20 replies to this topic

[BLACKR0SE]

Can it be done better?

I find this build very effective.

[Ekson Valdez]

This thread was moved to Medium Mech Builds

[epikt]

I know this is an "old" thread, but Ekson's necro is the occasion:

TAMTAMBABY, on 19 April 2023 - 08:30 PM, said:

Can it be done better?

It can be done better, and maybe you already realized that by yourself.
Actually, I find it quite bad, it goes all around the place with 3 different weapons: LPPC, MPLas and ERMLas. Weird. Especially the LPPCs (the weapon is good enough on light mechs, but on mediums it's quite weak imho): if you're going the PPC route, better do it all the way and mount 5 or 6 of them - or you're better do the build on a quirked PPC mech like the Shadowhawk-2K.

By the way the Hunchback is designed (hardpoints and quirks), the mech is a no-brainer, there's basically 2 builds of its unique flavor : 9 ERMLas if you want range or 9 MPLas if you want high alpha and short burn-time.

[BLACKR0SE]

epikt, on 08 May 2023 - 11:17 PM, said:

I know this is an "old" thread, but Ekson's necro is the occasion:


It can be done better, and maybe you already realized that by yourself.
Actually, I find it quite bad, it goes all around the place with 3 different weapons: LPPC, MPLas and ERMLas. Weird. Especially the LPPCs (the weapon is good enough on light mechs, but on mediums it's quite weak imho): if you're going the PPC route, better do it all the way and mount 5 or 6 of them - or you're better do the build on a quirked PPC mech like the Shadowhawk-2K.

By the way the Hunchback is designed (hardpoints and quirks), the mech is a no-brainer, there's basically 2 builds of its unique flavor : 9 ERMLas if you want range or 9 MPLas if you want high alpha and short burn-time.

My goal is to group the weapons like 1 or 2 fists and deliver powerful strikes quickly. I achieved good results for a while, but I found it inadequate in Tier 3 matches. It's still standing, but I haven't found a suitable build yet.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 08 May 2023 - 11:39 PM.

[BLACKR0SE]

Both builds appear weak.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 08 May 2023 - 11:41 PM.

[epikt]

TAMTAMBABY, on 08 May 2023 - 11:41 PM, said:

Both builds appear weak.

You mean the two builds I posted? You need to work on your mech builder sense my dear friend ^^
They have similar to higher alpha than yours, similar cooling (and for the one with less cooling, a much better damage/heat ratio), better survivability (LFE engines) and most important they have the great advantage of using a coherent set of weapons (and then easy to use).

I personally use the one with pulse lasers, it's an armor cutter. You poke, shoot, twist to protect your hunch and repeat. It's a hit-and-run mech, you take advantage of your high burst damage, then you retreat to cool off. It's very precise, you hit the component you want thanks to the short burn-time and lasers being hitscan. It's especially good at picking off weakened components.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

TAMTAMBABY, on 08 May 2023 - 11:41 PM, said:

Both builds appear weak.

Have you tried them?
Why does it often seem you think you know everything about this game? Translation issue?

[BLACKR0SE]

epikt, on 09 May 2023 - 01:33 AM, said:

You mean the two builds I posted? You need to work on your mech builder sense my dear friend ^^
They have similar to higher alpha than yours, similar cooling (and for the one with less cooling, a much better damage/heat ratio), better survivability (LFE engines) and most important they have the great advantage of using a coherent set of weapons (and then easy to use).

I personally use the one with pulse lasers, it's an armor cutter. You poke, shoot, twist to protect your hunch and repeat. It's a hit-and-run mech, you take advantage of your high burst damage, then you retreat to cool off. It's very precise, you hit the component you want thanks to the short burn-time and lasers being hitscan. It's especially good at picking off weakened components.

Aidan Crenshaw, on 09 May 2023 - 02:11 AM, said:

Have you tried them?
Why does it often seem you think you know everything about this game? Translation issue?

Yes, I'm referring to the builds you mentioned. I tried both of them, and I wasn't satisfied with either. The MP build requires me to engage at close range, which is not ideal for me. The EML build has a low damage output, and it also requires prolonged targeting.My hit-and-run strategy. The LP build looks appealing, but it's too heavy as well.

Maybe I can change the number or type of PPCs.

[epikt]

TAMTAMBABY, on 09 May 2023 - 05:09 AM, said:

The MP build requires me to engage at close range, which is not ideal for me.

Getting close is a skill on its own, you have to practice it. On most maps, given the amount of cover, it's not that difficult if you're patient enough.

Quote

The EML build has a low damage output, and it also requires prolonged targeting.

Do you realize your own build is half ERMLas and require the same burn-time?
And not to be petty, but light PPCs don't have the highest damage output either. Especially if we account for their tonnage: 5.5 dmg for 3 tons is ridiculous compared to 5 dmg for 1 ton for the ERMLas, and despite the high rate of fire (that requires a "prolonged targeting" to be used fully) 1.8 dps for 3 tons is still less optimal than 1.1 for 1 ton. Not to mention some smaller mechs (Katana Kat, Jenner-K, Phoenix Hawk-1B) have specific quirks that makes for much better LPPC platforms.

Anyway, I won't be annoying, let's say you want 3 LPPCs and lasers, at least do it right and ditch those pulse lasers! That's what I mean when I say your build is going all over the place. Here is a proposition. But remember 2/3 of your damage output is still ERMLas!

Quote

The LP build looks appealing

It's a possibility, LPLas+ERMLas works well together. For example, this build.
Or maybe using standard LLas, like here.

Quote

Maybe I can change the number or type of PPCs.

The problem is the Hunchback is not made for that and will be inferior to other chassis.
Want 6 LPPCs? The Sparky got you covered, faster and with JJ.
Want double heavy PPC? or triple PPC? The SHadow Hawk-2K is your mech (2 HPPCs ; 3 PPCs), again faster, with JJs, with better quirks and better hitbox.

[BLACKR0SE]

epikt, on 09 May 2023 - 06:21 AM, said:

Getting close is a skill on its own, you have to practice it. On most maps, given the amount of cover, it's not that difficult if you're patient enough.


Do you realize your own build is half ERMLas and require the same burn-time?
And not to be petty, but light PPCs don't have the highest damage output either. Especially if we account for their tonnage: 5.5 dmg for 3 tons is ridiculous compared to 5 dmg for 1 ton for the ERMLas, and despite the high rate of fire (that requires a "prolonged targeting" to be used fully) 1.8 dps for 3 tons is still less optimal than 1.1 for 1 ton. Not to mention some smaller mechs (Katana Kat, Jenner-K, Phoenix Hawk-1B) have specific quirks that makes for much better LPPC platforms.

Anyway, I won't be annoying, let's say you want 3 LPPCs and lasers, at least do it right and ditch those pulse lasers! That's what I mean when I say your build is going all over the place. Here is a proposition. But remember 2/3 of your damage output is still ERMLas!



It's a possibility, LPLas+ERMLas works well together. For example, this build.
Or maybe using standard LLas, like here.



The problem is the Hunchback is not made for that and will be inferior to other chassis.
Want 6 LPPCs? The Sparky got you covered, faster and with JJ.
Want double heavy PPC? or triple PPC? The SHadow Hawk-2K is your mech (2 HPPCs ; 3 PPCs), again faster, with JJs, with better quirks and better hitbox.

https://mwo.nav-alph...111618f4_HBK-4P

I will be designing a similar structure, but I think the cooling systems might be insufficient. I need to improve them a bit. Additionally, I already have the machines you mentioned and the structures you specified. My goal is to make the most of this machine. I want all of my machines to be functional. I don't want any idle machines. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

[w0qj]

I prefer this HBK-4P with LPL + 6xERML, LE275 engine, goes at 89kph
https://mwo.nav-alph...6816384_HBK-4PP

But that's just me...

[BLACKR0SE]

I think this is enough.

[epikt]

Congrats!
Glad you found something that works for you (though I'm worried about your leg armor...)

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Funny, your current build is almost identical in DPS and Alpha with way less survivability than the 9 ERMLas that was proposed earlier...

[CFC Conky]

Ooof, that's a lot of LPLs combined with your ERMLs, good firepower but too squishy in my opinion. It looks like something DATA would build since he's really focused on offence - not necessarily a bad thing mind you.

I run a number of medium mechs with 3xLPLs and prefer mobility and more armour over filing every weapon slot.

If I was going to run a Hunchie-4P with 3xLPL I'd build it like this:

https://mwo.nav-alph...c8693414_HBK-4P

Only 33 alpha (though 3xLPL is nothing to sneeze at), but fast enough to dodge/reposition, and by maxing out laser duration you'll get good pinpoint damage output.

You can play with the engine size if you want more heat sinks or a TC.

That said, I usually run it with 8xMLs or ERMLs

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 11 May 2023 - 10:12 AM.

[epikt]

Quote

I run a number of medium mechs with 3xLPLs and prefer mobility and more armour over filing every weapon slot.

But the main perk of the HBK-4P is exactly the number of hardpoints and the HSL quirk allowing to use them all. Using only 3 hardpoints on this mech feels like a waste.

(though I understand the limitation "new" players have, not owning lots of mechs and wanting to test different combinations on the mechs they have)

Quote

by maxing out laser duration you'll get good pinpoint damage output

If you want to max laser duration, the best option is afaik the Kintaro-20 with a whopping -40% quirk on pulse lasers duration - it's almost an autocannon! Sure, the hardpoints placement isn't as good as the Hunchie's, but it's much more durable, even with an XL engine.

Edited by epikt, 11 May 2023 - 10:41 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

MADCAT is not bad.



But I can do better..

[Void Angel]

The biggest problem with all of these builds is that they are in a Hunchback. I hate to say it, because the Hunchback has a special place in my heart, but once you break Tier 2, people will simply blast your hunch, and target you preferentially. They know that: 1) your hunch has most or all of your guns in it, and 2) that you will do a lot of damage to them if they just leave you alone to fire. I mean, check out the 4G's AC/20 quirks...

Because of this, while I had fun playing my hunchbacks (particularly the 4G) up through Tier 3, in Tier 2 they just... stopped working. Sure, I had good matches in them, but their overall performance across matches just dropped.

Hunchbacks each have a clearly differentiated role; as someone else pointed out before me, outside that role, there is some other Medium that just clearly does it better - and does it without the Hunchback's debilitating drawback: the eponymous hunch.

[epikt]

Void Angel, on 11 May 2023 - 06:09 PM, said:

I hate to say it, because the Hunchback has a special place in my heart, but once you break Tier 2, people will simply blast your hunch, and target you preferentially.

I'm T1 and still drop in Hunchies from time to time. My favorites are the -4P (9 MPLas), -4G (AC/20 + 3 MLas) and -4SP (2 ASRM6 + 5 MPLas).
It's true the hunch is a bullet magnet, you really need to be extra careful at positioning - if you allow a red on your right flank, you're basically done.

[BLACKR0SE]

Sometimes, people want to be different.