316 replies to this topic

[Aidan Crenshaw]

TheCaptainJZ, on 14 April 2023 - 06:43 PM, said:

The changes to BAP makes the IS version straight up superior to the clan version. For the clan version, as I recall, it only counters ECM of the enemy you have target locked, not the closest enemy! So if you aren't locked on a mech with ECM, you aren't countering it. You have to micromanage Clan AP, but not IS BAP for now the same cost.

You'd be wrong on that. Clan APs work exactly like BAP. See below for reference:

[AmbidXtrousGNOME]

we are so far into the weeds that if PGI every reads this far, good for them. Hey PGI, leave a comment if you in fact read this far into a crazy thread : >

My opinions on everything that has been going on in this thread:
1. LGD mechs: I like the Marauder might get that one (in reference to a previous post: might try a gauss-ppc build but don't worry, i'm a bad shot so i'll probably go back to LBX). Really not sure about the shadowhawk. I feel like a good slogan might be "tired of accurately hitting the same component? Heck, even hitting the same mech? we got you fam!" The vel. would counter the LBX a little bit but the missiles, good grief. Can the C-Bills on the SH be like +80% because farming Assaults will be the payout of the century as I blow up every component, bolt-on, or anything within a 20m proximity. I like the SH skin.

2. Drop Deck in QP: I have mixed feelings. I agree with a lot of what has been said, this could be really bad or this could open interesting opportunities to make the game better. However, from my few years of experience with this game, I've learned that "new" development can be challenging for PGI because of the exhausted resources of their dev team for MWO (probably more so right now with the unannounced MW6 game in the works). So will this be a "we have this function so lets just toggle it on as is" or "will we put in dev time to make it work well for QP". idk

3. Equipment Changes / Battletech Purity: First, I would call myself a BT casual, not a purist. Those of you who can rattle off BT lore and specs like it's tattooed to your eye-balls, props, that's impressive and I genuinely have learned a lot of cool BT stuff from reading posts like yours. I understand a purists stance on wanting MWO to be like BT. I have other things in media I share the same passion about. Example, when the Witcher came out on Netflix, it was like pulling out my fingernails to finish just the first season (screw the second, got 10 minutes into the first ep and said "forget this"). I'm a Witcher book snob and the Netflix show is an abomination and should be killed with fire. However, if you like the NF Witcher, good for you, I hope it will get you into the books and games, you know, the better stuff (joke). BUT, PGI needs to pay their people and BT is still a really niche community so I get the choice of becoming loose with BT lore and tailoring more to new players (not that I agree or like all of the changes). If MWO is going to keep going it needs new players and needs to make money. Out of all the F2P games I've tried, MWO is my personal favorite that I feel is extremely fair in what they allow players to do/get for free.

4. Nerf / Cauldron: I personally would love to zero out all mechs and just let the chasse hardpoints be it's resume but here we are. To make 1000 different mechs feel equal is never going to happen. Because the cauldron is made of comp players (good comp players) it makes sense why changes tailor to comp styles (how can I do the most dmg without being dmg in return) and not lore based team play (you have scouts, LRM support, Assault brawlers, stock [lore] loadouts etc). If the Cauldron drives the boat on what get's buffed and nerfed, well then the 99% of the community is at their mercy. Not much else to say, this is PGI's call on who to listen to. I don't think everything the Cauldron recommends is bad but I feel the meta of sit and snipe 1000m away with up front dmg is the norm b/c that is a very good comp play style. I get it, if i can destroy your mech before you can even scratch my paint, I win, I want to win.

5. It's just a game: Last point, it's just a game and should be fun. If MWO isn't fun for you just take a break. Come back later and see if you like it again. If you are one of the surviving members from 2013 and you feel like MWO has run it's course and you just don't dig it's chilly anymore, it's OK to walk away and be happy with all the good times you had with it. For myself I usually play the free month's mech and by the end of the event I need to take a break so I move onto other things and when the next month's mech comes I'm ready to play and enjoy MWO again. I have to tell myself after the 50th straight 0-12 loss I experience, "it's just a game, do something else if you're mad"

GLHF O7

Edited by AmbidXtrousGNOME, 17 April 2023 - 07:45 AM.

[Matt Newman]

Confirmed I am in the weeds out here reading.

[AmbidXtrousGNOME]

Matt Newman, on 17 April 2023 - 08:37 AM, said:

Confirmed I am in the weeds out here reading.

Hi Matt!

[Tarteso]

Why you put all these ridiculous "HP trees" (aka, anti-lurm umbrellas) all around the map? Terrain not enought to get cover for snipers? LOL
Add a new (indirect) nerf to the list.

Seriously, PGI should consider dismiss once and for all the proposals conceived to suppress to oblivion the use of canonical weapon systems for the Battletech universe in a Battletech-based game. Supposedly.

Run event queues for the lurm haters instead!

Edited by Tarteso, 17 April 2023 - 10:19 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

The drop deck for QP is very much worth trying out, glad to see it on the agenda!

I have read comments both for and against, and there may be some risks, but it can be tweaked moving forward, or completely pulled again, if things go as bad as some fear.

Not being able to match your mech to your environment and mission has always struck me as both making life much harder for newer (and therefore less versatile) players and also as being just generally absurd overall, especially in a game trying to have some manner of plausibility/believability/realism. Plausibility dictates that in any military situation there is planning for that specific situation, but that was always lacking here.

Having completely random mechs with random skills and random loadouts being dropped into random environments with random victory conditions is just....way too random to not lead to unnecessary frustration and to an eroding of the plausibility of the game.

And don't get me started on Tier 1 players randomly farming Tier 3 players, or organized groups randomly eating up solo players....

Edited by An6ryMan69, 17 April 2023 - 10:45 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

Thank you for the best update I've ever seen.

[Roodkapje]

Oidipus Prime, on 16 April 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

Reverse the Fafnir hitbox changes!

More like do them properly! Both the old and new ones are IMHO not the right ones!

C337Skymaster, on 16 April 2023 - 06:24 PM, said:

I use a TC4 every time I take a Warhawk A or B out for a spin, or any other Clan 'mech with between 15 and 20 tons of direct-fire weaponry which incorporates a Targeting Computer. TC5 for 20.5-25 tons of Clan direct-fire, and on 'mechs whose stock build is supposed to include a C3 Master Computer (at the moment, just Shugo, the Hatamoto Chi hero).

Dunno about the Shugo, but to add that thing to a Warhawk also means losing a lot of space for Heatsinks and since it's a ER PPC Boat basically I don't see that as the right choice!

Or am I missing something here ?!

Quote

Yeah, me too. But you know that, even when they don't say it, anything that seems like it's coming out of the blue is coming from these "Cauldron" jokers, who are the absolute elite of the elite, and look at this game in a complete vacuum, with little regard for what it's supposed to be simulating, and THEY twist, and prefer all the Pinpoint Front Loaded Damage weapons so they can fire as they twist past their target, without stopping to aim, and either have such good eyesight, or such good computers, that they can time their trigger pull to when they're just passing over the component they want to shoot (ears are a big one), so they can take full advantage of engine weaknesses by carving the side torsos off in one or two shots, while we poor plebeians have barely scratched their paint.

Thus much weeping and gnashing of teeth at the weakness that is the IS XL engine.

Agree!

C337Skymaster, on 16 April 2023 - 06:28 PM, said:

As much as I take advantage of Ghost Heat exception quirks, I'm starting to think that those limits were imposed specifically with some of those 'mechs in mind, even though they are the stock builds, and granting them exceptions is just pushing power creep too far. I'm thinking of Awesomes with 3x Heavy PPCs, King Crabs with 2x AC/20, 3x SNPPC, any Clan 'mech with 2x UAC/20 (although the jam on those is such that I'm not too afraid of them so long as I don't get surprised by one at less than 100 meters). The exceptions for lasers and Gauss/PPC, in particular, feel like they're getting a little out of control.

Dunno man... I like my KGC with a similar loadout to the Supernova : 2 AC/20 and some SRM and ML support

And like i said earlier : 3 x Heavy PPC basically has no place in this game unless you are a suicidal MechWarrior at the moment...

C337Skymaster, on 17 April 2023 - 01:22 AM, said:

Oh, chiming in on this whole "drop deck in QP" or "pre-match 'mech selection" idea: Matt, a much more "balanced" approach to something like this (which technically should only be available to Omnimechs, but "balance" and all that), is not to allow the selection of different 'mechs before the game drops, but to be able to use the "save/load loadout" 'mechlab feature in the loading screen. Once the match loads, players can load a pre-saved build that they saved on THAT chassis (MAD-4H with LRMs or SRMs, depending on the map, for example, or Atlas with ERPPC/Gauss, or AC/20/SRM, etc, but always that MAD-4H, because that's what they dropped in, or always their AS7-D, because that's what they dropped in).

I think it'll be easier to implement, and it'll help cut down on the straight up abuse that system will take, otherwise.

I've been toying with the idea for this system for a year or two, now, but it was originally intended to reflect the flexibility of Omnimechs, and the rigidity of Battlemechs, that an Omnimech can be quickly reconfigured in the drop ship above a planet, or in a Forward Operating Base between skirmishes, and a Battlemech cannot. It was also supposed to provide justification for PGI to add IS Omnis.

That would also mean spending a lot more C-Bills on each mech for each Loadout and I already see many players complaining about not having enough C-Bills so while you and I probably don't care and have enough C-Bills to throw around it's not an option for everyone sadly!

But apart from that I think it's a good idea!

TAMTAMBABY, on 17 April 2023 - 02:13 AM, said:

I think the only problem with the old players here is to maintain their rank.

Maybe when the PSR system gets fixed one day I might actually start caring about it! LOL!

AmbidXtrousGNOME, on 17 April 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

I don't think everything the Cauldron recommends is bad but I feel the meta of sit and snipe 1000m away with up front dmg is the norm b/c that is a very good comp play style.
I get it, if i can destroy your mech before you can even scratch my paint, I win, I want to win.

I also want to win, but not by having a long boring ER PPC/PPC/ER LL/LURM game!

Quote

5. It's just a game: Last point, it's just a game and should be fun.
If MWO isn't fun for you just take a break. Come back later and see if you like it again. If you are one of the surviving members from 2013 and you feel like MWO has run it's course and you just don't dig it's chilly anymore, it's OK to walk away and be happy with all the good times you had with it. For myself I usually play the free month's mech and by the end of the event I need to take a break so I move onto other things and when the next month's mech comes I'm ready to play and enjoy MWO again.

Pretty much the same thing here since those Events became the standard

Quote

I have to tell myself after the 50th straight 0-12 loss I experience, "it's just a game, do something else if you're mad"

GLHF O7

I am not having fun that way and that's why I think it's really important to have Events that will teach players how to play properly :
- Stay together/grouped!
- Scan with R
- Spot with E
- Use UAV when you can!
- Especially use that UAV to alert your team of an ambush!
- Team mate f-ed up and getting shot to pieces while powered down by mistake ?
Get in front of him when you can and share some damn armor!
- Your ECM and AMS can actually help your team too! Don't wander off on your own all alone!
- And so on...

Tarteso, on 17 April 2023 - 09:47 AM, said:

Why you put all these ridiculous "HP trees" (aka, anti-lurm umbrellas) all around the map? Terrain not enought to get cover for snipers? LOL
Add a new (indirect) nerf to the list.

Seriously, PGI should consider dismiss once and for all the proposals conceived to suppress to oblivion the use of canonical weapon systems for the Battletech universe in a Battletech-based game. Supposedly.

Run event queues for the lurm haters instead!

You know that LURM doesn't even work like it's supposed to, right ?!

[DucPilot]

Lepestok, on 16 April 2023 - 01:01 AM, said:

This will lead to the fact that in open locations everyone will play only long-range weapons until the end of the battle. Everyone will stand still and just shoot.
On more closed maps, this is the opposite, leading to a meat grinder on melee mechs.
Don't do it!

I see no problem with this. It’s definitely better than bringing the wrong mech to the wrong map imo. Snipers just stand and shoot now, except the brawlers can’t return fire because they are not equipped to so. Why not bring mechs that can counter them? Also, if you want to bring a brawler to an open map, or a long range mech to a close range map, you still can. Different thoughts on gameplay I suppose. I say do it!

[DucPilot]

C337Skymaster, on 17 April 2023 - 01:22 AM, said:

Oh, chiming in on this whole "drop deck in QP" or "pre-match 'mech selection" idea: Matt, a much more "balanced" approach to something like this (which technically should only be available to Omnimechs, but "balance" and all that), is not to allow the selection of different 'mechs before the game drops, but to be able to use the "save/load loadout" 'mechlab feature in the loading screen. Once the match loads, players can load a pre-saved build that they saved on THAT chassis (MAD-4H with LRMs or SRMs, depending on the map, for example, or Atlas with ERPPC/Gauss, or AC/20/SRM, etc, but always that MAD-4H, because that's what they dropped in, or always their AS7-D, because that's what they dropped in).

I think it'll be easier to implement, and it'll help cut down on the straight up abuse that system will take, otherwise.

I've been toying with the idea for this system for a year or two, now, but it was originally intended to reflect the flexibility of Omnimechs, and the rigidity of Battlemechs, that an Omnimech can be quickly reconfigured in the drop ship above a planet, or in a Forward Operating Base between skirmishes, and a Battlemech cannot. It was also supposed to provide justification for PGI to add IS Omnis.

Now there is an interesting compromise.

[BLACKR0SE]

The first machine would be nice to have a burning torch in hand.

[Tarl Cabot]

C337Skymaster, on 16 April 2023 - 12:14 PM, said:

Ooor, we could bring back delayed weapon convergence, and not make every weapon always hit exactly the same point on a 'mech no matter what, with the smallest possible amount of time actually spent looking at the target, because "gotta keep twisting".

If we make it harder to carve up a 'mech like a thanksgiving turkey, then maybe we don't need as many armor quirks, and maybe we don't have such a disparity between IS and Clan XL engines.

Bring back weapon convergence???? I think that was in Closed Alpha/Early Beta, and PGI removed it destroyed host state rewind, program-wise. We would have better luck (still way out there) to have the engines properties changed than to have PGI introduce weapon convergence.

I mean, when Clans w/Omni were introduced, there were no heat/movement penalties, initially.

• 
  06-17-2014 Clans are here (fyi for newer players, initially no heat dissipation nor movement penalty when 1st ST was destroyed.... https://mwomercs.com...nsmission-pt-2/
  
• 
  09-08-2014 PGI bought out/kicked out IGP (publisher) https://mwomercs.com...ux-infinis-igp/
  
• 
  10-07-2014 cXL - Heat Penalty w/loss of one side torso 20% / isXL still dies to loss of one ST https://mwomercs.com...tober-road-map/
  
• 
  12-11-2014 Community Warfare Beta Release https://mwomercs.com...y-warfare-beta/
  
• 
  02-17-2015 VOIP functionality using integrated team speak SDK. https://mwomercs.com...bruary-roadmap/
  
• 
  09-24-2015 Clarifications about Tiers/PSR..../ same month cXL also received movement penalty of 20% https://mwomercs.com...-tiers-and-psr/
  
• 
  01-24-2017 cXL - Increase in heat dissipation penalty from 20% to 40% (many were expecting a change to isXL..) https://mwomercs.com...14101-24jan2017

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 17 April 2023 - 06:38 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

AmbidXtrousGNOME, on 17 April 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

3. Equipment Changes / Battletech Purity: First, I would call myself a BT casual, not a purist. Those of you who can rattle off BT lore and specs like it's tattooed to your eye-balls, props, that's impressive and I genuinely have learned a lot of cool BT stuff from reading posts like yours. I understand a purists stance on wanting MWO to be like BT. I have other things in media I share the same passion about. Example, when the Witcher came out on Netflix, it was like pulling out my fingernails to finish just the first season (screw the second, got 10 minutes into the first ep and said "forget this"). I'm a Witcher book snob and the Netflix show is an abomination and should be killed with fire. However, if you like the NF Witcher, good for you, I hope it will get you into the books and games, you know, the better stuff (joke). BUT, PGI needs to pay their people and BT is still a really niche community so I get the choice of becoming loose with BT lore and tailoring more to new players (not that I agree or like all of the changes). If MWO is going to keep going it needs new players and needs to make money. Out of all the F2P games I've tried, MWO is my personal favorite that I feel is extremely fair in what they allow players to do/get for free.

While I'm all for making the new player experience better, the changes being made are being made for the Elite Comp players, not for the new players. Elite Comp players want to be able to utilize equipment without being quite so heavily penalized on its weight or bulk, and since they have the direct, back-channel ear of PGI, they can recommend changes through this back channel that uniquely suit their perspective.

[C337Skymaster]

Tarl Cabot, on 17 April 2023 - 06:32 PM, said:

Bring back weapon convergence???? I think that was in Closed Alpha/Early Beta, and PGI removed it destroyed host state rewind, program-wise. We would have better luck (still way out there) to have the engines properties changed than to have PGI introduce weapon convergence.

I mean, when Clans w/Omni were introduced, there were no heat/movement penalties, initially.

• 
  
  
  06-17-2014 Clans are here (fyi for newer players, initially no heat dissipation nor movement penalty when 1st ST was destroyed.... https://mwomercs.com...nsmission-pt-2/
  
• 
  
  
  09-08-2014 PGI bought out/kicked out IGP (publisher) https://mwomercs.com...ux-infinis-igp/
  
• 
  
  
  10-07-2014 cXL - Heat Penalty w/loss of one side torso 20% / isXL still dies to loss of one ST https://mwomercs.com...tober-road-map/
  
• 
  
  
  12-11-2014 Community Warfare Beta Release https://mwomercs.com...y-warfare-beta/
  
• 
  
  
  02-17-2015 VOIP functionality using integrated team speak SDK. https://mwomercs.com...bruary-roadmap/
  
• 
  
  
  09-24-2015 Clarifications about Tiers/PSR..../ same month cXL also received movement penalty of 20% https://mwomercs.com...-tiers-and-psr/
  
• 
  
  
  01-24-2017 cXL - Increase in heat dissipation penalty from 20% to 40% (many were expecting a change to isXL..) https://mwomercs.com...14101-24jan2017

I see your references for proof, but I didn't buy a computer capable of running MWO until August of 2015, and I swear I remember the heat spike addition, before and after...

But yes, we need to do SOMETHING to make weapon fire less pinpoint. I honestly want to do away with convergence, entirely; that way you can corner-peek through an invisible wall and still hit the target with your exposed arm weapons, instead of getting the sideways-fire effect to hit a midair point 6 m in front of you.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 17 April 2023 - 06:58 PM.

[AmbidXtrousGNOME]

C337Skymaster, on 17 April 2023 - 06:37 PM, said:

While I'm all for making the new player experience better, the changes being made are being made for the Elite Comp players, not for the new players. Elite Comp players want to be able to utilize equipment without being quite so heavily penalized on its weight or bulk, and since they have the direct, back-channel ear of PGI, they can recommend changes through this back channel that uniquely suit their perspective.

I agree with your thought and share similar frustrations with the cauldron at times.

[Raffen Volt]

KursedVixen, on 14 April 2023 - 05:33 PM, said:

IS Beagle Active Probe:

• Equipment slots is reduced to 1 (from 2)
  
• Equipment weight is reduced to 1 ton (from 1.5 tons)

Comment:So why do we have clan mechs again???





Why do you constantly make clan mechs/tech obsolete???

Explain to me how this helps both sides??
idivudally it's not bad but combining both is.

How do you call this balance...

Let's just give IS clan tech it'll acheive the same result.

Lore wise, Inner Sphere tech made a lot of advances after the initial clan invasion due to Wolf's Dragoons sharing clan tech, and reverse engineering of salvaged clan Mechs, weapons, and equipment. The gap in technology gets reduced, but overall clan tech is still generally lighter, more compact, and weapon ranges are longer, particularly energy weapons.

[Grimjack Haxor]

Mad Cat MKII - Moonwalker:
Lower Arm Actuator is now functional (20 degrees horizontal actuation)

Finally, have been waiting to play until this got fixed.

[Duke Falcon]

So, a bad map became even worse? Nice...

The rest? Seems fair at first but we shall see in-game how well the changes works or fails... As always.

+ the new Marauder 2c seems promising. But why always ballistics? Why not a ER-PPC boat (with no-ghost heat quirks or something) considering the original design's energy-based loadout?

[Ralph Edwards]

Any plans on doing Legendary Omnimechs? The battlemechs are great and all but they do not capture the clan flavor.

[Not Him]

a Legend Mad ? oh yay