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Patch Notes - 1.4.272.0 - 24-January-2023


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#81 Curccu

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 09:12 AM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 22 January 2023 - 04:47 AM, said:

Maybe this is an issue for 8v8 comp players, but it has little to no bearing on 12v12 QP matches, and don't Compers only play on Canyon Network anyway?

With all that you kinda say that cap locations are totally ****** up and REALLY really needed to become more even, so I don't understand why you are against it.

And how about Faction?

View PostZader39, on 22 January 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:


Huh? Heavy PPC's have the min range, but this is for the whole PPC family. Snub doesn't, Light PPC doesn't, ERPPC doesn't, etc. It's not like it's a clan mech and only have the one choice ... this is a massive buff.


Yeah kinda funny if you wanna do bit toasty ERPPC crab it is possible to do about 4000m/s ERPPC bolts Posted Image

#82 C337Skymaster

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 11:09 AM

View PostCurccu, on 22 January 2023 - 09:12 AM, said:

With all that you kinda say that cap locations are totally ****** up and REALLY really needed to become more even, so I don't understand why you are against it.


Uh, no, I said they're fine, because the ability to see all the cap points from one location does not equal the ability to influence or control all the cap points from one location. There's too much going on on that map to do so effectively.

Put it another way: that map has had those cap points in those locations for 10 years. In 10 years time, I haven't once heard any complaints about their placement, I haven't had any complaints, nor seen any complaints about their placement. Assault and Incursion have been complained about at length for years. But Conquest is the one they're messing with?

#83 John Bronco

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 11:45 AM

The imbalanced nature of the cap points on crimson has long been a discussion for comp, and often precluded the map from play due to the disparity.

#84 Curccu

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 12:24 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 22 January 2023 - 11:09 AM, said:

Put it another way: that map has had those cap points in those locations for 10 years. In 10 years time, I haven't once heard any complaints about their placement, I haven't had any complaints, nor seen any complaints about their placement. Assault and Incursion have been complained about at length for years. But Conquest is the one they're messing with?


Then we are talking in having discussions in different places because I hear complaints about those all the time.

#85 sycocys

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 01:21 PM

Also something interesting to note on the Hunch IIC quirk structure reduction - the Urbanmech has as almost as much armor as the Hunch IIC while being 20 tons lighter and most of them having ridiculous weapon quirks to boot.

That's balance.

#86 sycocys

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 01:27 PM

View PostPocketYoda, on 22 January 2023 - 07:13 AM, said:

CRB-27:
  • Removed 10% Energy range
  • Removed 30% Weapon velocity
  • Removed -15% STD Laser cooldown
  • Removed -10% STD Laser heat
  • Added 60% PPC Family velocity
  • Added 10% PPC Family range
  • Added -10% Energy cooldown
  • Added -10% Energy heat
I still wont use PPCs because they have that "death zone" at close range..


That is just going to make the 27 even more ridiculous with snubs, it was already very good but this pigeon-holing builds into mechs with quirks just sucks. It's bad for balance, and bad for the overall game play and build variety.

#87 FatBumbleBee

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 02:22 PM

A map fix that needs to come about is a change in the base "yellow" terrain color in Caustic Valley. It is the same "yellow" color as the Domination mode circle/point.

#88 sycocys

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 02:40 PM

View PostFatBumbleBee, on 22 January 2023 - 02:22 PM, said:

A map fix that needs to come about is a change in the base "yellow" terrain color in Caustic Valley. It is the same "yellow" color as the Domination mode circle/point.

Saw that yesterday, was pretty hilarious.

#89 C337Skymaster

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:14 PM

I mean, we could always just remove Domination from Caustic Valley. Nobody wants to go to the center of that map, anymore, anyway.

#90 sycocys

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:22 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 22 January 2023 - 04:14 PM, said:

I mean, we could always just remove Domination from Caustic Valley. Nobody wants to go to the center of that map, anymore, anyway.

Or just make the color one that isn't the same as the colors of any of the terrain.

#91 C337Skymaster

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:29 PM

View Postsycocys, on 22 January 2023 - 04:22 PM, said:

Or just make the color one that isn't the same as the colors of any of the terrain.


Sadly, removing the mode seems to be easier for PGI to accomplish...

#92 sycocys

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:33 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 22 January 2023 - 11:09 AM, said:

Assault and Incursion have been complained about at length for years. But Conquest is the one they're messing with?

Well to be fair conquest is a considerably easier fix, just needs better placement of the caps and the teams spread out so they contest lances at the 3 center caps.

They could probably do something with assault by using that big area system they have with domination at each base and making it med/light lances v assault/heavy lance. At least it would be functionally different.

Can't comment much on Incursion as I've only been able to force it with multipliers once and it honestly was a far better match played out even with the somewhat wonky mechanics of transporting energy. Only thing I could say off of one play is maybe make things stay on unless they get damaged enough to turn them off - or they only stay on if you are in a certain proximity of the base and not destroyed and remove the energy transport you just turn them on/repair with the cap mechanic.

#93 C337Skymaster

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:45 PM

View PostCurccu, on 22 January 2023 - 12:24 PM, said:

Then we are talking in having discussions in different places because I hear complaints about those all the time.


Sounds like Comp circles, then. It's pretty easy for the back-side team to take Gamma, with skirmishes at Kappa, Epsilon, and Theta. 20 ton 'mechs fit pretty well behind the center structure so they can hide from distant snipers, once the local area is secured. You get your big battle around Theta while light 'mechs do their best to secure the satellite cap points, with the survivors of the battle cleaning up and capping out the map.

Assault/Incursion, on the other hand, pin the back-side team between their base and the saddle. If they slip away from there, to go to the normal tunnel fighting area, the waterfront team simply pushes over the saddle and caps/demolishes their base. It's very hard to recover from that.

Tell me which issue affects the greater percentage of the player base, and then tell me again why the issue that seems to only affect a small niche group is the one that is being addressed before the issue that affects the entire player base?

You know what else just occurred to me? cERLL just had their base range increased to match with cERPPCs... How much of an issue was this before there were weapons that could even reach across with the level of pinpoint accuracy that you get from lasers?

#94 C337Skymaster

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:57 PM

View Postsycocys, on 22 January 2023 - 04:33 PM, said:

Well to be fair conquest is a considerably easier fix, just needs better placement of the caps and the teams spread out so they contest lances at the 3 center caps.

They could probably do something with assault by using that big area system they have with domination at each base and making it med/light lances v assault/heavy lance. At least it would be functionally different.

Can't comment much on Incursion as I've only been able to force it with multipliers once and it honestly was a far better match played out even with the somewhat wonky mechanics of transporting energy. Only thing I could say off of one play is maybe make things stay on unless they get damaged enough to turn them off - or they only stay on if you are in a certain proximity of the base and not destroyed and remove the energy transport you just turn them on/repair with the cap mechanic.


Incursion is actually an excellent game mode which is really fun to play, is really well balanced on other maps, and running batteries is an amazing way to level up 'mechs that move faster than 100 kph (better than 120 kph, preferably).

On Crimson Strait, specifically, it's a pretty straight shot from the base on the water to the saddle. From the top of the saddle, they can shoot down into the enemy base and hit a few of the structures. At least with Assault, capping stops as long as someone in the cap point is taking damage. With Incursion, a dedicated team can roll down into the base and shoot the base structures, ignoring the fact that they're being shot by turrets and other 'mechs, and wipe out the base structures before they all die, unless they're all killed between the saddle and the base by the defending team. The waterfront team thus always has the initiative, and always has control over the match.

With Assault, the base is in the same area, but you have to go down to it, and stand in it, and while you're taking damage, the cap progress stops. This means the defending team has a chance to return-to-base, either going back the way they came, or circling around behind the enemy team and shooting them all in the back from the Saddle area where they just were. It's still hard, and the waterfront team still has the initiative, but the odds are still better than getting into the top of the saddle only to find your base a smoking ruin and a "defeat" banner at the top of the screen.

Conquest is five cap points spread across the map. They accrue one point per second per base, and the first team to 750 points wins. It's easily the best game mode in the game because the main battle can happen over any of the five cap points, or over two or three of them at once. Most Skirmish/Assault/Domination/Incursion matches, the same fight happens in the same place, every time.

Oh, and the complaint is that you can see three (or four) of the cap points from one location on the map, and thus "control" those cap points with one 'mech. I'm arguing that that's a gross exaggeration of the capabilities of the 'mech in question. There aren't really many places to move those cap points where they can't be seen from that point, however, since that point overlooks at least 1/2 the map, because it's an island with open water providing clear sight lines.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 22 January 2023 - 05:00 PM.


#95 Voice of Kerensky

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 04:58 PM

It's very funny to compare quirk changes between IS/Clan in general and between INC-5 and PNT-8Z in particular.

#96 Ralph Edwards

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 06:12 PM

Return of the Nerf
It is (return of the Nerf)
Come on (return of the Nerf)
Oh, my God (you know that I'll be back)
Here I am
Return of the Nerf
Once again (return of the Nerf)
Top of the world (return of the Nerf)
Watch my flow (you know that I'll be back)
Here I go

Edited by Ralph Edwards, 22 January 2023 - 06:15 PM.


#97 An6ryMan69

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 07:11 PM

The Clan IIC Rifleman hero is NOT showing up in the Dropship deal!

Edited by An6ryMan69, 22 January 2023 - 07:11 PM.


#98 Voice of Kerensky

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 07:40 PM

View Postnopempele, on 21 January 2023 - 08:37 AM, said:

Removing armor quirks in MAD-IIC is justified in my opinion, people have been tanking them a lot lately.


If mech is often used, then you need to make it so that no one wants to use it? Good logic.
If we take this approach to balancing the game, what happens to the MWO when there are only mechs that no one wants to play?

#99 sycocys

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 08:21 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 22 January 2023 - 04:57 PM, said:


Incursion is actually an excellent game mode which is really fun to play, is really well balanced on other maps, and running batteries is an amazing way to level up 'mechs that move faster than 100 kph (better than 120 kph, preferably).


I thought Incursion was an enjoyable mode, the match quickly got spread out and stayed that way until the end.

IMO conquest would just be massively better if the lances were dropped in opposition to each other across the center line of points and maybe even just give each team their base point. Initial fighting is over 3 points, with the rest depending on how those matchups play out.

Assault has always sucked, they added ct turrets at one point which made it suck more. And to my recollection that's the only thing they ever tried. If they had a zone you needed to be in to defend or lose points on it should be a relatively simple change given a mode like domination uses a similar system and would be far better than what they have.

View PostC337Skymaster, on 22 January 2023 - 04:29 PM, said:

Sadly, removing the mode seems to be easier for PGI to accomplish...

With some of the choices I see they could probably just eliminate all modes and every map but canyon network and be fine most nights. Had canyon at least 5 matches in a row one night, just shut the game off -would rather play on classic forest with 11/12 of each team being sniper builds shooting clear across the map.

#100 Steel Shanks

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Posted 22 January 2023 - 08:30 PM

Do you smell that PGI? I do... That would be the ***** ye stepped in...

I'd friggin' cancel this Patch... Because what it entails is idiotic beyond all reasoning...

The game is quite balanced right now, so WHY F--- it up? WHY? Invisible walls? Nerfs for no reason? Look I hate Clanners, I REALLY do, but their Mechs don't need Nerfing... Especially the poor Hellfire... If anything, buff the damn thing, I kill a lot of them. Vipers can be killed pretty easily too, WHY Nerf their CT?

Look... The Cauldron has done good, however they generally do far more BAD, that lasts, and lasts, before they do good again... Sad too say... Cancel this Patch, and RETHINK what needs to be done, because this ain't it. I am a huge MWO fan, but yer starting to wear Me down guys... Hard to defend PGI when yer doing stupid things like this...





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