37 replies to this topic

[Necroconvict]

More work on MW5 seems around the corner... I wish a this point we'd let the modders do their thing, and somehow convince the employees to keep working on MWO. They are both fun, but I really feel MWO needs yet more mechs! As well as more maps, and perhaps some map tuning like our classic Terra Therma. It's a bit rough. I guess I hope MWO isn't just becoming a cash grab with things like the most recent Crusader pack, and platinum packs coming out frequently enough to bring in money, but... it doesn't feel like that money is being reinvested as well.

MW5 is alright, but I know very few people that don't play it modded, and those that do... eventually have started over modded, so they can build mechs like we can here in MWO.

I don't know.. I'm old, distracted, and I ramble, and don't like to see old things slowly die.... look bacon!

Otherwise I'd say I'd like a MWO2, but I doubt there would be any grandfathering in of all old mechs, or some old mechs to players who have purchased so much here. I know I'd hate to rebuy my like 150 mechs, and mechbays... and certainly the same for others that have hundreds more.

[martian]

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

More work on MW5 seems around the corner...

This sounds interesting. How do you know that, please?

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

They are both fun, but I really feel MWO needs yet more mechs!

Maybe. But current PGI's MWO staff is tiny.

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

As well as more maps, and perhaps some map tuning like our classic Terra Therma. It's a bit rough.

Maybe rough in some areas, but in my opinion not as bad as some players say.

Actually, I have had some good games on TTC, both in the Quick Play queue and in the Event queue.

I feel that with some fine tuning it could be a good map.

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

I guess I hope MWO isn't just becoming a cash grab with things like the most recent Crusader pack, and platinum packs coming out frequently enough to bring in money, but... it doesn't feel like that money is being reinvested as well.

Money is also needed to keep MWO lights on.

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

MW5 is alright, but I know very few people that don't play it modded, and those that do... eventually have started over modded, so they can build mechs like we can here in MWO.

This is the main difference: MWO can not be modded, MW5: Mercs can.

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

I don't know.. I'm old, distracted, and I ramble, and don't like to see old things slowly die.... look bacon!

You are not that old!

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

Otherwise I'd say I'd like a MWO2, but I doubt there would be any grandfathering in of all old mechs, or some old mechs to players who have purchased so much here. I know I'd hate to rebuy my like 150 mechs, and mechbays... and certainly the same for others that have hundreds more.

The PGI's MechWarrior licence ends in 2025 (or 2026?). PGI will not start working on MWO2 with the possible loss of licence in three years in sight (not to talk about the lack of money and manpower).

[Kiiyor]

I'd love to see the engine change, personally, to the MW5 engine.

Realistically though, there's probably not a huge amount of future content coming to MWO, aside from Cauldron tweaks and balance changes (which are more than welcome), due to recent staff movements. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised though.

I'm ok with throwing cash at the devs for packs like the Crusader though. There have been some pretty generous events this last few seasons, and the rewards program this year is fantastic. Happy to contribute to the power bills.

[martian]

Kiiyor, on 08 October 2022 - 02:55 AM, said:

Realistically though, there's probably not a huge amount of future content coming to MWO, aside from Cauldron tweaks and balance changes (which are more than welcome), due to recent staff movements. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised though.
...

Who knows? Maybe EG7 will decide to renew their MechWarrior licence and start anew, learning from Russ Bullock's mistakes.

[Lucky Noob]

martian, on 08 October 2022 - 03:05 AM, said:

Who knows? Maybe EG7 will decide to renew their MechWarrior licence and start anew, learning from Russ Bullock's mistakes.

ah let me dream about,

[martian]

Lucky Noob, on 08 October 2022 - 03:19 AM, said:

ah let me dream about,

Dreaming is free.



Does anybody still remember this intro?

[D o z e r]

Great post. I have always thought that, from a business/market perspective, PGI doesn't realize how much of an asset MWO and the MWO community is. The base is resilient, and very loyal. Unlike other FPS games, Mechwarrior/Battletech play isn't easily copied or replicated, nor is the lore. And having a smallish but dedicated/loyal community as a base is something a lot of fps/online games dream of having.

They could invest significantly into MWO and not only reinvigorate the base community, but attract a ton of new players too. Something like an engine overhaul, MW5 integration etc. coupled with a big marketing splash.

Henry Ford said "If you think you can do it, you're right. If you think you can't do it, you're also right." If Devs/PGI see MWO as a fading game, it'll remain in current state. But if they envision a future where it becomes a cutting edge game again with mainstream numbers and appeal, that is also possible.

Edited by D O Z E R, 08 October 2022 - 06:06 AM.

[LordNothing]

pgi's big problem was creating an arena shooter in an open world market. the game has a feature set of a tech demo from the early '00s with all the baggage of a modern f2p. and that was at release. even mw5 feels a bit dated.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Necroconvict, on 06 October 2022 - 09:14 PM, said:

More work on MW5 seems around the corner... I wish a this point we'd let the modders do their thing, and somehow convince the employees to keep working on MWO. They are both fun, but I really feel MWO needs yet more mechs! As well as more maps, and perhaps some map tuning like our classic Terra Therma. It's a bit rough. I guess I hope MWO isn't just becoming a cash grab with things like the most recent Crusader pack, and platinum packs coming out frequently enough to bring in money, but... it doesn't feel like that money is being reinvested as well.

MW5 is alright, but I know very few people that don't play it modded, and those that do... eventually have started over modded, so they can build mechs like we can here in MWO.

I don't know.. I'm old, distracted, and I ramble, and don't like to see old things slowly die.... look bacon!

Otherwise I'd say I'd like a MWO2, but I doubt there would be any grandfathering in of all old mechs, or some old mechs to players who have purchased so much here. I know I'd hate to rebuy my like 150 mechs, and mechbays... and certainly the same for others that have hundreds more.

I think the money that players spend on MWO today is probably just enough to keep the lights on around here and pay a few staff to keep it running and little or no more than that. Therefore, there's nothing to "reinvest." I'd hardly call it a cash grab. It's a niche game with a relatively small but dedicated player base. Not everyone spends a lot of money. I probably spend $20-40 a year on this game. That's no where near enough for a company to sustain a game even if there's a 1000 people spending that much each year. As a F2P title, the vast majority of players probably don't spend a dime.

Honestly, at this point, MWO has enough mechs for gameplay. But what primarily drove income all these years was the next new shiny mech pack. You don't even need to pay real money to get as far in this game these days because PGI is so generous with MC and premium time in events. I'm not sure what else players buy except hero mechs or mechs with c-bill bonuses and custom camo. And so many players have accumulated everything they could want or need at this point and there's not much else left to buy for them. More mechs, maybe, but there's so many mechs already, what would any new mech add to the game? I suppose a tech timeline advance is the only way forward.

At this point, I think MWO has mostly run it's course. It would be great to have a new MWO2, but I suspect MWO would have to be shut down for some number of years before demand would be built up enough to entice people to rebuy everything they had here. It would also have to be far more than quick play too. It would have to be substantially enough of a different game to justify its existence. I'm not sure if the Battletech franchise is growing or declining or what so maybe this IP isn't the best to stick with long-term for a game developer. They could always make their own IP, but this one is so successful because it's got so much lore already built for it. A new IP doesn't have that hook. The game itself would have to be a killer in the fun department or it would just go the way of a game like Hawken.

[TheCaptainJZ]

D O Z E R, on 08 October 2022 - 06:06 AM, said:

Great post. I have always thought that, from a business/market perspective, PGI doesn't realize how much of an asset MWO and the MWO community is. The base is resilient, and very loyal. Unlike other FPS games, Mechwarrior/Battletech play isn't easily copied or replicated, nor is the lore. And having a smallish but dedicated/loyal community as a base is something a lot of fps/online games dream of having.

They could invest significantly into MWO and not only reinvigorate the base community, but attract a ton of new players too. Something like an engine overhaul, MW5 integration etc. coupled with a big marketing splash.

Henry Ford said "If you think you can do it, you're right. If you think you can't do it, you're also right." If Devs/PGI see MWO as a fading game, it'll remain in current state. But if they envision a future where it becomes a cutting edge game again with mainstream numbers and appeal, that is also possible.

I fear that, from a business perspective, it makes no sense to dump money into this game. It's a huge risk that, realistically, would most likely fail to produce the kind of player numbers needed to justify it. It would be super cool to see it in Unreal, but that would be a massive undertaking. And yes, porting over everything you own to a new game begs the question--how does PGI get paid for doing that? In all of MWO's life, the population has never been super high. Granted, MWO was never marketed highly, but among Battletech fans, I think a good many of them heard about it by now and tried it out. The pent-up demand for MWO after MW4 no longer exists. F2P is tricky to be sustainable unless you keep adding new content to collect. And MWO was never "cutting edge." It was a great visual update, but the game play isn't revolutionary especially without any depth to the game. They had plans for depth, but never attained it. Once MWO was live, well, that zapped all their time and resources to keep it live and adding content for players to buy.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 08 October 2022 - 09:09 AM, said:

pgi's big problem was creating an arena shooter in an open world market. the game has a feature set of a tech demo from the early '00s with all the baggage of a modern f2p. and that was at release. even mw5 feels a bit dated.

I think that the PGI's big problem was the Russ Bullock's failure to develop the Faction Warfare game mode (i.e. some kind of persistent universe with elements of BattleTech lore) that solo casual players would be willing to play and spend their cash on it. Once solo casual players realized that their choices are essentially either ...

• be farmed by premades in Faction Warfare on three or four sucking maps (with the "spawn farming" as the best example of that behaviour)
  
• play the repetetive Quick Play on a half dozen of only less sucking maps

... they have started to leave the game.



Of course, Russ Bullock and PGI have made many many many other mistakes that contributed to the downfall of MechWarrior Online too.
(It would be too depressing to list them all. This is why I wrote in my post above that any future MWO2 developer should learn from the Russ Bullock's mistakes.)

[LordNothing]

martian, on 08 October 2022 - 11:59 PM, said:

I think that the PGI's big problem was the Russ Bullock's failure to develop the Faction Warfare game mode (i.e. some kind of persistent universe with elements of BattleTech lore) that solo casual players would be willing to play and spend their cash on it. Once solo casual players realized that their choices are essentially either ...

• be farmed by premades in Faction Warfare on three or four sucking maps (with the "spawn farming" as the best example of that behaviour)
  
• play the repetetive Quick Play on a half dozen of only less sucking maps

... they have started to leave the game.





Of course, Russ Bullock and PGI have made many many many other mistakes that contributed to the downfall of MechWarrior Online too.
(It would be too depressing to list them all. This is why I wrote in my post above that any future MWO2 developer should learn from the Russ Bullock's mistakes.)

\its initial design was too ambitious. the only way it was ever going to work as designed was with broad community acceptance. that actually materialized initially. there were a lot of units back then. everyone seemed to be on board, at least until the cracks started to appear. they were too slow to fix glaring issues, and when they did the fixes were equally mediocre. russ trying to micromanage may be the biggest issue with their dev team, probibly worse than not having your lead programmer stick around. mwo is a game held together by duct tape and bailing wire, and it shows.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 October 2022 - 12:19 PM.

[Necroconvict]

Sure seems like several here are waiting for it to fail. Not everyone, but a few. I'll still dream.

[LordNothing]

Necroconvict, on 10 October 2022 - 05:00 PM, said:

Sure seems like several here are waiting for it to fail. Not everyone, but a few. I'll still dream.

ive been waiting for it to not fail for nearly a decade, while supporting the game financially and watching them squander that funding. and il be waiting for it to not fail when the budget comes out in the red and the servers go down.

failure does open the door for another game, pvp in mw5, a resurgence of existing games (mwll/mektek) or a 3rd party free game (like living legends 2). especially for a free game (or an mw5 pvp mod), if it competes with an existing product, they might get served a c&d. ms was ok with mwll and mektek until pgi came along. so it stands to reason that a failure of this game might actually be a good thing. however it comes with the caveat that a successor may not immediately exist, or might not exist at all or that the community would be too burned out to rally around what may come.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 October 2022 - 11:29 AM.

[w0qj]

I'm personally waiting for Clan faction into MW5 in PvE environment...

And buy from GOG.com with DRM-free, as that version of MW5 will still install & play properly without internet.
So even when game server switches off many many years from now, you can still play MW5 on your computer!

[Necroconvict]

w0qj, on 11 October 2022 - 04:17 PM, said:

I'm personally waiting for Clan faction into MW5 in PvE environment...

And buy from GOG.com with DRM-free, as that version of MW5 will still install & play properly without internet.
So even when game server switches off many many years from now, you can still play MW5 on your computer!

Well I already own it, and didn't know that.

[w0qj]

Generally "all" GOG.com (I estimate) 90%+ of GOG.com games are DRM-free, which is the main selling point of GOG.com

And your game should install & play properly without internet.
So even when game server switches off many many years from now, you can still play your game on your computer!

As long as it does not say "internet connection required".

[All other game platform selling MW5: you will lose MW5 when MW5 game servers switch off one day, a loooonngg time from now...]

Necroconvict, on 11 October 2022 - 06:36 PM, said:

Well I already own it, and didn't know that.

Edited by w0qj, 11 October 2022 - 10:29 PM.

[Thorqemada]

There is GOG-Galaxy that runs the games Steamlike but you can somewhere keep the installation files afaik.

And GOG also offers files independent of that for offline installation!

Ofc Coop wouls probably not work without servers...the game itself works.

[Zeddicuus]

Go into your profile's Games list. You can click the down arrow on the game tile and go to "View Downloads". Just under the regular galaxy install option is the "Download offline installers".

[The Will of The Way]

Honestly, I'm really hoping they're working on MWO2. Single player and PVE (only) mechwarrior has never been my cup of tea, on the other hand, this game originally promised a much more robust "Massively Multi-player" aspect that it just never delivered. People wanted to be in a house or clan or mercenary company and have those choices actually make a difference, but all we got was weak-sauce random queues and disappointment.

As I understand it, there are technical reasons that many of the systems that were promised never really got implemented, or were implemented poorly. If that's the case, it makes sense that moving to MWO 2 could help solve many of the issues that this game has had. Battletech has a vast time-line with plenty of opportunites for expansion, but if the current programmers/developers are being prevented from giving a product that they're proud of because of the technology they're using (or their lack of understanding thereof), then we should be moving to technology that they're more comfortable with.