259 replies to this topic

[BLACKR0SE]

I don't know why people question me.
I'm just stating my complaint.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 17 April 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

TAMTAMBABY, on 17 April 2023 - 01:06 PM, said:

thank you guys, i have already tried these.

I am aware of the timeframe. and I am conscious of that. The time interval doesn't matter when doing hit and run behind a hill.

I know that the enemy can attack at any time. I agree that this is its weaknesses.

You do realize that this is not my only machine, right?



dude i use it normally on other maps. and i don't have any problem.

I just can't use it on hot maps.

Remember, every machine has a weak spot.

You've progressed pretty fast recently from T5 to T3, so what you're doing is obviously working for you at the moment. However, you will likely find that as you get into T2 and T1 matches you get punished much harder for standing in the open for long periods. If/When that happens, consider changing your build.

[BLACKR0SE]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 April 2023 - 01:21 PM, said:

You've progressed pretty fast recently from T5 to T3, so what you're doing is obviously working for you at the moment. However, you will likely find that as you get into T2 and T1 matches you get punished much harder for standing in the open for long periods. If/When that happens, consider changing your build.

catching the right moment. Performing surprise attacks.. This is at the core of the game.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 17 April 2023 - 01:25 PM.

[BLACKR0SE]

I know one day I will to encounter all the t1's here.

[Heavy Money]

4HLL+4ERML is actually an excellent build on the Timberwolf. GeeRam popularized it on the TBR-S awhile back. Ebon Jaguar can also run it (but loses JJ/ECM). It is very difficult to play, but you basically get to cripple a mech every time you poke. It is vulnerable to being pushed of course, but so is all laservom.

On the subject of what to put on the HBR:
Reducing your alpha to run a couple more DHS incase you get pushed is a big loss for a minimal advantage.

Compare these builds:
2HLL+6ERML+ECM: https://mwo.nav-alph...3078e_HBR-PRIME
2HLL+4ERML+ECM: https://mwo.nav-alph...b2437_HBR-PRIME


By swapping 2ERML for 2DHS, you lose 13dmg off your alpha and you max DPS drops from 12.7 to 10.2 But your sustained dps goes from 6.2 to 6.7. So basically you are gutting your alpha potential, which is the main point of this build, and your sustained DPS barely changes. So the idea that 2HLL+4ERML is better for fighting off pushes or damage over time is not the case. You should be running 2HLL+6ERML+ECM on the HBR. 2HLL+4ERML is training wheels while learning to manage heat. Its just worse in the long run.

Now look at 4HLL+4ERML+ECM: https://mwo.nav-alph...8fab6_HBR-PRIME
98 alpha, 15.4 max dps, but sustained dps falls to 4.6. That is a big drop. And the ATO is only .7 (alpha heat 1451%). You have so few DHS that even with skills, you're going to cook a bit when you alpha (and that is assuming the HLLs are staggered.) This is why you don't want this on the HBR. The same loadout on the TBR or EBJ can run a lot more DHS (~4) and so can alpha properly (they still cook a tiny bit, but not an amount that really matters.)

Its not ideal on the HBR because you have less tonnage to work with due to not having Endo and Ferro, so you lose a lot of DHS. The point of the Laservom HBR is to have ECM at 65t. If you can run a TBR instead, always do that. If you're stuck at 65t and not using the ECM, the JAAAAG is better. And remember that the HBR is running 2HLL+6ERML+ECM while the Jag is running 2LPL+6ERML+TC1 with better heat. Or the TBR runs 2LPL+6ERML+ECM/JJ. And if you own both sunspider heroes, it runs 2LPL+6ERML+TC1+LAP with the best mounts.

Edited by Heavy Money, 17 April 2023 - 02:11 PM.

[LordBraxton]

It's been like this for ages now, and it's why I stopped playing.

Brawling has always been what separates mechwarrior from a tank game.

However, the 'cauldron' people rebalanced the game to fit their favored playstyle and it has been this way ever since.

They should have left PPCs as a niche weapon, and not raised HSL on so many mechs\weapons.

This has been a long ranged boating\camping game forever. I remember I mentioned this years ago, and one of the ego-driver cauldron guys posted a video of him camping tunnel with a LBX boating annihilator in frozen city, to prove that brawling still works rofl.

That's not brawling. That's camping with a boat rofl.

They should nerf the cooldown of all long range weapons by a huge amount, so that when a short range build closes with them, their DPS is just exponentially better.

Edited by LordBraxton, 17 April 2023 - 02:46 PM.

[Heavy Money]

LordBraxton, on 17 April 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

It's been like this for ages now, and it's why I stopped playing. Brawling has always been what separates mechwarrior from a tank game. However, the 'cauldron' people rebalanced the game to fit their favored playstyle and it has been this way ever since. They should have left PPCs as a niche weapon, and not raised HSL on so many mechs\weapons. This has been a long ranged boating\camping game forever. I remember I mentioned this years ago, and one of the ego-driver cauldron guys posted a video of him camping tunnel with a LBX boating annihilator in frozen city, to prove that brawling still works rofl. That's not brawling. That's camping with a boat rofl. They should nerf the cooldown of all long range weapons by a huge amount, so that when a short range build closes with them, their DPS is just exponentially better.

If that's true, why is midrange the highest performing playstyle on average?
Boating/camping is a symptom of timid PUGs not cooperating. Its not the fault of any Cauldron weapon changes.
Mid range laservomit and Dakka is the top playstyle on average.

Edited by Heavy Money, 17 April 2023 - 03:18 PM.

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 17 April 2023 - 03:17 PM, said:

If that's true, why is midrange the highest performing playstyle on average?
Boating/camping is a symptom of timid PUGs not cooperating. Its not the fault of any Cauldron weapon changes.
Mid range laservomit and Dakka is the top playstyle on average.

I do kind of miss the too-brief supersnub era. It was nice to have people realize there was a good brawl weapon and *use* it.

Boating, though... Boating is just kind of an inherent consequence of a human attention budget. The fewer decisions you have to make, the faster you can make them, and the better odds you make the right choice. So simplifying your loadout to the maximum extent practicable makes a mech that much easier to drive, regardless of skill, and means you've got your attention more available for positioning, map watching, etc,

Edited by foamyesque, 17 April 2023 - 07:52 PM.

[pbiggz]

foamyesque, on 17 April 2023 - 04:08 PM, said:

I do kind of miss the too-brief supersnub era. It was nice to have people realize there was a good brawl weapon and *use* it.

Boating, though... Boating is just kind of an inherent consequence of a human attention budget. The less decisions you have to make, the faster you can make them, and the better odds you make the right choice. So simplifying your loadout to the maximum extent practicable makes a mech that much easier to drive, regardless of skill, and means you've got your attention more available for positioning, map watching, etc,

This plays out in actual military doctrine at least part of the time. A tool should do its job, not 3 different jobs, because chances are, the more jobs the tool does, the worse it does each job.

[Heavy Money]

foamyesque, on 17 April 2023 - 04:08 PM, said:

I do kind of miss the too-brief supersnub era. It was nice to have people realize there was a good brawl weapon and *use* it.

Boating, though... Boating is just kind of an inherent consequence of a human attention budget. The less decisions you have to make, the faster you can make them, and the better odds you make the right choice. So simplifying your loadout to the maximum extent practicable makes a mech that much easier to drive, regardless of skill, and means you've got your attention more available for positioning, map watching, etc,

Yeah. Boating is its own issue and can't be addressed by any specific weapon changes. Its just a law of nature that its better to boat the same weapon rather than mix because of issues like range sync, mixed lockons, etc. There's no solution to this problem unless some artificial penalty was introduced for boating, or bonus introduced for mixing weapon types. Both options have their own issues too.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i personally don't play Clan mechs so i can't give any advice on those. as for overheating i rarely have that problem. i usually shoot for a 1.4 heat management (before JJs of course and some weapons like RACs i have to calculate differently.). for me this runs good on any map no matter the heat. i have lost count how many times i win a brawl (i tend towards mid range builds for the versatility so if i get into knife fighting range i have made a mistake) because the other mech has overheated themselves. if they are running override they are damaging themselves if not they shut down. of course this takes a LOT of twisting and such to survive the initial onslaught. (its really funny when a flamer light tries to overheat me and i just keep firing)

as for boating yeah i would like to see some kind of incentive to play mixed builds but thats more because i find them more fun that pure boating. hell i Love LRM a weapon you pretty much have to boat to do any real damage especially if there is a good bit of AMS on the field. even on an LRM mech i tend to carry some kind of energy weapon for when something under runs my lurms. hell i out faught an f-ing Fafnir the other day in my LRM Dervish (2 LRM-15, 4 ER-SLs) with mostly just the back-up weapons (mind you he was damaged by my lurms and running hot but still if i didn't have those i would have been dead). hell one of my favorite mechs to run for fun is my Stalker-3FB running 2 LRM-15, 2 ER-LLS, 2 MLs, its not meta but it is fun. ( i couldn't give two shits about meta)

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

LordBraxton, on 17 April 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

They should nerf the cooldown of all long range weapons by a huge amount, so that when a short range build closes with them, their DPS is just exponentially better.

I'd rather they reduce some of the obscene maximum ranges on Gauss/ERPPCs/ERLLs/maybe AC2s of various flavors.

[Widowmaker1981]

LordBraxton, on 17 April 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

It's been like this for ages now, and it's why I stopped playing.

Brawling has always been what separates mechwarrior from a tank game.

However, the 'cauldron' people rebalanced the game to fit their favored playstyle and it has been this way ever since.

They should have left PPCs as a niche weapon, and not raised HSL on so many mechs\weapons.

This has been a long ranged boating\camping game forever. I remember I mentioned this years ago, and one of the ego-driver cauldron guys posted a video of him camping tunnel with a LBX boating annihilator in frozen city, to prove that brawling still works rofl.

That's not brawling. That's camping with a boat rofl.

They should nerf the cooldown of all long range weapons by a huge amount, so that when a short range build closes with them, their DPS is just exponentially better.

What im getting from this is that what you really want is for brawling to be the ONLY viable playstyle, so all matches are mechs walking around in the open, twisting and shooting?

Respectfully, not everyone wants that. I DONT particularly enjoy it (because i dont feel fully in control of my own success/failure - if im called and focused im going down, no matter what i do), and what separates MechWarrior from a tank game for me is the ability to design mechs and then run them in a PvP environment. So, i want multiple different playstyes to be viable. Which they currently are, i can run mechs with SPLs, Snac20 etc and (on most maps) have just as much fun as running quad LPL mechs or massed dakka.

Brawl weapons already outdps longer range options by a huge amount. Just drop in the 1v1/2v2 event with a long or mid range mech and see what happens when you come up against an SRM brawler team. If you want it to be even more one sided once the brawler gets in range, i think thats just bias toward that playstyle.

[BLACKR0SE]

VIRAGO

4x HLL

[BLACKR0SE]

I wish all my machines were like this.

[Pixel Hunter]

either way, long range laser vomit needs to be toned down. The extra heat for range isn't enough of a trade off. ERLL either need a big DPS nerf or a heat scale nerf. I know some people will complain, but an ERLL boat should be as helpless as an LRM boat when cornered.

Edited by Pixel Hunter, 05 May 2023 - 08:55 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Pixel Hunter, on 05 May 2023 - 08:54 PM, said:

either way, long range laser vomit needs to be toned down. The extra heat for range isn't enough of a trade off. ERLL either need a big DPS nerf or a heat scale nerf. I know some people will complain, but an ERLL boat should be as helpless as an LRM boat when cornered.

Why should it be that helpless? Pure ERLL boats are already very vulnerable up close. What matchup are you having trouble with?

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 05 May 2023 - 09:00 PM, said:

Why should it be that helpless? Pure ERLL boats are already very vulnerable up close. What matchup are you having trouble with?

It should be as helpless as an LRM boat up close because it's far stronger than an LRM boat at range

[Heavy Money]

foamyesque, on 05 May 2023 - 09:35 PM, said:

It should be as helpless as an LRM boat up close because it's far stronger than an LRM boat at range

Not when comparing their performance against targets out of LOS

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 05 May 2023 - 10:14 PM, said:

Not when comparing their performance against targets out of LOS

I'll give you that when you don't have LOS the two are about equal :v