316 replies to this topic

[C337Skymaster]

TAMTAMBABY, on 15 April 2023 - 04:34 PM, said:

fireworks reminds me of solaris

I think that was the idea. Same with the Dirigibles.

[An6ryMan69]

The BAP changes are very welcome.

The nerfs, not a fan.

The SNPPC Vulcan, for example, is the best Vulcan, but its also the only one I ever see around - the real question is what's it going to take to have players use the others, and I don't think nerfing the best one is the answer.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 15 April 2023 - 06:16 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

An6ryMan69, on 15 April 2023 - 06:12 PM, said:

The BAP changes are very welcome.

What? No!! No they're not! First of all, we're changing the very foundations of the game. As I said earlier: if you're going to keep going this route, just allow mixed tech and be done with it. Quit turning IS tech into Clan tech. Just let IS use Clan Tech if you're so butt-hurt about it.

Secondly, if you keep turning half-ton equipment into whole-ton equipment (CASE: 0.5 > 0.0, now BAP: 1.5 > 1.0), how am I supposed to use up random half-tons of leftover weight?

Leave the tech alone!!! You're turning the entire game on its head, and anyone who gets into it now is going to have a harder and harder time transitioning to REAL Battletech-based games.

[WAAAGH WAGON]

Is it just me, or SCATTERSHOT with artemis srms look pretty P2W? I'm talking about something like: 3 srm-6s, 1 srm-4 (all with artemis), jumpjets, big engine...
But maybe i just don't fully understand how + spread quirks will interact with artemis system...

And, just for moment, let's just look at the rest of the Shadow Hawks. We have some similarity in 2H and 2D2. And they have much less quirks. Oh, yes, and they shake while using JJ!
Are you (PGI) not afraid to face a wave of indignation again (As was with Lower Arm Actuator of Moonwalker) when you will be needed to "сhange" new, donate mech? And no, everything suits me with the moonwalker, but some people still cannot calm down.

Well... I just hope, that all will be normal.

Edited by WAAAGH WAGON, 15 April 2023 - 06:45 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

WAAAGH WAGON, on 15 April 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

Is it just me, or SCATTERSHOT with artemis srms look pretty P2W? I'm talking about something like: 3 srm-6s, 1 srm-4 (all with artemis), jumpjets, big engine...
But maybe i just don't fully understand how + spread quirks will interact with artemis system...

And, just for moment, let's just look at the rest of the Shadow Hawks. We have some similarity in 2H and 2D2. And they have much less quirks. Oh, yes, and they shake while using JJ!
Are you (PGI) not afraid to face a wave of indignation again (As was with Lower Arm Actuator of Moonwalker) when you will be needed to "сhange" new, donate mech? And no, everything suits me with the moonwalker, but some people still cannot calm down.

Well... I just hope, that all will be normal.

No, unless someone typoed (and I'm thinking they didn't), Scattershot isn't meant to be P2W. Scattershot is meant to Meme, and to Meme HARD. It's got weapon spread INCREASES, not decreases. Artemis will be working against the quirks, not with them.

The quirks lean into the name of the 'mech: "Scattershot". You should be able to pop over a hill, see a team below you, and rather than dropping an arty to hit everyone in the group, just pull the trigger, and your shots will scatter across the entire enemy team in front of you.

An6ryMan69, on 15 April 2023 - 06:12 PM, said:

the real question is what's it going to take to have players use the other [Vulcans],

Having infantry to shoot at.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 15 April 2023 - 07:13 PM.

[Rhaelcan]

Ruth Bader Ginsburg, on 15 April 2023 - 01:17 PM, said:

As if the uac60 Moonwalker is a slower killer.

I don't understand why they couldn't hold to patch a weekend if it wasn't ready. There were zero reasons they couldn't and zero reasons they had to issue the patch that day.

Imagine if Tesla shipped you a car with an extra hundred horsepower and after you drove it for a weekend, they took it back?

That business move was certainly "LEGENDARY" lol

PS. If you bought moonwalker through steam, they will entertain refunds for it. PGI will not, so if you want buyer protections you need to buy through Steam or not at all.

I wasn't talking about uac60. 5 ac10. It had no ghost heat basically.

C337Skymaster, on 15 April 2023 - 06:31 PM, said:

What? No!! No they're not! First of all, we're changing the very foundations of the game. As I said earlier: if you're going to keep going this route, just allow mixed tech and be done with it. Quit turning IS tech into Clan tech. Just let IS use Clan Tech if you're so butt-hurt about it.

Secondly, if you keep turning half-ton equipment into whole-ton equipment (CASE: 0.5 > 0.0, now BAP: 1.5 > 1.0), how am I supposed to use up random half-tons of leftover weight?

Leave the tech alone!!! You're turning the entire game on its head, and anyone who gets into it now is going to have a harder and harder time transitioning to REAL Battletech-based games.

So, where were you when they decreased lbx5 size by 1

[C337Skymaster]

Rhaelcan, on 15 April 2023 - 07:36 PM, said:

So, where were you when they decreased lbx5 size by 1

Right here in the comments, irate at that one, too. It seems like all they care about is what might make Comp easier to min/max, rather than the soul of the game they've been entrusted with.

At this rate, it feels like they're slowly turning all of the IS weapons and equipment into their Clan counterparts, and in a few more years, all that will be left of the Inner Sphere will be the 'mech silhouettes.

They decreased LBX/2 size by 1 in the same patch. Couldn't accept that 2/5/10 sizes were 4/5/6 for the Inner Sphere when they're 3/4/5 for the Clans. HAD to make the 2's and 5's the same size as their Clan counterparts...

[Meep Meep]

Matt Newman, on 14 April 2023 - 06:40 PM, said:

FYI "drop decks" in quickplay may only mean Respawning 4 times in the same mech.
Or it may mean bringing in 4 mechs and only choosing one.
or it may be like Faction play.
We are not sure exactly how it will be implemented at this time as it would be "mode" dependent and modes are voted on.

We will do our best to keep you informed.

My take on qp drop decks is that you can make a drop deck with four mechs of the same weight class only and get the option ~after~ the map and mode have been chosen to pick one to drop with. One qp drop deck included with any account and more available for mc.

[sycocys]

C337Skymaster, on 15 April 2023 - 07:41 PM, said:

Right here in the comments, irate at that one, too. It seems like all they care about is what might make Comp easier to min/max, rather than the soul of the game they've been entrusted with.

At this rate, it feels like they're slowly turning all of the IS weapons and equipment into their Clan counterparts, and in a few more years, all that will be left of the Inner Sphere will be the 'mech silhouettes.

They decreased LBX/2 size by 1 in the same patch. Couldn't accept that 2/5/10 sizes were 4/5/6 for the Inner Sphere when they're 3/4/5 for the Clans. HAD to make the 2's and 5's the same size as their Clan counterparts...

Well its a pvp online Mechwarrior (not Battletech) game that equally matches clan vs is and they should have balanced the tech out from the start.

It's actually more of a problem that the tabletop enthusiasts can't concede that this is not a table top iteration - but also pretty interesting that the same tabletop "canon" only types fight tooth and nail that they keep their dual guass and ppc setups which are 100% not functional in canon. 1 guass and a couple medium lasers wouldn't even work without basically restarting your targeting system and completely de-syncing your fire.

I bet canon has some rules for running hot (especially in override) and how that would cook your cooling capacity and all of your computer systems. "Remember to override"

How about free strikes that don't require a piece of equipment to lob out your smoke marker?

"Skills" for your mech that have zero compensation for making your weapons shoot further, pack more ammo, recycle faster, more amor/structure that magically appears for no tonnage cost, speed boosts, mystic anti-targeting computer buffs?

Bet all of that slide right into the tabletop game smooth as butter.

[Miriage]

C337Skymaster, on 15 April 2023 - 06:31 PM, said:

What? No!! No they're not! First of all, we're changing the very foundations of the game. As I said earlier: if you're going to keep going this route, just allow mixed tech and be done with it. Quit turning IS tech into Clan tech. Just let IS use Clan Tech if you're so butt-hurt about it.

Secondly, if you keep turning half-ton equipment into whole-ton equipment (CASE: 0.5 > 0.0, now BAP: 1.5 > 1.0), how am I supposed to use up random half-tons of leftover weight?

Leave the tech alone!!! You're turning the entire game on its head, and anyone who gets into it now is going to have a harder and harder time transitioning to REAL Battletech-based games.

Whats a "REAL Battletech-based game"?

[Lepestok]

Matt Newman, on 14 April 2023 - 06:40 PM, said:

Or it may mean bringing in 4 mechs and only choosing one.

This will lead to the fact that in open locations everyone will play only long-range weapons until the end of the battle. Everyone will stand still and just shoot.
On more closed maps, this is the opposite, leading to a meat grinder on melee mechs.
Don't do it!

[Voice of Kerensky]

Matchmaker?
Separate solo/groups?
Return streaks?

[Buenaventura]

Some thoughts:
- Dreadnaught:
Some already seem to play this game as "Artillery Warrior Online", this abomination will only make it worse. I understand you want to sell mechs, but giving it these quirks is DESIGNED to have the other teams play experience diminished.
- Vulcan 5S nerf:
A mostly pointless nerf (depending on range and skill it doesn't change much) while not addressing the useless UAC/5 quirk you gave this.
- Phoenix Hawk 7S nerf:
This nerf also hurts other alternate builds. F.e. I had a quite fun one using 2xPPC+5xSL. With the coming nerf, that wouldn't be viable anymore, while it doesn't change much about the 2xSNPPC+5xSL build (see Vulcan 5S comment above).
- Free World Coliseum changes:
The fixes so you're not getting stuck in places and to some of the floating gras (and removing of the fireworks) is nice. The pillars will be annoying to get Shadow Cats and other snipers off of, especially in Skirmish.
- Terra Therma Crucible changes:
These seem nice, will have to test them out.
- Matchmaker:
While you don't want to get a separate group queue again, maybe try this for a quick change: Force players dropping as a group in Quick Play to use different weight categories. Would help with a part of the issues with groups dropping in the solo queue.

[C337Skymaster]

sycocys, on 15 April 2023 - 09:09 PM, said:

Well its a pvp online Mechwarrior (not Battletech) game that equally matches clan vs is and they should have balanced the tech out from the start.

It's actually more of a problem that the tabletop enthusiasts can't concede that this is not a table top iteration - but also pretty interesting that the same tabletop "canon" only types fight tooth and nail that they keep their dual guass and ppc setups which are 100% not functional in canon. 1 guass and a couple medium lasers wouldn't even work without basically restarting your targeting system and completely de-syncing your fire.

I bet canon has some rules for running hot (especially in override) and how that would cook your cooling capacity and all of your computer systems. "Remember to override"

How about free strikes that don't require a piece of equipment to lob out your smoke marker?

"Skills" for your mech that have zero compensation for making your weapons shoot further, pack more ammo, recycle faster, more amor/structure that magically appears for no tonnage cost, speed boosts, mystic anti-targeting computer buffs?

Bet all of that slide right into the tabletop game smooth as butter.

I'm right there with you on most of that. It's been getting crazier and crazier as the years have gone on. This game STARTED by trying to faithfully emulate all of the TT mechanics, and one by one, they all got shouted down by people who didn't appreciate their history, or abandoned by PGI for some glitch or other, rather than fixed to work properly (looking at you, knockdowns, and arm convergence).

The thing people keep dismissing, that should be front-and-center, is that these are all the SAME GAME, just displayed from different perspectives, and with different input controls. A game played on TT, then replayed in HBS BT, and then replayed in MWO, should all start the exact same, and play out relatively similarly. Arguments to the contrary are betrayals of the rich history, lore, and backstory to the game, and a corruption of this variation for their own nefarious ends.

The only PPC/Gauss combos I play are the ones that came that way (MAD-4L or MAD-5S or MAD-6S, etc). If you see me in a build that doesn't match your targeting computer, that's a limitation of PGI's targeting computer, and I'm simply using what I have available to recreate another factory build, or factory field upgrade kit, missing Omnimech configurations, etc. The only place I ever deviate from this is in Solaris, where I held to it for as long as I could, until the builds got so focused that anything stock can't remotely compete, because aiming in this game is too pinpoint, and weapon reload times are too fast, and DPS is elevated WAY too high (and we wonder why TTK is so low, when AC/2's deal 14 times the damage they were EVER meant to).

Cool Shots, in particular, are supposed to be Coolant Pods. They're literally a thing with crit slots and tonnage. The Hero Hellspawn is even supposed to mount three of them, but PGI replaced them with Heat Sinks rather than change their consumable system.

TAG lasers are supposed to be your artillery designators. They spot targets for guidance-equipped Arrow IV Artillery missiles, which could have been a weapon equipped by 'mechs. The "Long Toms" that PGI implemented for Faction Play are more accurately Davey Crocketts. Real Long Toms behave more like our current artillery strikes (though for 10 shells, that means there's a battery of 10 long toms off the field, somewhere).

Ammo and Armor should be consumable, at the very least. That's the tradeoff with ammo based weapons being harder hitting for less heat: they consume ammo. That's also the difference with all the fancy ammo: it works WAY better, but it's MUCH more expensive (some of the best LRMs are 3x the price of standard versions).

Heat penalties should TOTALLY be a thing in MWO. For starters, if you get just a little bit over your heat capacity, your movement speed is reduced. Thereafter, your weapon accuracy is reduced (but that's just your reduced torso movement, so that all folds into the same mechanic). After enough heat buildup, your 'mech tries to shut down, and you have a chance to override (this would be the time interval between being told, and the 'mech actually shutting down). As the heat gets higher, that interval gets shorter (increased difficulty to override) and once you hit the maximum heat threshold (30 pts over the capacity of your heat sinks), it's an automatic shutdown with no chance to override. This cycle repeats every time you pass these heat marks. None of this "turn it on and leave it on" crap. Also, as you go up through the heat scale, you go through increasing chances of an ammo explosion. You actually do NOT take any structure damage, but the fact that you can't move means you're much easier to shoot.

I've been advocating for those heat penalties in MWO for awhile, as they would curb peek-and-poke laservomit. If you step out, run your heat up to 90%, and then can't move to get back to cover, that would certainly emphasize the importance of heat management.

It also bums me out that we don't have realistic recoil in this game. MechWarrior 3 did that one the best. Even an arm-mounted AC/10 turned your entire torso to the side when you fired, and you had to reacquire your target for your next shot. Dual Heavy Gauss should run the risk of knocking you back on your *** unless you're standing perfectly still, and preferably crouching, bracing against the recoil. That's really something only the Fafnir ever managed, and should be a unique capability of that 'mech.

And Clans should never have been mixed with Inner Sphere. You should always have had a separate bucket of Clans, limited to 10 players (or maybe 5, given their performance right at launch) against 12 Inner Sphere. One or two Stars against three Lances. MatchMaking would be whatever two buckets filled up first: IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan, or IS vs Clan. That way, if everyone's playing one or the other tech class, you don't have to wait for the other side to fill up (like you currently do with Faction). If there's multiple same-type teams, they just drop against each other and have at it.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 16 April 2023 - 06:03 AM.

[Asterpais]

Agian you are changing a map based on people who whine about a game mechanic. Thirteen of these Platforms? Seems excessive. Knock that down to 5.

[Reno Blade]

Matt Newman, on 14 April 2023 - 06:40 PM, said:

FYI "drop decks" in quickplay may only mean Respawning 4 times in the same mech.
Or it may mean bringing in 4 mechs and only choosing one.
or it may be like Faction play.
We are not sure exactly how it will be implemented at this time as it would be "mode" dependent and modes are voted on.

We will do our best to keep you informed.

Quick Play & Drop Decks
For me, I want more fight for the same time, so 4x respawn with same 15minutes would work in general, i think...
The problem could be, if if there is a cheesy way to just kamikaze into victory, or if it will be too much walking after losing your first mech, it won't be much of a gain.

Let's do a playtest week/weekend that just does that and we can see how to tune.

In general i would say that QP could have some adjustments for each "Tier".
Have matches for Tier5+4 as 8vs8, while the Matchmaker decides for Tier 3-2 if it's 8s or 12s, and the Tier1 always do 12vs12.
Then I would also think of separate Tier for Solo play and group play and faction play and solaris/events.
You could even go as far as putting a 5% damage reduction for each Tier below Tier1 (e.g. Tier5 has 20% reduced dmg taken) to balance out new players.
Or even go as far as giving unskilled mechs (including trials) another 5% on top.


Faction Warfare
I think most of the biggest factor that prevents pugs from playing it, is the competive/meta and planning aspect of the Drop Deck.
You always have to get your "best" meta to be successful, and that's not always the fun that people search in the game. Therefor many play QP only.

In general for the FW meta game, i would like to see some end-of-game statistics that provide faction victory points for the top 5 contributing factions (or faction by mech chassis) to influence the inner sphere map for both, QP and FP game modes.

e.g. in the last QP match, the winning top 5 players had 3 Steiner and 2 Clan Wolf iconic mechs, so they gain +3 and +2 to faction victory on the battles on the IS map.
Faction Warfare matches would have larger impact and you already have the side to choose (you could still use the top5 for additional points)

Ofc, this would need to have around 5-10 battlefields (random border planets) and after some time, these lead to one side winning, even if it's combination of FW and QP points.


Game Modes
Some changes might be needed, if all our games have respawn.
e.g. be able to place a Union Dropship at the first spawn (while respawns have the Leopards), would allow to have less spawn camping, or even additional objective to defend or destroy/disarm the dropship (and even allow retreat to prevent dropship destruction, after it's disarmed).

Solaris main issue was the divisions, waiting time and single match.
It would have been so easy to fix, if you had best-of-3 (or 5) and just difficulty-to-honor scaling multipliers.
Heck, it could have been re-used for Clan Trials with this honor scaling.


Legendaries / Battlepass
I understand that it's a bit of cosmetics, MC, premium time and such, but for a long-time player that has so many mechs, this looks more like something for new joiners.

I like the idea of the Scattershot quite a lot, as it feels like you gain some immense bonus (to cd) by sacrificing something else (spread).
You could even tie that into the battlepass by increasing both % by 1 more. (e.g. if you have 20 levels, now the scattershots cd is going from 30% up to 50%)
That would be awesome (and hopefully with the sacrificial quirk, it wont be P2W).

I was actually hoping to have this trade-offs in the skill tree, but we only have it by not having enough points to push all stats to max (which we still can do 5 of 8 most of the time).

[Curccu]

Ruth Bader Ginsburg, on 15 April 2023 - 01:17 PM, said:

Imagine if Tesla shipped you a car with an extra hundred horsepower and after you drove it for a weekend, they took it back?

Imagine that cost of one tesla is probably higher than MWOs Yearly employee budget. Well maybe not quite but pretty close.

C337Skymaster, on 15 April 2023 - 02:51 PM, said:

Really? First CASE, now Active Probe. Are you TRYING to make the Inner Sphere into Clans? When will the heresy end?!

This thing is bad how? Except it hurts some strict BT fanatics.

C337Skymaster, on 15 April 2023 - 06:31 PM, said:

Secondly, if you keep turning half-ton equipment into whole-ton equipment (CASE: 0.5 > 0.0, now BAP: 1.5 > 1.0), how am I supposed to use up random half-tons of leftover weight?

Ammo.

[Curccu]

An6ryMan69, on 15 April 2023 - 06:12 PM, said:

The SNPPC Vulcan, for example, is the best Vulcan, but its also the only one I ever see around - the real question is what's it going to take to have players use the others, and I don't think nerfing the best one is the answer.

vt-5m and vl-5t are both excellent mechs, I and many other have played those a lot with great success.

[Tarl Cabot]

KursedVixen, on 14 April 2023 - 05:33 PM, said:

IS Beagle Active Probe:

• Equipment slots is reduced to 1 (from 2)
  
• Equipment weight is reduced to 1 ton (from 1.5 tons)

Comment:So why do we have clan mechs again???

Why do you constantly make clan mechs/tech obsolete???

Explain to me how this helps both sides??
idivudally it's not bad but combining both is.

How do you call this balance...

Let's just give IS clan tech it'll acheive the same result.

XL equipped mechs still die w/1st destroyed ST vs Clan XL, and most Clan equipment take up fewer slots and weight less.

Now, I am all for PGI doing an overhaul on the XL/cXL/LFE, each having similar properties, including not instantly dying with the lost of 1st ST. XL would have the most speed reduction and higher heat spike/penalty, cXL would be the middle of the pack with LFE having the lower penalties (it already has the lowest weight savings). And by putting cXL in the middle of the pack, it would also reduce the heatspikes,w/ST loss while also increasing its revised speed.

PGI is utilizing only a portion of the engine crit rules and heatscale. Add that for any players running an IS trial mech or purchasing trial/champion/etc IS mechs w/isXL, even with the heat bar sitting at 0% isXL is instant death w/loss of a ST, whereas for cXL and the couple of mechs w/LFE it isn't. And it would make IS Omnimechs viable instead of players targeting a ST instead of CT/cockpit or both ST/legs to kill said mech. (CT/cockpit/both legs still needed for STD too ).

• isXL 40% Engine loss heat capacity / x% loss heat dissipation / 25% movement
  
• cXL 25-30% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 20% movement
  
• LFE 15-20% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 15% movement

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 April 2023 - 10:59 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Tarl Cabot, on 16 April 2023 - 10:58 AM, said:

XL equipped mechs still die w/1st destroyed ST vs Clan XL, and most Clan equipment take up fewer slots and weight less.

Now, I am all for PGI doing an overhaul on the XL/cXL/LFE, each having similar properties, including not instantly dying with the lost of 1st ST. XL would have the most speed reduction and higher heat spike/penalty, cXL would be the middle of the pack with LFE having the lower penalties (it already has the lowest weight savings). And by putting cXL in the middle of the pack, it would also reduce the heatspikes,w/ST loss while also increasing its revised speed.

PGI is utilizing only a portion of the engine crit rules and heatscale. Add that for any players running an IS trial mech or purchasing trial/champion/etc IS mechs w/isXL, even with the heat bar sitting at 0% isXL is instant death w/loss of a ST, whereas for cXL and the couple of mechs w/LFE it isn't. And it would make IS Omnimechs viable instead of players targeting a ST instead of CT/cockpit or both ST/legs to kill said mech. (CT/cockpit/both legs still needed for STD too ).

• isXL 40% Engine loss heat capacity / x% loss heat dissipation / 25% movement
  
• cXL 25-30% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 20% movement
  
• LFE 15-20% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 15% movement

Ooor, we could bring back delayed weapon convergence, and not make every weapon always hit exactly the same point on a 'mech no matter what, with the smallest possible amount of time actually spent looking at the target, because "gotta keep twisting".

If we make it harder to carve up a 'mech like a thanksgiving turkey, then maybe we don't need as many armor quirks, and maybe we don't have such a disparity between IS and Clan XL engines.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 16 April 2023 - 12:41 PM.