141 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 11 October 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

Have you seen what netflix and hbo are doing to long established stories? Race swapping just for the sake of race swapping even when that race swapping makes zero sense. That new rangs of power is the perfect example. I don't care that multiple races are used in a show but it has to at least make sense. Now the hobbits who were a tiny seclusive very homogenous race that didn't trust outsiders are now somehow every color in the rainbow because of muh diversity?

wokewood will probibly find something to gripe about. by the time they are done with their vivisection of the franchise and take creative liberties to comply with their messaging, virtue signaling and diversity quotas. it will be hardly recognizable.

[Meep Meep]

I think an animated series with actual good animation would be the best venue for it. Way more flexibility on pretty much everything and allows for a very long story arc with fleshed out characters and such. The Gundam series prove that.

[pattonesque]

Meep Meep, on 11 October 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

Have you seen what netflix and hbo are doing to long established stories? Race swapping just for the sake of race swapping even when that race swapping makes zero sense. That new rangs of power is the perfect example. I don't care that multiple races are used in a show but it has to at least make sense. Now the hobbits who were a tiny seclusive very homogenous race that didn't trust outsiders are now somehow every color in the rainbow because of muh diversity?

https://www.theonion...or-o-1849519086

[Meep Meep]

pattonesque, on 11 October 2022 - 05:10 PM, said:

https://www.theonion...or-o-1849519086

You missed my point. I don't care what color the actors are as long as the role they are portrayed in makes sense. I have enjoyed movies made by every race on the planet via the wonder of subs and dubs. Look up some bollywood action movies. I have never been so entertained in my life by the shear ingenuity and absurdness.



But I need an explanation how having a rainbow of racial colors for the hbo hobbits makes any literary continuity sense? The books were obviously based on European mythology and heroic epics and had nothing to do with and other regions races or cultures. Even Tolkien's third age world map was vaguely European shaped and based.

Elves in pretty much every single instance are portrayed as fair and golden haired with very little difference in appearance. So why the race swapping for this show? What would be the reasoning? What do ~you~ think the reasoning is? It would be like making a chinese epic movie about the ming dynasty but instead of chinese actors they substitute every other race on the planet? Exact same concept.

But anyhoo this is swerving a bit off topic unless we are talking about netflix or hbo actually picking up the battletech ip and mutilating it.

[confracto]

why not battletech movie?

because this IP peaked over 25 years ago, and the special/visual effects required to make it where way more expensive than it was worth at the time. because this IP is now fractured in 2, with a trading card company and microsoft each owning half, and why would hollywood want to wade into that? because they made a cartoon at the height of it's popularity, and couldn't even get a second season.

(I honestly suspect that the reason harmony gold finally let macross over was so they could get their robotech film into japan, where it'll tank anyway, also harmony gold sucks)

This IP has a doggedly loyal fanbase, but it's not large, and it's aging. It's also going to be hard to make anything that both appeals to the fans and also a wider audience, and be good enough to convince someone to hand over tens of millions of dollars at least in the hope that it would make a return on investment. This IP has some heavy 80's baggage.

I really hope someone does, I'd love to watch it, but with everything I've seen as fan (since '89) and game developer, I really don't see it happening.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Meep Meep, on 11 October 2022 - 05:35 PM, said:

But I need an explanation how having a rainbow of racial colors for the hbo hobbits makes any literary continuity sense? The books were obviously based on European mythology and heroic epics and had nothing to do with and other regions races or cultures. Even Tolkien's third age world map was vaguely European shaped and based.

Well hobbits were based off Tolkien’s expression of British country folk in the early 20th century. And wouldn’t you know it, there were dark skinned country folk in southern England then too.

But the real answer to your question is “representation”. We can discuss that in off topic forum if anyone cares to start a thread, but I’d point out that FASA, the original makers of the Battletech genre, were always top notch about representation and positive portrayals.

[Meep Meep]

ScrapIron Prime, on 11 October 2022 - 07:54 PM, said:

But the real answer to your question is “representation”.

Then make a fantasy story that naturally includes those that feel the need for representation? Why the push to retcon established works to fit into a niche ideology? I've watched plenty of fantasy and sci fi and every story type that has all sorts of races in them and greatly enjoyed them.

Again would it make sense for a germanic history film to feature chinese and other orientals as the characters? Or an african based story to feature only north and south american natives as the cast or at least in the leading roles? It's exactly the same concept. Well at least the market will speak as these types of woke endeavors almost always lose money and are generally unpopular. Profit always wins over ideology in the end.

As to the cast of a battletech movie or series that would naturally be open to having multiple races represented as most sci fi tend to do anyways.

Edited by Meep Meep, 11 October 2022 - 08:18 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

My theory is that Sam Jackson is largely to blame.
Before Sam Jackson was Nick Fury, audiences largely rejected movies that casted their roles for "diversity".
It was the charisma of Sam Jackson, and the goodwill people have for him, that opened the floodgates for more of that.

Also keep in mind that everything we are seeing now was written, cast, and produced during a year that cities burned in politically endorsed race riots- so there's a small delay between culture and media.

Box office results speak for themselves. The market will correct.



That said, Rings of Power is freakin good. And any youtuber who reviews every episode to only complain is a completely disingenuous grifter that only wants your clicks.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 11 October 2022 - 08:37 PM.

[Dekallis]

You need a list?
1. The franchise ain't big enough. If was going to happen it would've happened in the 90's when mechwarrior games were something people cared about. Also compare to DC or Marvel...well both of those things have been around since the age of radio. DC comics characters like batman are only in recent years getting serious movies despite being almost hundred year old characters(Yes really, the first batman appearance was in 1939, Superman wa sin 1938- that's more than 80 years ago) those characters have persisted long enough to be part of the public conciousness. Wheras I garuntee you most people do not know what battletech is or even mechwarrior for that matter and mechwarrior is the better known name. The also definitely won't know that mech commander was related to the franchise. It doesn't have brand recognition or a massive built in fanbase.

2.Scale, there aren't a lot of good smaller scale stories that fit neatly into a movie format for the franchise and you definitely don't want a studio making it's own story on this one. Succession wars are too big with too many factions there's not enough runtime to introduce them and their motivations and actually have characters we give a crap about AND still have battles or whatever. it'd end up like the dune movie that came out a while back, even though they understood the dune universe is too big to explain in one go the first movie which was really meant to be only the first part of a ongoing saga still had people lost as to what was going on and why it was happening only people really familiar with dune knew wtf was going on. Same deal here basically.

3. Realistically the ONLY story that would really work is the story of the Amaris civil war but even that would probably take at least 2 movies to tell the story of maybe 3 if you include the rise of the houses afterward and kerensky noping out of the sphere. But even that is a large commitment,doubt a studio would do that because at that point the commitment to tell the story 'right' would be so large that anything other than a major studio would close it's doors if it flopped. No one's going to take that risk on a franchise that practically no one under the age of 30 has even heard of.

[Meep Meep]

To be fair superhero movies have done nothing different than the comics themselves over the decades. There have been plenty of race and gender swaps before so Nick Fury not being a J. Jonah Jameson with an eye patch and guns lookalike was perfectly in form.

I also didn't say the rings of power was a bad show per say. Just that they are not following the continuity of the movies or books. Much like that star trek discovery show was very hit and miss on who liked or loathed it. I found it a tedious watch until the third season then it got really good. The new captain pike series is pretty good too but a bit campy for its own good. Star trek picard? Meh... However the expanse is excellent and also has a perfectly realistic mix of race and culture. So yes it can certainly be and is being done so this is why forcing it on established franchises seems a bit pushy and frankly a fair bit self centered.

Buuut anyhoo I think the best bet for this ip is to push it out to a japanese anime house that deals with sci fi epics. They have all the real experience in long form stuff like this anyways. With all the content of the extended universe novels and TT scenarios they could stretch it out for a dozen spin offs as they follow down each story path as the decades and centuries flow by.

[feeWAIVER]

Dekallis, on 11 October 2022 - 08:40 PM, said:

You need a list?
1. The franchise ain't big enough. If was going to happen it would've happened in the 90's when mechwarrior games were something people cared about. Also compare to DC or Marvel...well both of those things have been around since the age of radio. DC comics characters like batman are only in recent years getting serious movies despite being almost hundred year old characters(Yes really, the first batman appearance was in 1939, Superman wa sin 1938- that's more than 80 years ago) those characters have persisted long enough to be part of the public conciousness. Wheras I garuntee you most people do not know what battletech is or even mechwarrior for that matter and mechwarrior is the better known name. The also definitely won't know that mech commander was related to the franchise. It doesn't have brand recognition or a massive built in fanbase.

I don't believe that at all.
All it would take is licensing out the property to a big budget studio to massively grow interest in the franchise.
We're only now at a place where making a MechWarrior movie/series would be even possible, and Game of Thrones proves people are hungry for fantastical political dramas.

[jjm1]

I would like to see a BT movie.

But I'd want to keep the BT community at a reaaally long arms length during its writing so it's not ruined by our terrible, terrible ideas.

[Thorqemada]

ScrapIron Prime, on 11 October 2022 - 08:54 AM, said:

Honestly, I think "Robot Jox" is why they never made a Battletech movie. It flopped, it was BAD.

OMG, i have seen some of this movie, its a while ago and i think it was on YT but i may end up mistaken.

Gosh, that was a bad movie as bad as you can make one - some B or C Movies get their charme from being B or C movie quality but this one was simply trash for the trashbin.

I believe that a good Battletech/Mechwarrior Movie would have good combat scenes but needed to be more character based and drama/conspiracy based with the fights being the end or start of each storyarc that spans severall epsiodes and honestly - cinema is dead and will only be more dead each year passing, therefore no cinema movie.

It needed to be a characterdriven dystopian expanse in terms of technical credibility married with game of thrones and mech combat.

And probably Disharmony Scold would sue them anyway bcs they only promised not to interfere with computer games.

Edited by Thorqemada, 11 October 2022 - 10:36 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

There let us see some cornerstones from the posts happened here (by my european point of view)!

"Race-swaps" is a pestering stuff studios abusely use to **** their audience. I understand that acceptance and tolerance is important. But what they do is just make everyone furious and "**** I have now a reason to hate >insert any race here<, because f***ed up >insert whatever here<!". Or perhaps this is the exact reason? They secretely fuel racial hatred while try to play their role as charade? The pre-quel of LotR is a bleeding sh!t what no real director would ever dare to present... Just plain wrong right from the base! Why master Tolkien written countless pages of descriptions, briefings and stories if a sh!tloaded-br@!nfarted scum come and say: "Let's do it exactly the opposite!" In an other world, a better world such idiots were never dared to crawl out from the darkness they spawned like maggots...
I not hate other races. I quite like japanese dramas and movies, respect the ancient indian culture and know many good films with afro-americans. But when they forced into situations where they just not fit... Sorry, but that would be always a big NO!
Gender-swap is also belongs here. Did you know that spice Melange cause you to swap gender? Liet Kynes is the proof because HE (read the novel, he were a man) somehow became a SHE! Liet, Liet! Drink less spice-coffee next time...
The world of movies went crazy and ruin themselves while at the same time with their gender\race-swaps just create more people whom would hate. And - if their reason is not exactly fuel such hates - they not notice that very basic and plain fact what is more than sorrowfull!

Back to BattleTech now...

BattleTech may could work like Babylon 5 does or Firefly: Start with a pilot movie (either Amaris Civil War ending with the Exodus and took about 2 and a half hours or starts with Warrior: En Garde approximately) what then followed by shorter episodes bring on the story and the timeline while there everything ends with 1-2 sealing movies (Clan invasion! I want my Jade Falcons kicking filthy FedSun balls!). Movie- or series-wise BT is good from 3025-30XX (Either Jaguars fall or the great refusal) because the Davion-Steiner War or the Jihad is to widespread and Dark Age is simply bad.
CGI-wise the current MWO\HBS BattleTech mech looks could be good (+ already have the models reduce cost). Not to mention that some original mechs look, well, weird at best (ugly like hell!)...
BT copyrights? What the hell does MicrosVcks do with it? Did they done anything with that since MW4? I think they only owe it to sell for good price and feel themselves the king of trasheap like always... CGL use BT rights far better so they could be the real owners (legal stuffs in america is insane, often wonder how could they even work at all).

+ BattleTech could really represent race\gender acceptance because it have plenty from both! Just look at Lincoln Osis! Big, black guy who ruled the Clans. That surpasses even Obama.

[Knownswift]

I don't see how you can be mad about black hobbits.

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 11 October 2022 - 11:36 PM, said:

I don't see how you can be mad about black hobbits.

I don't see how you can be mad about asian vikings.

[Knownswift]

What makes you think I'm mad?

This franchise thinks long duck dong is good inclusion, and the whole conversation turned into crying about gender/race changes.

It's hilarious. I'm laughing.

Edited by Knownswift, 12 October 2022 - 12:10 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

if it hasn't already been stated i can give you one answer a little **** company called Harmony Gold (they hold the distribution rights for RoboTech in the US). they pop up every time a stompy robot things comes up and try try to sue them. they don't even produce anything, its why you will never see an english dubbed version of the later Robotech stuff. they are one of those companies that buy the rights to something and then just sit on them an make their money suing anyone who even tries to do something similar. hell as soon as HBS made their turn based came Battletch they tried to sue them. i think they did the same with MWO over certain mechs. thankfully they lost that case.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Meep Meep, on 11 October 2022 - 08:17 PM, said:

Why the push to retcon established works to fit into a niche ideology?

Duke Falcon, on 11 October 2022 - 11:00 PM, said:

I understand that acceptance and tolerance is important. But what they do is just make everyone furious

Well that's just it. Representation and diversity is not a "niche ideology". Its not making "everyone" furious, just a tiny vocal minority. Studios are making the calculation that portraying fictional characters with darker skin might be costing them 2% of their viewership, but in the process they are expanding their market by 25 to 30 percent. (Nor did I pull those numbers out of thin air, they're based on Nielsen ratings for multiple shows.) This is a net windfall for them and therefore it will keep happening.

But again, a great topic for "Off Topic".

[feeWAIVER]

ScrapIron Prime, on 12 October 2022 - 04:55 AM, said:

Well that's just it. Representation and diversity is not a &quot;niche ideology&quot;. Its not making &quot;everyone&quot; furious, just a tiny vocal minority. Studios are making the calculation that portraying fictional characters with darker skin might be costing them 2% of their viewership, but in the process they are expanding their market by 25 to 30 percent. (Nor did I pull those numbers out of thin air, they're based on Nielsen ratings for multiple shows.) This is a net windfall for them and therefore it will keep happening.

But again, a great topic for &quot;Off Topic&quot;.

Not really, the MCU has been ousted from the Chinese market, and that plays a lot into it.
They are still trying to grow their demographics.
The big diversity push came with phase 4, and their viewership is down as a result.
I expect course correction in phase 5. Blade, for example, has been delayed a year- they are starting completely over with new scripts and director.