259 replies to this topic

[BLACKR0SE]

you know what's hard?

Not knowing which map will appear when sniper or rush picks a mech.

I fight in all terrains. but it's hard when I don't know the map where I'm going to war.

[Johny Rocket]

counter sniper mech

Ad0;20P0|G@|EdpF0|PG|PG|PGqF0|^<2|PG|PGr=0sD0|G@tL0uL0v70w806060

and my preferred skill tree for it.

a0010810834480046baefffffff20742040daedde050000401667ec501000

Edited by Johny Rocket, 08 April 2023 - 10:06 AM.

[Leadpaintchips]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 04 April 2023 - 08:25 PM, said:

Lots of gamer 'superiority' rambling

I dunno, I like playing a giant stompy robot game that has the whole group playing different roles and aren't dominated by one playstyle like sniping, LRMs, or brawling. Where there's a couple of assaults spearheading the push, couple of heavies supporting them, some mediums wolfpacking about picking off stragglers, and some lights getting intel and denying the opponents attempts at intel.

I don't find it fun to have whole teams humping rocks, firing at each other at 1k m away. Just like I don't find it fun to have the whole team humping corners 400 m away from the enemy team or 3/4 of the team standing at spawn waiting for the lights to give them targeting information to rain down hell on one poor sod who didn't hump a rock.

But go on about how anyone who wants build diversity and dynamic fights should go play CoD's campaign on easy instead.

[Ken Harkin]

The cure to snipers is communication. The only thing a light mech should be more eager to hear about than a sniper is a LRM boat. When you see a sniper call out his location and keep out of his sight. When you are a fast light listen for those calls and respond. Snipers generally suck in a knife fight against fast moving lights.

[R Valentine]

And yet you guys still vote for Free Worlds Coliseum, which is sniper heaven.

[foamyesque]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 April 2023 - 05:15 PM, said:

And yet you guys still vote for Free Worlds Coliseum, which is sniper heaven.

I've actually found pretty reasonable success on FWC via pushing through folds in the terrain. As long as a team is willing to commit, the snipers are screwed because unlike on some other classic sniper maps (Tourmaline, Peaks, new HPG, etc) you don't have to walk a long way around to get to them. Midrange builds can do really, really well there.

[Widowmaker1981]

foamyesque, on 11 April 2023 - 12:26 AM, said:

I've actually found pretty reasonable success on FWC via pushing through folds in the terrain. As long as a team is willing to commit, the snipers are screwed because unlike on some other classic sniper maps (Tourmaline, Peaks, new HPG, etc) you don't have to walk a long way around to get to them. Midrange builds can do really, really well there.

Fully agreed that midrange works absolutely fine. Tbh i think high mounts, mobilty and ECM are considerably more important in purple land than extreme range is - i do much better in a quad LPL Sunspider or a HLL Shadow Cat than i do in something like an ERLL Supernova or ERPPC Warhawk.

I think the reason people call it sniper heaven is that it is extremely difficult (borderline impossible in most matches, in my experience) to get anything done at all if you drop in a mech with snub range or less, especially if the mech does not have ECM or extremely high mobility. Getting shot from outside your range 'feels' like getting sniped.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 11 April 2023 - 07:36 AM.

[OMEGAsBeast]

Kynesis, on 25 March 2023 - 01:21 AM, said:

Games now frequently consist of both teams hiding while being picked apart, until one side feels that their snipers have been more successful and then it's all just clean up.
It's not interesting, it's definitely not fun and it essentially makes the game unplayable for me.

I'm just one person though - does the community more generally like or prefer the game as it is now?

Sniper meta is the worst meta by far, and what makes it even worse, is that most of the new maps are made around sniper meta, and to cater to sniper meta (with the exception of the newest Coloseum), so it makes it even worse.

People ***** about LRMs so they nerfed LRM range from 1000 to 900 starting meters.. yet we have weapons doing damage from well over 1500+ meters, with zero chance of return fire because it's very difficult to see those targets unless you yourself are also a sniper.

It's simply just not fun to play.

[feeWAIVER]

Widowmaker1981, on 11 April 2023 - 07:34 AM, said:

Fully agreed that midrange works absolutely fine. Tbh i think high mounts, mobilty and ECM are considerably more important in purple land than long range is - i do much better in a quad LPL Sunspider or a HLL Shadow Cat than i do in something like an ERLL Supernova or ERPPC Warhawk.

I think the reason people call it sniper heaven is that it is extremely difficult (borderline impossible in most matches, in my experience) to get anything done at all if you drop in a mech with snub range or less, especially if the mech does not have ECM or extremely high mobility. Getting shot from outside your range 'feels' like getting sniped.

There's only like 2 places in the map with high enough cover to fight with confidence that any random on the other side of the map won't light you up.
Most of the map is compromised of low plateaus.
There's lots of "hills" that look like hills, but you get to the top and you find you have to run another 30 seconds to get to the other side. That whole time it takes you to get to the other side, you are in full open view to anyone with a gauss rifle that wants to kill you.

When playing conquest, Theta is a kill box open to the entire map, with nothing but an urbie sized phallus for cover.
Meanwhile, you're getting wrecked by anyone with range.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 11 April 2023 - 07:43 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

feeWAIVER, on 11 April 2023 - 07:41 AM, said:

There's only like 2 places in the map with high enough cover to fight with confidence that any random on the other side of the map won't light you up.
Most of the map is compromised of low plateaus.
There's lots of "hills" that look like hills, but you get to the top and you find you have to run another 30 seconds to get to the other side. That whole time it takes you to get to the other side, you are in full open view to anyone with a gauss rifle that wants to kill you.

I think good mobility, high mounts and ECM are more valuable than extreme range because there are so many hills and ridges you can hump, if you stay mobile and avoid being skylined you can get lots of free trades. I have absolutely no issue getting a HLL/ERML Shadow Cat into optimal range of literally anywhere on the map without being damaged.

To be honest though, the way people cry bloody murder any time there is a map where its even possible to get lines of sight of 1000m or more, it sort of feels like a lot of people think that it should never be possible to actually make use of the full range on the longest range weapons. And thats silly, given they have the worst DPS, and mostly the worst DPH, in the game, why would anyone use them if they couldn't make use of the range?

(Edit: im not talking about Alpine, i think sniping on that map is problematic due to the extreme lack of cover combined with nearly perfect visibility)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 11 April 2023 - 09:33 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Widowmaker1981, on 11 April 2023 - 09:28 AM, said:

I think good mobility, high mounts and ECM are more valuable than extreme range because there are so many hills and ridges you can hump, if you stay mobile and avoid being skylined you can get lots of free trades. I have absolutely no issue getting a HLL/ERML Shadow Cat into optimal range of literally anywhere on the map without being damaged.

To be honest though, the way people cry bloody murder any time there is a map where its even possible to get lines of sight of 1000m or more, it sort of feels like a lot of people think that it should never be possible to actually make use of the full range on the longest range weapons. And thats silly, given they have the worst DPS, and mostly the worst DPH, in the game, why would anyone use them if they couldn't make use of the range?

(Edit: im not talking about Alpine, i think sniping on that map is problematic due to the extreme lack of cover combined with nearly perfect visibility)

Ironic that even Alpine has way more cover than the purple fishbowl

[Leadpaintchips]

Widowmaker1981, on 11 April 2023 - 07:34 AM, said:

Fully agreed that midrange works absolutely fine. Tbh i think high mounts, mobilty and ECM are considerably more important in purple land than extreme range is - i do much better in a quad LPL Sunspider or a HLL Shadow Cat than i do in something like an ERLL Supernova or ERPPC Warhawk.

I think the reason people call it sniper heaven is that it is extremely difficult (borderline impossible in most matches, in my experience) to get anything done at all if you drop in a mech with snub range or less, especially if the mech does not have ECM or extremely high mobility. Getting shot from outside your range 'feels' like getting sniped.

TBH I've had about equal success with this map as any of the 'brawler' maps with builds that are that range (I'm a potato, so the success rate is not great overall). When I don't have success is when the team loses the skirmish up on the sniper hill, and the medium ranged keep on peeking the same spots so snipers have an easy time of hitting them, along with no one else willing to commit to a push. So the same problems as every other brawl-y map, where the team gets picked off because of indecision.

[foamyesque]

feeWAIVER, on 11 April 2023 - 03:30 PM, said:

Ironic that even Alpine has way more cover than the purple fishbowl

Not in the least. Alpine's cover, such as it is, is in widely-separated hills -- i.e., sniper forts. There's very few ways to approach without eating an absolute rain of fire, and once you get there you are not-infrequently confronted with the fact they're up a hill that is not easy for you to climb while under fire.

FWC is loaded with rat runs, trees, and rolling terrain that work for breaking LOS and screening approaches. It's just not the bigass pillars in front of your face that people're used to from other maps.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

OMEGAsBeast, on 11 April 2023 - 07:40 AM, said:

Sniper meta is the worst meta by far, and what makes it even worse, is that most of the new maps are made around sniper meta, and to cater to sniper meta (with the exception of the newest Coloseum), so it makes it even worse.

People ***** about LRMs so they nerfed LRM range from 1000 to 900 starting meters.. yet we have weapons doing damage from well over 1500+ meters, with zero chance of return fire because it's very difficult to see those targets unless you yourself are also a sniper.

It's simply just not fun to play.

than is a Modern Shooter with modern Long range weapon and bad eyes not yours, better play Mordhau or Deliverance ...oh damn Archers.

[BLACKR0SE]

hll and therma as if they are too easy?

When I fall on a hot map with hll, I do only one thing, I commit suicide.
It's better than being a toy.
The problem is incompatible machine. I have to use ballistics on that map.

It's enough to shoot 3 4 times.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 16 April 2023 - 03:58 PM.

[foamyesque]

TAMTAMBABY, on 16 April 2023 - 03:57 PM, said:

hll and therma as if they are too easy?

When I fall on a hot map with hll, I do only one thing, I commit suicide.
It's better than being a toy.
The problem is incompatible machine. I have to use ballistics on that map.

It's enough to shoot 3 4 times.

Terra Therma isn't even the hottest map, excluding lava. That's Rubellite. However, the difference between Rubellite and the coldest map (HPG, because PGI didn't understand vacuum) is only 0.45 heat/s -- or two DHS. That's enough to be noticeable, but it's not gonna make *any* build 'useless' on a hot map.

[BLACKR0SE]

foamyesque, on 16 April 2023 - 07:03 PM, said:

Terra Therma isn't even the hottest map, excluding lava. That's Rubellite. However, the difference between Rubellite and the coldest map (HPG, because PGI didn't understand vacuum) is only 0.45 heat/s -- or two DHS. That's enough to be noticeable, but it's not gonna make *any* build 'useless' on a hot map.

I understand you.
but I'm already designing a hot build.
I want it to be strong.
because it is powerless against other machines.
My machine is already at the limit.

When it's hot it makes me very weak.

while a ballistic machine is coming towards me.
I'm dealing with temperature warnings.

do you think i want this?

All I want is for this fight to be fair nothing else.

If you use ballistics, I can use it too.
Why am I a scapegoat?

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 17 April 2023 - 03:13 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

I find myself in lava while the enemy is attacking me with ac10, ac20, rac structures on the bridge, should I like this?

Why can't I attack?
because the machine is hot.
Why doesn't the temperature drop?
because the map is hot.

[BLACKR0SE]

I love all maps. Do not get me wrong.
but as long as I'm fighting compatible machines.

[Widowmaker1981]

TAMTAMBABY, on 17 April 2023 - 03:08 AM, said:

I understand you.
but I'm already designing a hot build.
I want it to be strong.
because it is powerless against other machines.
My machine is already at the limit.

When it's hot it makes me very weak.

while a ballistic machine is coming towards me.
I'm dealing with temperature warnings.

do you think i want this?

All I want is for this fight to be fair nothing else.

If you use ballistics, I can use it too.
Why am I a scapegoat?

If your build cannot work on all map temperatures, its a bad build. If its as non-functional on therma as you make out, its probably a bad build on cold maps too - as mentioned the dissipation difference isnt that massive.

TAMTAMBABY, on 17 April 2023 - 03:17 AM, said:

I find myself in lava while the enemy is attacking me with ac10, ac20, rac structures on the bridge, should I like this?

Dont stand in the lava, maybe?

Why can't I attack?
because the machine is hot.
Why doesn't the temperature drop?
because the map is hot Its legs are immersed in literal molten rock...

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 17 April 2023 - 05:24 AM.