259 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

Blood Rose, on 26 March 2023 - 04:55 AM, said:

Why am I being penalised for bringing a big mech that wants to be within 600 metres of the target?

Do you think all maps should be set up so that the biggest, highest DPS mechs have no downsides? Why would anyone play anything else?

Blood Rose, on 26 March 2023 - 04:55 AM, said:

So, overall, your ideal meta consists of long range high damage sniping platforms duking it out with lightning boom and zoom glass cannons skirmishing in the margins and trying to achieve a breakthrough so as to hit the other teams snipers. That sounds shite to me m8.

So whats your ideal meta? Big swirly brawls where if the enemy team decides to focus you just die and theres nothing you can do about it? Cos that sounds shite to me, so i guess we have to deal with the fact that different people want different things.

[L1f3H4ck]

Runecarver, on 26 March 2023 - 03:44 AM, said:

Nearly every map we've had introduced in the last few years has favored snipers heavily. You should consider thinking before you post in an attempt to sound smart and smug in your self-perceived superiority.

Vitric, Hellebore and Emerald have very easy ways for short range mechs to approach. Long range is viable on these maps but not required. On purple map you get insta-punished from up high as soon as you step out of cover. There has been a noticeable meta change since that map came out, maybe you don't play the game enough to notice? Have you thought about following your own advice?

[Heavy Money]

This thing of blaming the sniping meta on the Cauldron changes is absurd. Do you think people didn't snipe on Frozen City before the Cauldron? It was all cERPPC sniping back then. What's different now is that you can sniper with more types of weapons. The role isn't different, it just isn't all Vapor Eagles and Madcats now. Many long range options are weaker than they used to be, or lost range, like clan large pulse lasers.

Sniping is dominating because people are running counters. There's so many tools available like light and medium harassers, mid range dakka, etc.

If you get sniped and then your response is to get in your own sniper and sit there in a 1500m standoff, then its your own fault. Don't come whine here.

I have no problem running roles other than snipers on every map except brawlers on alpine.

Edited by Heavy Money, 26 March 2023 - 04:48 PM.

[LordNothing]

feeWAIVER, on 25 March 2023 - 11:08 PM, said:

There is no sense in reducing erll dmg up close. You are already paying for the extended range with extra heat, cooldown, and burn time.

they can still rip a leg off of a squirrel that tries to stop them. thats my basis for the short range nerf. the counter should at least be a threat.

otherwise perhaps reflective is a better option.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 March 2023 - 02:02 PM.

[Ihlrath]

I mean if more than roughly 75% of the community is of the mind that sniping and long range has been buffed way, way too much why then does a small chunk of the player base get to slant the game in their favored playstyle? I'd have far, far more respect for the cauldron guys if they would just admit that's what they've done because any of us would do the same in their position.

Like I left for over 6 months for RL issues, come back and it's WORSE with a brand new Prince Tribute Map that is ... flat out... a soup bowl of sniper self-touching paradise.... come on now. This is just ridiculous and its beyond absurd that they're STILL denying it. PGI.. hey maybe reign them in eh? No more ERLL/ERPPC/Gauss buffs until they 'balance' some other things.

[simon1812]

Snipers are overrated, a smart light pilot can find them and backstab them easily whole they are focusing on a target thousand meters away.

[Heavy Money]

Ihlrath, on 26 March 2023 - 03:25 PM, said:

I mean if more than roughly 75% of the community is of the mind that sniping and long range has been buffed way, way too much

Tell me more about these sniper buffs. What are they? If 75% of the community said the sky is leopard print, they'd still be wrong.

Ihlrath, on 26 March 2023 - 03:25 PM, said:

their favored playstyle?

Provide any evidence that its their preferred playstyle. You can see them drop in all sorts of stuff. You can watch many of them (and other top players) on YouTube and see a huge variety. This is just a forum meme that salty people repeated until others believed it.

Sniping appears overpowered because you really notice it when it screws you over. But people don't notice it when snipers get nothing done. These forums simultaneously manage to think sniping is too strong, and that lights are too strong because they counter snipers. And many people don't even correctly realize when what killed them isn't a sniper. I've shot people with heavy gauss at 500m and had them start complaining about snipers. We've seen threads where people think AC5's and cLPLs are sniping.

Yeah, if people categorize all long range and most of mid range as "sniping", then sure lol.

Edited by Heavy Money, 26 March 2023 - 04:47 PM.

[Ihlrath]

You hear and see constant complaints about it and I dunno about you but I'm seeing ERLL strapped to locusts.... locusts! Am I exaggerating a little for comedic effect? Sure. But saying that the game hasn't been slanted towards that sort of playstyle is just being willfully blind, likely because that's your preferred playstyle.

Realistically? They're about where they SHOULD be when you look back at Mechwarrior and Battletech. But they're good, lets see some balancing for other weapon systems/playstyles. I tend to run lights and mediums a lot so I get where you're coming from with how laughable the lights being OP is as a statement in general. But things like streaks, LRMs, ATMs do need some rebalancing to bring them into line with Mechwarrior/Battletech standards. Right now they're mostly niche weapons. (ETC killing lights with streaks, suppression fire, and so forth.)

If the Cauldron players play such balanced loadouts.. and I've watched many of their streams and easily 3/4s of them are running sniper boats most of their matches.... why is it that locking back on patch notes its mainly buffs to long range sniping weapons and quirks? They did a decent job making more chassis useable, I will give them credit on that as it is deserved. But there's no way anyone can look at the state of the game and say that since April of 21 it hasn't moved further and further into the sniper meta.

This isn't COD.

[Heavy Money]

Ihlrath, on 26 March 2023 - 04:58 PM, said:

You hear and see constant complaints about it and I dunno about you but I'm seeing ERLL strapped to locusts.... locusts! Am I exaggerating a little for comedic effect? Sure. But saying that the game hasn't been slanted towards that sort of playstyle is just being willfully blind, likely because that's your preferred playstyle.

Realistically? They're about where they SHOULD be when you look back at Mechwarrior and Battletech. But they're good, lets see some balancing for other weapon systems/playstyles. I tend to run lights and mediums a lot so I get where you're coming from with how laughable the lights being OP is as a statement in general. But things like streaks, LRMs, ATMs do need some rebalancing to bring them into line with Mechwarrior/Battletech standards. Right now they're mostly niche weapons. (ETC killing lights with streaks, suppression fire, and so forth.)

So you can understand that the lights being OP statement is wrong despite hearing about it a lot, but you can't understand the same for other stuff? Sounds like you need to spend some time in a sniper assault until you understand.

If you look back at the patch notes, you'll find some initial buffs 1.5-2 years ago, and then a lot of nerfs. Currently imo we do have a couple of overtuned sniper mechs (the NTG and DWF-C with Gauss+ERLL.) But that's two mechs, not the whole role.

Lockons are their whole mess unfortunately. That's mostly a problem with the Cauldron being unable to change much on them as its code level, not XML level. PGI has to find an engineer to make changes.

Ihlrath, on 26 March 2023 - 04:58 PM, said:

But there's no way anyone can look at the state of the game and say that since April of 21 it hasn't moved further and further into the sniper meta.

I can say it. Sniping was strong then but limited to a couple of weapon types, as were many other roles. Now sniping is still strong, but can be done in more ways. Other things are much stronger than before. Medium to long range has expanded a lot. For example, AC5 boating wasn't worthwhile then, and now its very powerful, for example. But it isn't sniping. Laservomit was good and got stronger (more because of skill tree than buffs), but that's not sniping either.

We passed through an era where cLPL and cERLL were too strong, but they have been toned back a lot. We aren't dealing with 5LPL Blood Asps and RFL-IICs zapping everything anymore.

Are people playing a lot of pokers, and are many of those long range? Yes. But that isn't sniper meta. Good people in long range mechs are going to farm damage against teams that let them do it, and that produces some very high numbers now and then. But that also isn't sniper meta, that's good players vs bad. They can do it in other mechs too. And players who aren't that good are not dominating in snipers, they're getting ganked by lights or out traded by laservomit that got close.

Edited by Heavy Money, 26 March 2023 - 05:14 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Blood Rose, on 26 March 2023 - 04:55 AM, said:

Why am I being penalised for bringing a big mech that wants to be within 600 metres of the target?

There are hundreds of mechs in the game. It's up to you to make smart choices.
Any mech can be big and dumb, even lights.
Do I want a locust 1V or a spider 5V? They are virtually the same, except the spider can have jumpjets, and that's cool.. but it also has a big dumb belly that's easy to shoot. The locust has no jump jets, but it's got a higher hardpoint and a smaller body. So I pick the locust, but that's me.

It's up to you not to make dumb decisions in the mechlab.
As for speed tweak on slower mechs- if it can get me from like 60 to 64ph, it's a good value in skill investment.
if the goal is to poke and get cover asap, then an extra ~4kph or whatever will get you there faster, or at least make it slightly less sluggish. But whatever.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 26 March 2023 - 07:29 PM.

[MrTBSC]

i wouldn´t nerf ERLL dmg up close as some seem to suggest
LRMs may have minrange but can lock and be fired behind walls and cover, lets not forget that even if AMS and ECM is around
imho here NARC needs to be buffed to be effective against ecm be it the user or being in a bubble AND stealth.

also consider the overall damage most missile weapons can do compared to the tonnage of large lasers
SRMs do 2 damage per missile, ATMS even more the closer you get, you can fire them more often and as such deal more damage
even the lightest MRM launcher can deal about as much dmg as a ER LL

sure you WILL spread the damage of missilelaunchers across a mech but thats about the only real drawback to be honest
to me the only weak missilelauncher would be streaks because they are hardlimited to lock only and severly spread their damage to only really be effective against lights and mediums .. so them being able to dumbfire even if with a worse spread than default SRMs would still be nice to have ...

the only nerf i can imagine to add to ERLL or ER lasers in general is to increase their burntime in order for the player to have to be exposed slightly longer ... so there is a bit enough time for actual retaliation and this should particularly add up to ERLL boats especialy Clan ...

do you know which players have the toughest time in MWO? RAC users ...
RAC already has to be exposed for its damage over time but also has to spool up in the first place ..

AC2s make only really sense if in significant enough packs (like 3 or 4) anyway but then also have an easier time to deliver their damage in short bursts .. RACS however you HAVE TO hold ...

Edited by MrTBSC, 27 March 2023 - 06:10 AM.

[Cryorm]

MrTBSC, on 27 March 2023 - 06:03 AM, said:

... do you know which players have the toughest time in MWO? RAC users ...
RAC already has to be exposed for its damage over time but also has to spool up in the first place ..

Honestly, with the RAC, it's best using a rifleman strategy. Flank, pre-warm your barrels so they're already nearly ready to fire as you pop out, and get get on target and blast away a lot quicker. Basically, playing with the barrels often enough, you can figure out the sound for when you almost fire, and keep it there. Sure, you lose out on DPS over longer times, but it increases your burst DPS as you are already spun up.

[pbiggz]

sniper meta isnt a problem; people not counterplaying is a problem.

If your first instinct is to make a thread instead of figuring out why you died and how you can stop that from happening, then you don't want to play a competitive multiplayer game. You just want to turn on cheats.

If y'all got everything you wanted and all weapons beyond 600 meters were nerfed to zero damage half of you would cry that all the weapons got nerfed so hard, while the other half would move on to the next boogie man and decide brawling was a problem because its not really about power, its about being mad about what killed you most recently, and making half-hearted bad faith arguments to try to justify a conclusion which you already reached.

If you want to have a conversation about exactly how powerful ER lasers are, you can, but a sweeping "sniper meta bad" argument is not a real argument. Its just the same old forum boogieman thread with a new coat of paint.

Edited by pbiggz, 27 March 2023 - 11:32 AM.

[Curccu]

Ihlrath, on 26 March 2023 - 04:58 PM, said:

You hear and see constant complaints about it and I dunno about you but I'm seeing ERLL strapped to locusts.... locusts!

How would you build this mech?
https://mwo.nav-alph.../mechlab/lct-1v

[MrTBSC]

Curccu, on 27 March 2023 - 11:42 PM, said:

How would you build this mech?
https://mwo.nav-alph.../mechlab/lct-1v

lct-1v

Edited by MrTBSC, 28 March 2023 - 12:11 AM.

[Curccu]

MrTBSC, on 28 March 2023 - 12:10 AM, said:

lct-1v

um-r60l is pretty good substitute for your locust build .
I'd probably go something like this lct-1v

[MrTBSC]

Curccu, on 28 March 2023 - 12:48 AM, said:

um-r60l is pretty good substitute for your locust build .
I'd probably go something like this lct-1v

a non ERLL build

lct-1v

of course risky, but workable

or lct-1v

Edited by MrTBSC, 28 March 2023 - 01:14 AM.

[Curccu]

MrTBSC, on 28 March 2023 - 12:55 AM, said:

a non ERLL build

lct-1v

of course risky, but workable

or lct-1v

Yep both functional, but IMO to use quirks to max and take advantage very fast and small frame to shoot from far away and not getting return fire very easily and easy to relocate. So I don't really understand why the fellow to whom I quoted about this earlier is so shocked seeing ERLL in Locust.

[Weeny Machine]

The problem is the silly range of ERLL

JediPanther, on 25 March 2023 - 12:09 PM, said:

If only there were a weapon to counter static stationary game play. Like a bunch of missiles or some thing you could fire from long range that could work as a counter.

If only there was a counter to missile locks, which would let you snipe the missile boat and before he can lock on you you hunker back into cover...

Seriously, how many ECM boats are there per match?

Edited by Weeny Machine, 28 March 2023 - 06:16 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

MrTBSC, on 28 March 2023 - 12:55 AM, said:

a non ERLL build

lct-1v

of course risky, but workable

or lct-1v

Drop the machine guns. Snub only.
Max engine, max armor, no ams.