141 replies to this topic

[Knownswift]

Meep Meep, on 13 October 2022 - 10:29 AM, said:

I think you are confusing some badly drawn artwork(which is a hallmark of battletech btw) with a conscious effort to make an offensive racial caricature.

Oh yeah yeah. Must be why they can't show all of those looney tunes shorts featuring japanese characters.

LordNothing, on 13 October 2022 - 10:44 AM, said:

lol. there was never going to be a big battle with aliens in this show

I don't need a big alien battle. I don't even need them to meet any other aliens. The intrigue was captivating enough.

Edited by Knownswift, 13 October 2022 - 11:23 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

What is this Expanse you talking about? I doubt I ever met it in my country...

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 11:20 AM, said:

Oh yeah yeah. Must be why they can't show all of those looney tunes shorts featuring japanese characters.

Oh? You think looney tunes caricatures of its characters was racist due to the inherent racist mindset of the animators? If so then why do the only white guys in the entire franchise look like this?




Golly not too flattering right? Kinda like the entire point of a goofy cartoon is to use absurd caricatures of people and cultures to make a funny?


As to why its not shown anymore is because mainly emotionally fragile white western liberal females need something to feel virtuous about and in this cancel culture they screamed and threw fits to get it done so they could pat themselves on the back and call themselves the 'Good People'.

There is a great video showing alex stein dressing up in a poncho and sombrero and asking liberals if this was racist and they all to a person said yes many of whom got really bent out of shape to the point they were literally screaming at him with some even attempting to rip them off his body.

Then he went to an area with a lot of hispanics and asked the same question. The answers? They loved it and though it was a cool outfit or just shrugged. Not a single ruffled feather out of the bunch.

This cancel culture thing has about run its course though and is finally getting the pushback its needed to reign it in.

Thank God..

[pbiggz]

Duke Falcon, on 13 October 2022 - 11:35 AM, said:

What is this Expanse you talking about? I doubt I ever met it in my country...

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/0316129089

[Knownswift]

Meep Meep, on 13 October 2022 - 11:45 AM, said:

Wow. Thats your ammo? Non-offensive depictions of white people drawn by white people?

I'm surprised you didn't opt for foghorn leghorn and the dog.

Edited by Knownswift, 13 October 2022 - 11:58 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

pbiggz, on 13 October 2022 - 11:54 AM, said:

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/0316129089

Oooooh! I know this! So good book! So Expanse is it's adaptation... Sure would search and watch that! Thanks!

[Knownswift]

Duke Falcon, on 13 October 2022 - 11:59 AM, said:

Oooooh! I know this! So good book! So Expanse is it's adaptation... Sure would search and watch that! Thanks!

It's an amazon prime show, if that helps.

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 11:57 AM, said:

Wow. Thats your ammo? Non-offensive depictions of white people drawn by white people?

I'm surprised you didn't opt for foghorn leghorn and the dog.

Really? Those are pictures of fit blue eyed blond haired nordic chads? Because I see two ugly little gnomes that no female would ever consider dating unless they were super rich or something.

As to foghorn leghorn and the dog what do they have to do with anything? No one so far has called any of the animal caricatures racist as far as I know?

Is this racist too?



Or this?



Or this?



Or this?



Or this?

[Knownswift]

lol This is really cringe.

Meep Meep, on 13 October 2022 - 12:15 PM, said:

Really?

Yes, really. This is the worst red herring I've ever seen on these forums.

Do black elves offend you?

You could have picked Super Mario. But you're dying on yosemite sam hill; A humorous depiction of a southern/western outlaw, drawn by people of the same culture.

Edited by Knownswift, 13 October 2022 - 12:23 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 12:20 PM, said:

lol This is really cringe.


Yes, really. This is the worst red herring I've ever seen on these forums.

Do black elves offend you?

You could have picked Super Mario. But you're dying on yosemite sam hill; A humorous depiction of a southern/western outlaw, drawn by people of the same culture.

Black elves don't offend me because there ~are~ no elves. They are an ancient european mythological race of fair skinned blond haired slim immortal magical beings. There were no black or brown or yellow or pink with purple polka dots elves. Inserting them into the rings of power broke all literary and movie continuity for the sake of Muh Diversity and Representation. I know. Lets recast Friday with hispanic people race swapped for the blacks and see how far that flies. What? Are you saying there are no hispanic gangstahs or inner city weed dealers or crack heads? Seems a bit bigoted yes?

[Knownswift]

Black elves don't offend me, but let me tell you about how they do.

[Horseman]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 12:20 PM, said:

Do black elves offend you?

What seems to trigger people isn't that there are black elves, it's the lack of internal consistency brought on by a lack of in-universe justification.
Tolkien's elves were a single ethnicity. You could easily "fix" that and expand the setting by diversifying Elves as a whole with distinct different ethnic groups (there are settings like D&D that do just that!), but the show doesn't bother: you just have a random black elf out of the blue, making him basically a walking plot hole.

Quote

You could have picked Super Mario. But you're dying on yosemite sam hill; A humorous depiction of a southern/western outlaw, drawn by people of the same culture.

He's highlighting a problem: dual standards. To you he's humorous. To someone else he's going to come off as offensive. Then you have characters like Speedy Gonzales, who was also intended to be a humorous depiction, has been criticized as a racist caricature... and the people who should be offended the most often adore him as a representation of their culture.
Either everyone should be offended or nobody should, take your pick.

[Knownswift]

Speedy Gonzales, you mean the hero?

Vaulting speedy because it might have been offensive was a good call, even better was un-vaulting speedy because he's generally known as a hero and a positive depiction in those cultures was even better.

Thankyou for actually making a salient point, I've been waiting like 3 pages.

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 12:51 PM, said:

Black elves don't offend me, but let me tell you about how they do.

Umm you know I would feel the same way regardless of the race swap involved. It has zero to do with the person or color or culture and everything to do with continuity. I'd pass on a mythological fantasy chinese ming dynasty era historic epic with swords and wizards and beasts that swapped races and genders not because I'm a racist/misogynist and against muh diversity or representation. I'd give it a pass because it wouldn't make any sense. Same with rings of power. I'm sure those black actors are all top notch human beings and excellent entertainers. But that doesn't mean they fit the role of an elf or make any sense casting them as such.

[Knownswift]

So, black elves don't offend you but here are the reasons they do. Again.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Horseman, on 13 October 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

Tolkien's elves were a single ethnicity. You could easily "fix" that and expand the setting by diversifying Elves as a whole with distinct different ethnic groups (there are settings like D&D that do just that!), but the show doesn't bother: you just have a random black elf out of the blue, making him basically a walking plot hole.

I don't need a plot line to understand why a character has dark skin. I assume he got it from one or both of his parents and that such skin tones therefore must exist, even as a retcon. Pretty simple.

[Knownswift]

I guess what has be stuck on that is.. Why does skin color require serious exposition.

It isn't a historical piece.

Fun side note; been watching the new Interview with The Vampire.

Black Louie is best Louie.

Edited by Knownswift, 13 October 2022 - 01:36 PM.

[LordNothing]

the only problem i have with black elves is if the acting isnt any good. i didnt mind black vulcans or space lesbians in star trek back when it was still watchable. also it seems like the animated shows have better references. the kiddie show gets jelico while the adult show gets mudd. wtf? and lower decks has the only decent homage to ds9. what they did to picard was attrocious. next season is 'lets see how much more we butcher tng, that will teach those right wing trump supporters'. i reserve the right to call out crap when i see it.

on the star wars front, andor grows the show up a bit, though still waiting for something to happen, its like all the action was used in the teaser trailers. the mandalorian is good for sticking to the western format with something cute for the kids. rogue one was the only movie that was any good since rots.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 October 2022 - 01:45 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 01:14 PM, said:

So, black elves don't offend you but here are the reasons they do. Again.

Top be frank you are the only one here who seems to be offended. Why is that?

[Horseman]

Knownswift, on 13 October 2022 - 01:35 PM, said:

I guess what has be stuck on that is.. Why does skin color require serious exposition.
It isn't a historical piece.

Because the show doesn't exist in a vacuum - it's playing in someone else's sandbox. In that situation, making a change that either a ) is an inconsistency or b ) has substantial implications to established lore simply isn't something you do without going out of your way to ensure you have a way to get your audience to buy in on the change.

Of course, the showrunners also messed up by deciding they have to focus on "recognizable" parts of the Middle-Earth's history and then to paint in "representation" by numbers (quotes because I consider such poor handling of it to be a crude and blatantly obvious attempt at pandering rather than true representation of any given ethnicity or culture) instead of setting it in a location and context where it would have been a natural and logical consequence, especially when there's a few cultures and nations that the source material leaves largely unexplored and where the showrunners would have almost complete freedom to do whatever because there's not much pre-existing lore to compete with.

But we're getting sidetracked. Battletech show and dated cultural portrayals? There's several ways to examine these tropes, subvert them, deconstruct them or even reconstruct them. Tradition in clinging to a mythologized depiction of a past culture is kinda an in-universe hat already (specifically for the Kuritans). The real smart move would be having a leader who is not just aware of certain tropes but actively exploits them for their own gain, such as deliberately cultivating a ridiculous facade because it dupes their opponents into dismissing them as a credible threat.

Edited by Horseman, 13 October 2022 - 10:03 PM.