanks for the support!!! Just saved yer 6 and leave me to die

Ok well the last 2 are kinda the same thing.

Comms are vital.

People get blood lust and want to get that almighty match score or pad their stats on the leader boards.

This is not how warfare is conducted.

It's about having your teams best interest at heart, everyone support each other for the greater good.

I know this is a freaking video game. Not real warfare.

ADAPT OR DIE, REMAIN FLUID, WATCH YOUR SIX, AND ALWAYS HAVE YOUR BUDDIES BACK!!

Quit complaining about the map, the META, blah blah blah. Just because the game doesn't just cater to your specific style or mindset, Keep your head down, use terrain, be smart about your engagements.

ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WARFARE!

If you see that guy wandering out into no mans land and taking heavy fire ffs don't run away and hide, support him and back him up as best you are able. Don't think they are a dumbarse (well they might be) but lay down some suppressive fire till they can get into position.

That is all MechWarriors.

[Curccu]

I don't think cauldrons snipy **** buffs are the issue by themselves but simultaneous map redesing to support so newly those buffed snipy shits is the issue.

Poptarting has been a thing since CTF-3D was released and IMO nothing to wrong with it, just one playstyle among others. But I would like to know why is it sickening?


PS. I can play snipy **** (erll, erppc, gauss, AC2 etc.) well but it is something I do not enjoy almost at all.

[Curccu]

Rondoe, on 12 September 2022 - 12:02 AM, said:

I know this is a freaking video game. Not real warfare.

ADAPT OR DIE, REMAIN FLUID, WATCH YOUR SIX, AND ALWAYS HAVE YOUR BUDDIES BACK!!

Quit complaining about the map, the META, blah blah blah. Just because the game doesn't just cater to your specific style or mindset, Keep your head down, use terrain, be smart about your engagements.

ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WARFARE!

Because this is a game and not real warfare like you said there is also option to play some other game that player likes more.

[C E Dwyer]

The Cauldron always attacked PGI as making a bad game.
What they were really saying is you didn't make the game we wanted.

P.G.I always tried to make a game, that allowed you to play a mixture, of builds.

They pushed for tables, so they could point at the less skilled players to shame them into shutting, up.

They pushed for solaris so they could point to how good they were, a total waste of money. only the better players were going to sniff at it after the first month..

Now they have control of the game.

After years of accusing P.G.I of making a bad game. of saying they should be listening to them more, if they want a popular game...


I'm still waiting for the stampead, of returning players, due to what the cauldron, have done to the game.

[Yllirion]

C E Dwyer, on 12 September 2022 - 02:23 AM, said:

I'm still waiting for the stampead, of returning players, due to what the cauldron, have done to the game.

Lowest population of MWO players was at feb 2020, its 3 month before the Cauldron's pathes

[Abisha]

Yllirion, on 12 September 2022 - 03:07 AM, said:

Lowest population of MWO players was at feb 2020, its 3 month before the Cauldron's pathes

unfortunate a chart proves absolute nothing.
Season 30 to 70 have a very balanced infusion of new players
also from Season 60 to 70 is downwards trending. (look season 60 compare to 65 a new lower)

only thing what one can say it's is MWO is bleeding dry (new players ain't staying) that's only thing you can read from this chart.

Edited by Abisha, 12 September 2022 - 03:24 AM.

[Curccu]

Abisha, on 12 September 2022 - 03:20 AM, said:

unfortunate a chart proves absolute nothing.
Season 30 to 70 have a very balanced infusion of new players
also from Season 60 to 70 is downwards trending. (look season 60 compare to 65 a new lower)

only thing what one can say it's is MWO is bleeding dry (new players ain't staying) that's only thing you can read from this chart.

Well it shows that loads of players returned about same time Cauldron took control of balancing, punch of those have quit again probably.

Amount of new players is pretty same with ups and downs since season 25. Would be nice to know what amount of these "new players" are alts of old players, but that is pretty much impossible (for even PGI) to know.

I don't see that chart saying new players won't stay? It just shows that some players (me included) haven't played game lately.

[Bud Crue]

Overall I think the Caldron changes have been mostly for the good of the game. I will agree however that brawling as a solo, or even in a small group, it can be challenging to outright depressing in most of the once popular builds.

Yes, for the pendants out there, there are still some exceptions, but most non-SNPPC brawlers are too slow, too big, or too under gunned to be consistently effective in this game. My gut feel is that SRMs and MPL need a buff, but I tend to dislike broad weapon class based buffs, because I also find that certain mechs still can perform with these weapons adequately. Ironically, it seems like it's the bigger mechs that I feel are less playable with these weapons than lighter mechs (e.g., I can still consistently perform in an SRM Myst Lynx, or Arctic Wolf, but SRM Linebacker or even the recently buffed Catapult are just much more difficult to perform in). So I am not sure what the solution is other than mechs specific buffs but IO am not sure that is feasible given the little staffing still dedicated to this game.

Also, some Caldron folks keep saying that sniper play is no more prevalent these days than it has ever been. But in my games, there are consistently at least 4 or more mechs (often running as a four man) with Gauss/ERLL, just ERLL spam, ERPPCs, or even mere LPPCs on the periphery of most fights, and it is these mechs that more often than not decide the match. Take that for what its worth.

[Abisha]

Curccu, on 12 September 2022 - 04:32 AM, said:

Well it shows that loads of players returned about same time Cauldron took control of balancing, punch of those have quit again probably.

Amount of new players is pretty same with ups and downs since season 25. Would be nice to know what amount of these "new players" are alts of old players, but that is pretty much impossible (for even PGI) to know.

I don't see that chart saying new players won't stay? It just shows that some players (me included) haven't played game lately.

you can read that new "players" because it's like around 2500 players per season is new (season is 3 months?) it means from season 43 to 73 it would be 40.000 players new (the above said average of 20.000 players) in season 25 you see around 22.000 players playing MWO that means no new players being added to the player base.

[KodiakGW]

To OP - I actually had a lot of brawls the last time I was able to play Event Queue. Back during the end of May, when they ran it from Friday to Wednesday (with a break on Monday). Urbie Derby was the funnest. Since then, they have only run it when I was busy with IRL things.

Just too bad they decided to only run it for a much shorter period, once a month, since that fun week

Been enjoying getting my mech fix with Yet Another Mechlab and other MW5 mods. Giving the Pilot Overhaul mod a try now. Either that, or the latest YAML has made the AI lance mates significantly better.

PS - Don’t forget the main mech designer, Mark, is also gone.

[Bassault]

This post is completely unfathomable to me.

It is ONLY NOT viable with ASSAULT MECHS, and this is because they are TOO SLOW. Let me say that again for you to understand. Assaults are big and slow. Close range weapons require you to close the distance. Being slow as hell AND having no range is a very bad combination. Even then, if you are good and know where to go on the map, you can pull it off and do pretty well (look at the Fafnir 2 ac20 4 snub or Annihilator 1E with 7 Snub Nose PPC, Executioner 2 ERPPC 13 UPL & SPL). However, for the vast majority of assaults, brawling is sub optimal. PLENTY of maps provide ample position to brawl. You are the one who does not know how to play, NOT the game's fault.

Heavies, Mediums and Lights however do not struggle in any way at all to brawl. Look at any of DATA's videos on lights and mediums brawling. Look at the Crusader with snubs and small lasers, Orions, Craels, Deadside Marauders, SRM summoners, SRM CATAPULTS, and even Black Knights can brawl. The meta has been more diverse than it ever has been, previously labeled shitmechs are now being used, almost every mech has two or more viable builds at different range brackets.

This entire post demonstrates a critical lack of understanding of the game. How could you say with so much confidence that LRMs work in Solaris? Are you serious? LRMs are hot dogshit ever since Radar Deprivation was put in the new skill tree, and Solaris city is FILLED with cover against LRMs, there's only like 2 parts of the map where an LRM mech can sling at you. In my brawl assaults I have something of a 5.00 winrate on Solaris. You clearly are doing something wrong.

How could you say that the game is not like other MW titles? Back in MW4 you could fire 4 gauss rifles at the same time or stack heavy lasers on your dire wolf and they were really PPFLD, allowing you to instakill people or tear a component off in one alpha. Poptarting was in a thing in the old MW games, the AI even did it to you. You are the one who needs to change what you're doing. If you'd like more in-depth help so you can understand what you're doing wrong, I'd be happy to help you.

Edited by I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, 12 September 2022 - 08:35 AM.

[Bassault]

Bud Crue, on 12 September 2022 - 04:51 AM, said:

Also, some Caldron folks keep saying that sniper play is no more prevalent these days than it has ever been. But in my games, there are consistently at least 4 or more mechs (often running as a four man) with Gauss/ERLL, just ERLL spam, ERPPCs, or even mere LPPCs on the periphery of most fights, and it is these mechs that more often than not decide the match. Take that for what its worth.

The only reason why sniping is such a problem is because pugs continuously decide to NASCAR without failure, ceaselessly and endlessly. Pugs will vote for long-range maps, then they'll NASCAR as hard as possible. This means that all anyone has to do to farm big damage is to set up a sniping position slightly to the left (Think the junkyard in Canyon Network for example) and shoot the morons that appear in front of them. Going left, or going in other directions, however, makes it so that the Sniper has to be moving around more to find better sightlines or take worse positions, which diminishes his carrying power. Also waiting for your assaults to be in effective range to deal with snipers also helps, and this is only possible when you don't NASCAR.

I'll never understand the pugs crying about snipers when they are the #1 enablers of the practice. If you stopped NASCAR'ing, maybe so many people wouldn't need to have a super long range independent playstyle, but the pugs keep banging their head against the wall, demanding less snipers but continuously NASCAR'ing. When I try to play a sub 700m assault mech, it's always the same story. Team NASCARs, I get left behind and I either have to fight off the enemy NASCAR by myself or I get lucky and my team decides to hold with me. You can skip all that hassle by just sniping. Go ahead, team, NASCAR like morons. I'll just farm the enemy team without even moving from where I am. There you go. Stop NASCARing.

Edited by I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, 12 September 2022 - 06:38 AM.

[Nightbird]

Yllirion, on 12 September 2022 - 03:07 AM, said:

Lowest population of MWO players was at feb 2020, its 3 month before the Cauldron's pathes

First cauldron patch was April 2021 right? You're attributing to the Cauldron what you should to COVID.

[1453 R]

Translation:
"I'm upset that long range weapons exist. I want every game to be a 270-meter slugfest with no movement, no cover, no positioning, and no attempts at all to do anything but charge the enemy head-on and click my AC/20 button until one of us dies, just like in the good old days of 2012-ish. I blame the Cauldron, because it's easier to pick on players than it is to pick on developers. I'm not going to listen to facts, reason, logic, rational discourse, or anything else because I hate everything but BDB - Big Dumb Brawling. Smart brawling is too much work, and I don't care that people who brawl more intelligently have been doing phenomenally well the whole time. I want to just BDB all day every day, two teams charging each other across a flat field with no weapon that can damage an enemy outside of 270 meters. That's my fun, and I won't hear any of this 'thinking man's shooter' garbage."

[Nightbird]

1453 R, on 12 September 2022 - 06:54 AM, said:

Translation:
"I'm upset that long range weapons exist. I want every game to be a 270-meter slugfest with no movement, no cover, no positioning, and no attempts at all to do anything but charge the enemy head-on and click my AC/20 button until one of us dies, just like in the good old days of 2012-ish. I blame the Cauldron, because it's easier to pick on players than it is to pick on developers. I'm not going to listen to facts, reason, logic, rational discourse, or anything else because I hate everything but BDB - Big Dumb Brawling. Smart brawling is too much work, and I don't care that people who brawl more intelligently have been doing phenomenally well the whole time. I want to just BDB all day every day, two teams charging each other across a flat field with no weapon that can damage an enemy outside of 270 meters. That's my fun, and I won't hear any of this 'thinking man's shooter' garbage."

Before Cauldron patches, at the world championships, how much brawling occurred? Almost none. Are you claiming those top teams took range instead of brawl because they didn't understand the game, or was balance was always in favor of long range even back then?

That most of the people didn't use them was the people's preference. Can you get off your high horse?

[1453 R]

I was being sarcastic, Nightbird. My absolute best-performing 'Mech is a Scorch configured with two LB/X-20 thunderguns and a quartet of SRM-6s.

"Brawling" in the sense of "let's get 16/24 'Mechs all within three hundred meters of each other in a giant hyperviolent mosh pit in the middle of the map and click nonstop until everybody's dead" is gone, yes. That game died in/around 2013, and good riddance. "Brawling", in the sense that 'Mechs configured to deliver maximum close-range firepower and not relent on their assault until the enemy is dead, is perfectly valid. A brawler simply has to pick their ground and their moment, they can't charge into the teeth of an entire enemy team across barren ground and expect to accomplish jack monkey squat. It's something I've been telling both of the new players that started MWO in our circle recently - no amount of armor lets you facetank four times your weight in metal.

BDB proponents want 'Brawlers' to be invincible engines of godlike devastation, utterly immune to a feeble flaccid sniper's ineffectual counterfire within the Holy Range of 270 meters. Here's the thing - they are. If my Scorch gets in on a dual-Gauss snipey thing, or an ERLL sniper, or a PPC poptart? That range-centric 'Mech dies for free, and I generally take less than twenty percent integrity in return fire. But I've got to earn that seal clubbing by managing to get close to that sniper with my weapons and armor intact. He deserves the chance to discourage my attack by being better at sniping than I am at stalking, and if he wins? He earned that win, same as I did. The hex AC/2 Rifleman that managed to secure a commanding vantage point on a Domination match, empty its autocannons, and score over a thousand damage earned that fat payout just as much as the brawly monster assault that managed to wade into a fight and score the same thousand damage.

The original post isn't "I want brawling to be a valid playstyle!" It's "I want brawling to be the only playstyle, and not even smart brawling where you skulk and stalk and slither and ambush your prey for a back-alley mugging. Naw. I want BDB, Big Dumb Brawling, and to Hell with whatever anybody else enjoys."