236 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

+1000000000000000
Exactly my comments also: QP Drop Deck kills mech variety, with implications to QP gameplay.
(Great minds think alike!)

ScrapIron Prime, on 03 December 2022 - 07:01 AM, said:

Well the quick play match maker already throws out tonnage, so having the ability to choose 1 of 4 mechs after you see the map and mode wouldn’t break things any further than they’re broken now.

What WOULD suck is build design. Picking your mech after seeing the map means that there would be less variety on the field. Solaris City? Look, my team has 11 mechs with AC/20’s! And there would be no downside for specialists, as you’d rarely be caught outside the perfect location for your build. This would kill off what generalist designs remain.

Edited by w0qj, 03 December 2022 - 07:29 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Lockheed_, on 02 December 2022 - 04:20 PM, said:

God no!
That would be a reason for me to immediately quit the game.
I like matches being relatively short and one life death match style.

it would work if you still have one life but you get to choose one of say 2 mechs....

[VeeOt Dragon]

i say hell no to drop decks in QP. i honestly like things how they are. mind you i do like EQ and think they should have something going there every weekend. (hell having new and varied scenarios every weekend might even get some folks that have stopped playing regularly (like myself) to come back and play more often even without the rewards of the normal QP events, just that little boost in C-bills and GXP would make it worth coming on for a few matches every weekend)

the main reason has already been stated in that stomps would become even worse with it devolving into nothing more than one team spawn camping the other. i like the the one mech and done because if i am in a bad match its over relatively quickly and i can try for another roll of the MM dice for something better. hell the MM has enough trouble balancing group in QP let alone trying to Balance drop decks. also Drop Decks add a whole new layer of complexity to the game. new players have enough on their plates learning the basics we don't need to make the learning curve any steeper (thats another thing about the game that could use work, the "New Player Experience"). also don't get me started on the meta try hard toxicity that would only increase if you put Drop Decks in QP (i lost count how many *** hat elitists would spout out about "you should only every bring these mechs with these builds to a mach" ******** back when i did play FP. there is a reason i haven't touched it in years, well that and the long wait times.

Drop decks should stay in FP as a way to keep that game mode unique. QP is just that "QUICK" play, matches that don't last to long and you can just drop out after you die if you get unlucky and die early then just go on to the next one. QP also lets you have fun with new builds and such without insane wait times to get that mech back in a battle if it turns out it didn't work out to well.

i think the current 3 game modes are fine but we do need EQ more often.

as for the dropping population, that has been an issue for a long time. what MWO really needs is some advertising. hell when i talk about the game on my Discord channels 9 times out of 10 no one even knows what the game is or that it even exists. hell i'm sure there are ways they can get it out there more. we need new blood now more than ever.

(EQ is fun not because of the drop decks but because of all the shenanigans that can be introduced. things like all one weight class or all one Mech type (Urdie Derbies are a blast). even the infinite JJ was interesting and added a whole new dynamic to the matches.)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 03 December 2022 - 09:07 AM.

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 02 December 2022 - 05:05 PM, said:

Can't imagine its any different, but most solo people really hated being rolled over 48-3 in faction play. Don't really seen any way they'd appreciate having it happen to them in the mode that doesn't have that as an option.

Coordinated 12 man with hand picked mechs for that specific map vs solos is not really same thing than max 4 man group? with mechs that might not work that well in that random map.

[sycocys]

Curccu, on 03 December 2022 - 09:45 AM, said:

Coordinated 12 man with hand picked mechs for that specific map vs solos is not really same thing than max 4 man group? with mechs that might not work that well in that random map.

Coordinated 4 mans would also absolutely wreck FP vs solos and more casual groups.

Generally, at least from the drops I've seen since returning, a 4 man in random mechs will turn most matches vs solos into a roll unless they make a pretty bad error in position or some guys get some really good shots on early to put them in passive mode.

[Ilostmycactus]

Maybe if FP was turned into a lobby system it would be easier to get matches. It's a huge bummer to wait in queue forever and then get passed over because a premade joined last minute.
I don't have a solution for potential abuses of it though.

Tbh I would prefer if the rewards for FP were earnable in QP as well. Just make it 1/4 progress or something. Not to mention all the bolt-ons from Solaris.

I think the only way to mitigate deathballing in a drop deck QP scenario would be to drastically increase the lethality. (Not that this is much of a practical solution). The premade would still probably dominate but at least you could have a chance to fight back before their tonnage bullied you. Especially if there was spawn protection like in War Thunder.

[Pixel Hunter]

you should be able to select weight classes for every mech weight group, and have a drop deck. so you play at 65 tons (for example) so here's 5rt mechs you can take

Edited by Pixel Hunter, 03 December 2022 - 07:23 PM.

[mytilus edulis]

in my experience, EQ stomps weren't really that bad. Most of the time it just felt like way back in the beginning of internet gaming where you'd drop into a random server. Maybe your team wasn't winning but you still had a lot of time to participate, maneuver, and get kills. I only remember a handful of times when we got spawn camped so badly that it felt like an FP stomp and I've played every single EQ they've put up for like 10 hours each day. The nascar in EQ is also nonexistent, which is nice.

[Weeny Machine]

feeWAIVER, on 02 December 2022 - 03:35 PM, said:

A few months ago they were talking about rebranding the game...

So just add drop decks to Quickplay.
Suddenly, matches will be determined by the objective.
Suddenly, Skirmish will be a meaningful choice.
Suddenly, games won't snowball so hard.
Suddenly, making one mistake won't remove you from the match.
Suddenly, the entire meta has changed.
Suddenly, players will be discussing what they bring in their decks.
Suddenly, the old excuse "wrong mech for the map" will become void.

We already have proof of concept from Event Queue.
This will breath new life into the game.
Just do it.

...and and we could add bases regardless of mode and...oh yes and re-name it and call it....Faction Play!

[Dr Wubs]

Create a new mode called Quickplay Extended.

You get a drop deck with enough tonnage to theoretically have 1 mech of each weight class.

Stomps are so common now that I don't care about winning. I care about my own performance.

Would I enjoy being pushed to play mechs of different weight classes? Yes.

Would I rather spend more time fighting than watching people vote for the same 4 or so maps in our illusion of choice waste of time? Yes.

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 03 December 2022 - 05:38 PM, said:

Coordinated 4 mans would also absolutely wreck FP vs solos and more casual groups.

Generally, at least from the drops I've seen since returning, a 4 man in random mechs will turn most matches vs solos into a roll unless they make a pretty bad error in position or some guys get some really good shots on early to put them in passive mode.

Now you are assuming that all group players are super highend T1s and solos are T5s, I have been on solo side in FP multiple times and totally wrecked premade with few other skilled solos and other not that awesome but still that followed lead decently.

[-K H A N]

LordNothing, on 02 December 2022 - 06:58 PM, said:

fp is a failure, just compare its population to qp.

besides qp is in dire need of a redux. thats the bigger issue. axed features need somewhere else to go. and making changes to the existing fp isnt something the few people who still play it want.

No changes need to be made to FP for QP players to jump over and experience multi drop decks.

feeWAIVER, on 02 December 2022 - 07:02 PM, said:

This is a lazy arguement.
Faction Play is about 12mans farming Pugs. That's why it died.
Not because of drop decks.

Its not at all lazy,not sure how you can think that.Its not 12 mans farming pugs. As a pug I have had plenty of pug vs pug,small group + pugs vs small groups + pugs and bigger groups.SOMETIMES its a 12 man vs pug team but so what? Scared of your KD Ratio dying,scared of a challenge? The only lazy thing is not trying. Not sure how it used to be so you maybe right thats how it was but its not now. The only 12 man Ive seen often is GNX and they are good guys/gals to fight against.Learnt alot about the game fighting them.

Edited by -K H A N, 04 December 2022 - 03:27 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

feeWAIVER, on 02 December 2022 - 07:02 PM, said:

This is a lazy arguement.
Faction Play is about 12mans farming Pugs. That's why it died.
Not because of drop decks.

True. Now the problem is that there are premades in QP farming pugs (and yeah, there are also bad premades now and then).

There should be an option where are solo could tick "Don't want to play with groups" and the valve should only open when there are not enough premades and or a filler is needed

[PocketYoda]

I wish, i really really wish we had drop decks for quickplay..

What i'd like is to have 4 choices of mechs even if i cannot use them all. Not knowing the map or game type before hand is incredibly limiting, and having a 4 mech drop deck with 4 different mechs would be a god send.

[sycocys]

Curccu, on 04 December 2022 - 03:05 AM, said:

Now you are assuming that all group players are super highend T1s and solos are T5s, I have been on solo side in FP multiple times and totally wrecked premade with few other skilled solos and other not that awesome but still that followed lead decently.

It truly doesn't matter if its T1s or T5s grouped up or dropped against if the group are competent enough to all shoot center mass on the same mech then switch to the next target.

[Knownswift]

feeWAIVER, on 02 December 2022 - 03:35 PM, said:

A few months ago they were talking about rebranding the game...

Have you played faction or with drop decks at all? Ignoring the objective to prolong the stomp for higher rewards is the norm.

[feeWAIVER]

sycocys, on 03 December 2022 - 05:38 PM, said:

Coordinated 4 mans would also absolutely wreck FP vs solos and more casual groups.

Generally, at least from the drops I've seen since returning, a 4 man in random mechs will turn most matches vs solos into a roll unless they make a pretty bad error in position or some guys get some really good shots on early to put them in passive mode.

Look, we already have proof of concept from Event Queue.
I'm sure PGI has the stats, they can confirm it for themselves.

Event Queue used 2 man groups, but I would posit that a 4 man group is not going stomp as hard in a 48 mech game as they do a 12 mech game. They are going to get worn down in a Skirmish, and Domination and Conquest ticks too fast to kill all the mechs.

We were playing Domination one weekend a couple months ago, the Objective was always won with everyone on their first or second mech. The timer was too short and the map was too big to avoid it.
At first it annoyed me that the circle was always won so quickly, but then I realized it actually makes the game better for everyone, because the games are always short and nobody ever gets knocked out completely.

Conquest has always been best with Drop Decks, obviously. I don't even need to explain.

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 04 December 2022 - 07:51 AM, said:

It truly doesn't matter if its T1s or T5s grouped up or dropped against if the group are competent enough to all shoot center mass on the same mech then switch to the next target.

Well that was my point most of the players in this game are not competent enough to do that.

[sycocys]

Curccu, on 04 December 2022 - 09:59 AM, said:

Well that was my point most of the players in this game are not competent enough to do that.

It also makes the point that if you let the ones (groups) that are competent access to select 4 meta builds for a map its going to add further to the imbalance that tends to create. They will do more than well in random map vs whatever mech they happened to have.

If your goal is to make the objective/modes take effect over the default to death match - the modes, rewards, and drop points need to be reworked because they've always been sub-par for the task. Throwing more drops or selection even doesn't make poorly designed modes better.

[LordNothing]

-K H A N, on 04 December 2022 - 03:26 AM, said:

No changes need to be made to FP for QP players to jump over and experience multi drop decks.

Its not at all lazy,not sure how you can think that.Its not 12 mans farming pugs. As a pug I have had plenty of pug vs pug,small group + pugs vs small groups + pugs and bigger groups.SOMETIMES its a 12 man vs pug team but so what? Scared of your KD Ratio dying,scared of a challenge? The only lazy thing is not trying. Not sure how it used to be so you maybe right thats how it was but its not now. The only 12 man Ive seen often is GNX and they are good guys/gals to fight against.Learnt alot about the game fighting them.

my problem isnt the pug farming, its the fact that pug farming has made 90% of the people who would play fp leave, and results in wait times and dead zones too absurd to bother with. to the point where fp siege should become a comp mode, and the rest should become a replacement for the ever stale and not as quick as advertised qp, or just nuked entiely for a more limited eq default.