236 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

Ignatius Audene, on 19 April 2023 - 11:35 PM, said:

Sure, but if u will never burn through all your mechs anyway (no way I loose more than 3 maschines in 15 mins including walk time) u effectively get the blue light saber duells on a lot of maps, that are extremely rough for newer players without specialized, TC, range quirked mech with full skill tree range. My standard drop deck in this environment would be something around 2 erll mech (stalker, whm...), One midrange and maybe one brawler. And once the meta settles QP horde will spam forums even harder how bad sniping has become.

Games where this kind of respawn system works normally have faaaaaaar bigger maps with eco system etc. (He'll let loose). Or random close spawns like xdefiant now. Adjusting this and the code for Mwo might be a bigger thing than we think (in mwo engine everything not XML is hard to adjust)

I'm sure a lot of people will bring assaults and blue lasers first wave.
I'm sure a lot of people will bring a brawlers and LBXs for late game clean up.

My drop deck would be two locust 1V, and two Locust 3Ms.
I will spend the match harassing your blue lazor mechs. Maybe you should bring streaks.

[pbiggz]

Ignatius Audene, on 19 April 2023 - 11:35 PM, said:

Sure, but if u will never burn through all your mechs anyway (no way I loose more than 3 maschines in 15 mins including walk time) u effectively get the blue light saber duells on a lot of maps, that are extremely rough for newer players without specialized, TC, range quirked mech with full skill tree range. My standard drop deck in this environment would be something around 2 erll mech (stalker, whm...), One midrange and maybe one brawler. And once the meta settles QP horde will spam forums even harder how bad sniping has become.

You kind of already admit that this already happens. Why would drop decks impact it?

Ignatius Audene, on 19 April 2023 - 11:35 PM, said:

Games where this kind of respawn system works normally have faaaaaaar bigger maps with eco system etc.

This is not a rule.

Ignatius Audene, on 19 April 2023 - 11:35 PM, said:

(He'll let loose). Or random close spawns like xdefiant now. Adjusting this and the code for Mwo might be a bigger thing than we think (in mwo engine everything not XML is hard to adjust)

This is conjecture.

[ocular tb]

I was always against respawns or drop decks but at this point I'm willing to try it.

[An6ryMan69]

Zader39, on 17 April 2023 - 06:46 PM, said:

Yup, I think this is exactly the best way to do it. Select from a dropdeck after the map is chosen, but just get that one mech for the match for quickplay. Makes a lot of mechs actually viable again. Just do it!!!!

This.

Not a fan of four mech decks that all have to be used, generally.

Matches are too long, and the losing side often ends up having their last few mechs literally dropped into massed enemies that rip them up immediately, which is completely idiotic.

Now, if somebody changed the game to have variable drop zones, to guarantee drops in the currently safest area of the map at the time of the drop, or even better - user selectable drop zones, we'd maybe have something to talk about....

Edited by An6ryMan69, 24 April 2023 - 08:09 AM.

[pbiggz]

An6ryMan69, on 24 April 2023 - 08:06 AM, said:

This.

Not a fan of four mech decks that all have to be used, generally.

Why? To date nobody has given a good reason except that its different.

An6ryMan69, on 24 April 2023 - 08:06 AM, said:

Matches are too long, and the losing side often ends up having their last few mechs literally dropped into massed enemies that rip them up immediately, which is completely idiotic.

Faction play had different gamemodes with different objectives and a longer match timer. For the millionth time, nobody is asking for faction play gamemodes/maps with this. What's being discussed is 4 mech dropdecks/respawns in the existing quickplay matches, which are time limited, fought on smaller, non-linear maps, and able to be ended quickly simply by playing an objective (something possible now, but not fun and not rewarding because it ends games so quickly its considered griefing).

An6ryMan69, on 24 April 2023 - 08:06 AM, said:

Now, if somebody changed the game to have variable drop zones, to guarantee drops in the currently safest area of the map at the time of the drop, or even better - user selectable drop zones, we'd maybe have something to talk about....

This is a legitimate concern and I don't really know the technical specifics of what they'd have to do to make this work. I think it'll work alright without it, but it would be much better with it.

[VeeOt Dragon]

plenty of people have given many good reason why not to have Drop decks in QP, certain people just don't want to listen to them.

you want Drop Decks go play FP. oh wait the toxic comp groups destroyed that with their seal clubbing and other ****. seriously rarely ever dropped once where the other team wasn't a 12 man premade.

also drop decks would make the new play experience even worse than it already is. do you really want to chase off the few new players we get that are the ones keeping this game alive. PGI needs to concentrate on the New players both in keeping them and bring more to the game.

[feeWAIVER]

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 April 2023 - 10:04 AM, said:

also drop decks would make the new play experience even worse than it already is. do you really want to chase off the few new players we get that are the ones keeping this game alive. PGI needs to concentrate on the New players both in keeping them and bring more to the game.

I tried to get both my sons, age 16 and 19, to play.
Having one life and being out for the match is why they both gave me a hard pass.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 24 April 2023 - 03:04 PM.

[The Ed Is Not Amused]

My thoughts as a lapsed player who has been getting back into the game.

In general I agree with the sentiment that making all QP matches have full decks is a bad idea. 4-mech-per-player matches ain't quick. However, I also agree with the sentiment that making full drop deck play more accessible is a thing that needs to happen: event queue has proved how fun that can be and until something can be done to make faction play less of a pain to get into perhaps some other mode should be made available on a more permanent basis.

The permanent "event queue" would simply be something like 8v8, rotating map/gamemode, 285 Tons, no extra restrictions/bonuses/etc. They can either make it separate from the current event queue, or simply turn event queue into this when there are no active events. This will be for players that want a longer match, but since faction play is still difficult to get into (to say the least) this would be a happy medium. We can reassess this depending on what is done about Faction play to make it not nearly dead.

As for quickplay, I like the idea of allowing decks for mech selection after the map/mission is known but only allowing one drop. Every player would have 4 quickplay decks with no total tonnage restriction but instead restricted to light/medium/heavy/assault. Thus, for matchmaking purposes players would still have to commit to the weight class while queueing, but would then be able to select a build that is best suited to the map and gamemode that gets voted in. It will also give players the opportunity to at least do some coordination in their actual drop selection, so even if you're queueing solo its not super random if you happen to land with a team whose builds complement yours. This might help address some of the long/short range and laservomit meta concerns, since allowing some foreknowledge will make taking a more specialized build less risky as you'll know ahead of time if you're going into a situation where it'll be suboptimal (e.g. LRM boat on Solaris city, small laser vomit on Arctic/HPG, slow mechs on Conquest, etc). IMO this would result in a healthier meta where things like laservomit won't be so common since it's a "safe" pick to not be useless on a given map/mission.

Finally, double (at least) the number of trial mechs, with community curated builds that actually make sense instead of just the stock champion variants. This would be for the benefit of newer and lapsed players who might not have enough mechs to fill out full decks, and thus provide a sufficient variety of mechs and builds in all weight classes to do quickplay as described above. Curated trial builds would also perhaps give even veterans a reason to take a trial mech on a lark if they want to try something new on a chassis they may have overlooked or not considered taking, and be a valuable training tool for new/returning players to help clue them in to what works and what doesn't.

[KursedVixen]

how about we create a new mode that is quick play with drop decks call it long play...

[pbiggz]

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 April 2023 - 10:04 AM, said:

plenty of people have given many good reason why not to have Drop decks in QP, certain people just don't want to listen to them.

Not a single argument has been remotely convincing. I don't have to listen to you automatically, you have to actually convince me.

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 April 2023 - 10:04 AM, said:

you want Drop Decks go play FP. oh wait the toxic comp groups destroyed that with their seal clubbing and other ****. seriously rarely ever dropped once where the other team wasn't a 12 man premade.

iF yOu wANt drOp dEcKs jUsT gO pLaY FacTION plAY


yawn.

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 April 2023 - 10:04 AM, said:

also drop decks would make the new play experience even worse than it already is. do you really want to chase off the few new players we get that are the ones keeping this game alive. PGI needs to concentrate on the New players both in keeping them and bring more to the game.

Yeah no it doesn't. You made that up.

[Joanna Conners]

KursedVixen, on 24 April 2023 - 02:25 PM, said:

how about we create a new mode that is quick play with drop decks call it long play...

This.

[CherokeeRose187]

I vote no drop decks in QP, but keep doing occasional events with Drop decks.

This weekend's event was too much fun to be legal...

[pbiggz]

CherokeeRose187, on 25 April 2023 - 03:19 PM, said:

I vote no drop decks in QP, but keep doing occasional events with Drop decks.

This weekend's event was too much fun to be legal...

why?

other than being scared of change what reason do you give for not wanting them? Because all i've really seen is a bunch of people making excuses for being nervous about a change.

[Duke Falcon]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2023 - 10:34 AM, said:

why?

other than being scared of change what reason do you give for not wanting them? Because all i've really seen is a bunch of people making excuses for being nervous about a change.

1.: Drop decks of how? Tonnage limit? Class-limit? What kind of decks are we may talking about? Because with 255t limit (that much a clan drop deck's limit in FP) easily let you bring four heavies. MM how would consider such a deck? MM already fails to balance classes mostly because some people tend to ride on weight class exclusively.

2.: Drop decks for groups? Groups already have a tonnage limit depends on the number of members drop together. How may drop decks affect that? And how would such groups - when dropping in a match - affect the match-quality? Again lots of topics grow crying about "ban groups ohforfsake!"...

3.: What about those whom play QP because that is a one-mech, swift game? If one wants such a match need to use private lobbies or what? Many said they play QP because QP not force you to use waves of mechs. They would be banned from even QP? As one said a new mode would be perhaps better (not count inability to make such a new mode because lack of coder\programmer\techno-shaman)...

4.: Drop decks from what? Beginners rarely have four mechs already (+ see point 1-2 corresponding to this one)... They should use trial mechs? Trial mechs sux in most times because some needs skilled players... Or shall PGI introduce pre-made, temporal\trial drop decks for cadets\beginners?

5.: Shall we able to eat our sandwiches waiting for drop with the next mech like in FP? Or insta-drop? Or whatever? Shall QP dropzones also have walls like FP dropzones? DZ camping for farming would be enabled? Or finally they introduce the **** Union dropship to protect the dropzones? Seriously, brainbugs are responsible for the Leopard dropships the game currently use or someone consumed more shrooms that he\she should have been?

6.: Oh, you see nothing yet! Just wait how should these forums look like after we got QP dropdecks!
Tons of farmin', baby! Literally bitchin' time! Just as Tzeench planned...




Waaaait?!
Did I written something what not fully trolling?!
Shame on me! Shame on me!

[pbiggz]

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

1.: Drop decks of how? Tonnage limit? Class-limit? What kind of decks are we may talking about? Because with 255t limit (that much a clan drop deck's limit in FP) easily let you bring four heavies. MM how would consider such a deck? MM already fails to balance classes mostly because some people tend to ride on weight class exclusively.

You're assuming a dropdeck weight that will let you arbitrarily criticize, and then dismiss it. The dropdeck weight can be whatever PGI wants it to be. It also essentially eliminates weight-based matchmaking because everyone brings the same tonnage. Next.

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

2.: Drop decks for groups? Groups already have a tonnage limit depends on the number of members drop together. How may drop decks affect that? And how would such groups - when dropping in a match - affect the match-quality? Again lots of topics grow crying about "ban groups ohforfsake!"...

Groups have no impact on this. For the same reason as above; weight-based matchmaking goes away when everyone just gets to bring the same tonnage. Next.

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

3.: What about those whom play QP because that is a one-mech, swift game? If one wants such a match need to use private lobbies or what? Many said they play QP because QP not force you to use waves of mechs. They would be banned from even QP? As one said a new mode would be perhaps better (not count inability to make such a new mode because lack of coder\programmer\techno-shaman)...

Nobody actually plays quickplay because its short. They play it in spite of it being short.

The gameplay loop for this game is dogshit. You spend 5+ minutes in queue just to maybe, best case scenario, get 10 minutes of gameplay, if you win or die last. More than likely you'll get a minute of gameplay, followed by 5-10 minutes of spectating, then you get to do it again. You're spending maybe a quarter of the time in MWO actually playing.

Drop deck solve this, and yes, even with drop decks, quickplay matches can be, and are, quick. The event queue was proof of this.

Next.

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

4.: Drop decks from what? Beginners rarely have four mechs already (+ see point 1-2 corresponding to this one)... They should use trial mechs? Trial mechs sux in most times because some needs skilled players... Or shall PGI introduce pre-made, temporal\trial drop decks for cadets\beginners?

PGI can give people as many mechs as they want. Mechs aren't real, and aren't finite. Nobody has to go into the mech mine to dig them up. There's no scarcity here, so why do you act like there's some kind of artificial scarcity that makes us unable to afford giving new players more mechs to fill a deck?

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

5.: Shall we able to eat our sandwiches waiting for drop with the next mech like in FP? Or insta-drop? Or whatever? Shall QP dropzones also have walls like FP dropzones? DZ camping for farming would be enabled? Or finally they introduce the **** Union dropship to protect the dropzones? Seriously, brainbugs are responsible for the Leopard dropships the game currently use or someone consumed more shrooms that he\she should have been?

Concerns about the drop zones are about the only coherent thing that's been mentioned in this entire thread. However, you're just rehashing repeated conjectures about how drop decks will 100% mean drop zone farming. That didn't actually happen all that often in FP, and FP has fundamentally different maps and game modes that make it more likely.

Apples and Oranges, but most of you already know you're making a flawed comparison and are doing it anyway because you aren't interested in a discussion.

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

6.: Oh, you see nothing yet! Just wait how should these forums look like after we got QP dropdecks!
Tons of farmin', baby! Literally bitchin' time! Just as Tzeench planned...

Conjecture. We both know you can't prove this but you and everyone else has been declaring it as though it were set in stone.

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

Waaaait?!
Did I written something what not fully trolling?!
Shame on me! Shame on me!

Despite what you may think, i've actually been trying to engage people reasonably this entire time. Most of you are using the same bad talking points and they have been dismantled repeatedly. That doesn't mean we're being rude to you, it just means you're wrong.

Edited by pbiggz, 26 April 2023 - 12:00 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

< Be me.
<Haven't played for about a week.
<Logged into game, queue'd up, waited.
<Got in game. Both teams have solid players I recognize.
<Apologize to my team, I'm gonna be rusty.
<Game starts. I scout, find the enemy, launch UAV.
<Watch my team head for the enemy, nascaring right naturally.
< Team stacks up, trying to hide behind each other's armor.
< I go left, to try to get angles.
< First team mate dies. Complains that nobody is working as a team.
< Second team mate dies. Agrees with first guy.
<Game starts to snowball, team is running out of each other's armor to hide behind.
< I'm alone, 1v11.
<I run around the map counter clockwise looking for glory.
<Find my first enemy. He's fresh. We trade some shots, I leave.
< Find my second enemy. He's fresh. We trade some shots, I keep running.
<Find my third enemy. He's fresh, but I know it's over. Circle strafe him until I die.
< End the game with 328 damage. Most of my team was less than 200.
< Recognize that my team was caught flat footed.
< Understand that with respawns, we still could have clenched a victory.
< Acknowledge that the snowball robbed me of a fun match.
< Feel bad about how I spent my time. Log out.

[KursedVixen]

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 11:12 AM, said:

1.: Drop decks of how? Tonnage limit? Class-limit? What kind of decks are we may talking about? Because with 255t limit (that much a clan drop deck's limit in FP) easily let you bring four heavies. MM how would consider such a deck? MM already fails to balance classes mostly because some people tend to ride on weight class exclusively.

2.: Drop decks for groups? Groups already have a tonnage limit depends on the number of members drop together. How may drop decks affect that? And how would such groups - when dropping in a match - affect the match-quality? Again lots of topics grow crying about "ban groups ohforfsake!"...

3.: What about those whom play QP because that is a one-mech, swift game? If one wants such a match need to use private lobbies or what? Many said they play QP because QP not force you to use waves of mechs. They would be banned from even QP? As one said a new mode would be perhaps better (not count inability to make such a new mode because lack of coder\programmer\techno-shaman)...

4.: Drop decks from what? Beginners rarely have four mechs already (+ see point 1-2 corresponding to this one)... They should use trial mechs? Trial mechs sux in most times because some needs skilled players... Or shall PGI introduce pre-made, temporal\trial drop decks for cadets\beginners?

5.: Shall we able to eat our sandwiches waiting for drop with the next mech like in FP? Or insta-drop? Or whatever? Shall QP dropzones also have walls like FP dropzones? DZ camping for farming would be enabled? Or finally they introduce the **** Union dropship to protect the dropzones? Seriously, brainbugs are responsible for the Leopard dropships the game currently use or someone consumed more shrooms that he\she should have been?

6.: Oh, you see nothing yet! Just wait how should these forums look like after we got QP dropdecks!
Tons of farmin', baby! Literally bitchin' time! Just as Tzeench planned...




Waaaait?!
Did I written something what not fully trolling?!
Shame on me! Shame on me!

The other problem is that clans don't have the number of mechs IS does, drop decks limit clans more than IS.

[pbiggz]

KursedVixen, on 26 April 2023 - 06:49 PM, said:

The other problem is that clans don't have the number of mechs IS does, drop decks limit clans more than IS.

Quickplay is mixed tech, so just setting a weight limit (which i think should be fairly low) works across the board.

[Duke Falcon]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2023 - 11:56 AM, said:

You're assuming a dropdeck weight that will let you arbitrarily criticize, and then dismiss it. The dropdeck weight can be whatever PGI wants it to be. It also essentially eliminates weight-based matchmaking because everyone brings the same tonnage. Next.



Groups have no impact on this. For the same reason as above; weight-based matchmaking goes away when everyone just gets to bring the same tonnage. Next.



Nobody actually plays quickplay because its short. They play it in spite of it being short.

The gameplay loop for this game is dogshit. You spend 5+ minutes in queue just to maybe, best case scenario, get 10 minutes of gameplay, if you win or die last. More than likely you'll get a minute of gameplay, followed by 5-10 minutes of spectating, then you get to do it again. You're spending maybe a quarter of the time in MWO actually playing.

Drop deck solve this, and yes, even with drop decks, quickplay matches can be, and are, quick. The event queue was proof of this.

Next.



PGI can give people as many mechs as they want. Mechs aren't real, and aren't finite. Nobody has to go into the mech mine to dig them up. There's no scarcity here, so why do you act like there's some kind of artificial scarcity that makes us unable to afford giving new players more mechs to fill a deck?



Concerns about the drop zones are about the only coherent thing that's been mentioned in this entire thread. However, you're just rehashing repeated conjectures about how drop decks will 100% mean drop zone farming. That didn't actually happen all that often in FP, and FP has fundamentally different maps and game modes that make it more likely.

Apples and Oranges, but most of you already know you're making a flawed comparison and are doing it anyway because you aren't interested in a discussion.



Conjecture. We both know you can't prove this but you and everyone else has been declaring it as though it were set in stone.



Despite what you may think, i've actually been trying to engage people reasonably this entire time. Most of you are using the same bad talking points and they have been dismantled repeatedly. That doesn't mean we're being rude to you, it just means you're wrong.

I see your points as I did earlier. But I think you built upon things considering your own tier. It not made all my questions invalid though. Not make your answer clear things enough to be calm about a brighter future...
To many times I saw on lower tiers that weight-classes are distorted. Five assaults on one side but a single light. Or the opposite. Such things could affect greatly a match. Dropdecks help upon this how? If everyone want to bring a 4xheavy drop deck then matches would be really boring, right? Or PGI determines drop decks like for EQ? Then you spent as much time to built a deck as the match would took? Sorry but QP drop decks have lots of shady points what need to be "officially clarified", then field tested before introduced. What works well in EQ where there is no tier-limitation, may fail if you let half-yolo T5-4 teams together, what albeit funny, finally toss you back to more challenging modes like FP.
Again, I see what did or do you mean. You want drop decks in QP because that may fix some flaws QP have. Would do for sure, the problem is not that! The problem is always the new flaws what are the result of lack of enough testing or intent to code\whatever properly.
And when I talk about farming I mean farming. I am in T5, check it on my profile. I easily farm the others there in QP if I am not drop for sheer stupidness. A drop deck for me in these lower tiers mean accomplish free mechs events shorter than ever. Because farming. And before you ask why not I rise through the tiers: Why should I? If I want challenge I drop in FP or group drop in higher tiers or play EQ. Drop decks would not motivate me to rise in QP higher. The contrary instead, because it create even a more friendly "live weapon test" for me. +more fun seeing how some potatoes done silly things like a mech-comedy.
So, just to make my point clear, clarify how or what I think about introduce or not the drop decks in QP:
You know what? I do not care! I would not come to complain here later to the forums you let things being easier. But there would be many who will came here and cry. Add decks! If you so eager about that. BUT give us an officially clarified explanation how would those EXACTLY work and not modify them every month because this-or-that not works as intented! Give drop decks ONLY if those trully work because we not need something what may sounded good but basicly works broken. Give us details, carved in stone and not apologies later why not things works as they SHOULD be.

Or finally everything would vanish as Solaris7?

Meh! Who cares untill we have a more-or-less working FP... I am done here with this whole DD-topic! May you be right about DDs despite the fact that most things in MWO never worked as they should been...

[Widowmaker1981]

Duke Falcon, on 26 April 2023 - 10:30 PM, said:

And before you ask why not I rise through the tiers: Why should I? If I want challenge I drop in FP or group drop in higher tiers or play EQ.

Its not a question of 'why should you' its 'why ARENT you'. If T5 is farmville for you, as you say, you should rise in tier automatically. Your comment leads me to believe you are intentionally keeping your tier low so you can farm. is that the case?