67 replies to this topic

[evil kerensky]

why are cauldron members allowed to compete in tournaments? seems like a conflict of interest to me.

and before you say it, the arguement that the cash prizes arent big enough to worry about this made sense, up until i realized that the guy behind the most questionable changes is italian, and the cash prizes for mwo can literally buy an antire countryside village in that country.

it just doesnt seem right to me, and kinda explains why jgx has remained so dominant in comp.

it strikes me as the quivelant of letting tom brady decide the league rules on how much a football needs to be inflated, just because he won a few superbowls.

[Bulletsponge0]

evil kerensky, on 06 May 2023 - 03:56 PM, said:

why are cauldron members allowed to compete in tournaments? seems like a conflict of interest to me.

and before you say it, the arguement that the cash prizes arent big enough to worry about this made sense, up until i realized that the guy behind the most questionable changes is italian, and the cash prizes for mwo can literally buy an antire countryside village in that country.

it just doesnt seem right to me, and kinda explains why jgx has remained so dominant in comp.

it strikes me as the quivelant of letting tom brady decide the league rules on how much a football needs to be inflated, just because he won a few superbowls.

I bet few non-American players will understand that reference

[Heavy Money]

Reposting from the other thread:

Heavy Money, on 06 May 2023 - 05:00 PM, said:

The people in the Cauldron were winning the tournaments before they started having balance input. I've seen this idea put forth that they are rigging the balance so they can win. But they were already winning. Its not like there was some other top team that used to win, but then the Cauldron members came in and stole their spot by sabotaging their mechs or something.

Its a ridiculous idea that they could. Every comp season consists of a phase exploring the best/most meta mechs and decks to use. The meta isn't that complicated. Even if a last minute patch changed something, it would barely matter as everyone can just adjust what they run for a given role. The game isn't that complicated. If you'd been practicing playing phoenix hawks and then suddenly the cauldron makes a change that buffs the vulcan to be slightly better in the same role, then you just switch to the vulcan.

For there to be a conflict of interest, there would need to be a clear advantage they can gain. The worst they could hypothetically do is maybe make other teams swap a few mechs, which would be irrelevant. I can't think of any last balance changes that have really altered Comp strat at the last minute.

The Cauldron are largely people who are the most knowledgeable about Comp. They have certainly used their powers to make it more interesting than it used to be! And since we get frequent changes, every Season isn't the same meta.

Also note that if the Cauldron were not able to participate, that'd basically end the entire Comp scene as they are also the people who run a lot of it. Even if they just got directly paid the prize money, it'd be pretty irrelevant compared to the time they put in organizing everything.

Edited by Heavy Money, 06 May 2023 - 05:23 PM.

[Therax]

There is a potential conflict of interest with having Cauldron members play on top contender Worlds teams while at the same time having a high amount of input on patches that are being released immediately leading up to and during the competition.

The advantage is clear; Cauldron members have insider information about the changes from upcoming patches before that same patch information is made publicly available. A competitive team that has Cauldron members on it potentially has multiple weeks to practice and prepare for upcoming meta changes created by weapon or quirk changes.

At the same time the members of the Cauldron are unpaid volunteers, and if they were barred from participating in the premier competitive event of the year most members would likely either resign from the Cauldron or significantly reduce their time spent working on or playing the game, both of which would harm the effectiveness of the Cauldron. The player community as a whole benefits from the work performed by the Cauldron, so if a competitive advantage is the cost of that work it is probably well worth it.

[PocketYoda]

Lockheed_, on 06 May 2023 - 09:06 PM, said:

If you hang out one the Cauldron, or Comp discord for example you get a lot of information about upcoming changes in advance anyway. Not much competitive advantage to be gained. It's kinda public.

The changes get done either way, there is no choice.. what the cauldron deems changed gets changed no matter what other customers say.. Very bias.

Weapon systems are way worse now. Lights are by far the most dangerous mechs now. Sniper meta is ridiculous.

Edited by PocketYoda, 06 May 2023 - 09:46 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

PocketYoda, on 06 May 2023 - 09:44 PM, said:

The changes get done either way, there is no choice.. what the cauldron deems changed gets changed no matter what other customers say.. Very bias.

Weapon systems are way worse now. Lights are by far the most dangerous mechs now. Sniper meta is ridiculous.

Jup, too bad they seem to be laser vomit and sniper fetishists obviously /ZZzzzZzzzZZZzzzz

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

I gotta ask:

is this a "we've got a full weekend's time and I wanna breathe a little bit of life into this forum by trolling"-thread

or are you serious about this?
..

[Curccu]

evil kerensky, on 06 May 2023 - 03:56 PM, said:

it just doesnt seem right to me, and kinda explains why jgx has remained so dominant in comp.

Most of the great players have quit so...
You can check EMP/EON roosters from Jarl's

Bulletsponge0, on 06 May 2023 - 05:15 PM, said:

I bet few non-American players will understand that reference

Was that thing about handeggball sports?

[TheCaptainJZ]

It could be a potential conflict of interest, but ultimately PGI still has to approve every change that gets added to the game. There were some instances where a Caldron idea did not get implemented because PGI did not approve it, though I don't think weapon or mech balances have been denied. And even if they mold the meta to an extent, there's nothing that clearly seems to tilt balance in their favor since everyone has equal access to everything and there are an array of viable options and counters.

[An6ryMan69]

So, because some people are hyper-involved in the game and go out of there way to contribute to making the game better and keeping it current (and as a result often open themselves up to endless complaints), they shouldn't be allowed full access like everybody else?

How is this reasonable?

Edited by An6ryMan69, 08 May 2023 - 01:01 PM.

[Ihlrath]

Look I'm the last person that's going to defend the Cauldron on just about anything but any changes made people are going to know about. It's not like they're putting in stealth nerfs in the middle of a tournament or whatever.

Even I will begrudgingly admit they're good players and have done some good, especially with the chassis rebalance. Its nice that a Timerwolf feels like a Timberwolf rather than a bathtub on roller skates. I don't think they'd have an advantage on anything as they wouldn't be able to implement any changes before everyone else so.....

[D A T A]

evil kerensky, on 06 May 2023 - 03:56 PM, said:

why are cauldron members allowed to compete in tournaments? seems like a conflict of interest to me.

and before you say it, the arguement that the cash prizes arent big enough to worry about this made sense, up until i realized that the guy behind the most questionable changes is italian, and the cash prizes for mwo can literally buy an antire countryside village in that country.

it just doesnt seem right to me, and kinda explains why jgx has remained so dominant in comp.

it strikes me as the quivelant of letting tom brady decide the league rules on how much a football needs to be inflated, just because he won a few superbowls.

I rule the cauldron so much that i rage quit the game almost because of how they address the game balance...and I say "they" because JGx is not the majority of the Cauldron, and all the JGx pilots in there except 1 almost always vote the opposite of what i do...
On top of that, I built an entire YT channel just by talking against the balance choices of the cauldron, because i find myself against most of the decisions that are taken in there, and my vote results in the minority for the most part.

These accusations are pathetic, mean and vile.

Ffs i don't even have the strength to publish on YT anymore since more than a month for how much i hate what the game balance has turned into...I barely have the will to continue playing the game.

Edited by D A T A, 12 May 2023 - 05:18 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

D A T A, on 12 May 2023 - 05:13 AM, said:

I rule the cauldron so much that i rage quit the game almost because of how they address the game balance...and I say "they" because JGx is not the majority of the Cauldron, and all the JGx pilots in there except 1 almost always vote the opposite of what i do...
On top of that, I built an entire YT channel just by talking against the balance choices of the cauldron, because i find myself against most of the decisions that are taken in there, and my vote results in the minority for the most part.

These accusations are pathetic, mean and vile.

Ffs i don't even have the strength to publish on YT anymore since more than a month for how much i hate what the game balance has turned into...I barely have the will to continue playing the game.

Keep making YT videos, Data.
Even if we can't agree with all your opinions, I think we can all agree you have the sexiest voice in MWO.

[pbiggz]

This entire thread is built on a foundation of bizarro conspiracy.

There's a small but vocal chunk of you that would rather fabricate a story about how evil the cauldron is and how they are committed to making sure you will never be able to have fun or be good at the game, than ever actually learn to click heads slightly better.

Skill is a personal issue and the longer you nerds commit yourselves to externalizing it the longer you'll keep swimming around t4 and cursing light mechs. Im not even good at this game and I know that. Practice a little introspection instead of wasting all our time making up false narratives about the only guys who've actually bothered to look deeply at this game's balance in the last decade.

PS: this is not an endorsement of the cauldron. I would like to see them be a bit more ambitious with their changes. But god, some of you are insufferable.

Edited by pbiggz, 12 May 2023 - 06:16 AM.

[RockmachinE]

Just do away with the Cauldron. Its ridiculous.

Why should a select group of players have the ability to balance the game and fashion it in a way the they like? No one's asked me anything. Most players have 0 input into this.

The meta has been terrible since they've been at it.

[Heavy Money]

RockmachinE, on 13 May 2023 - 12:24 AM, said:

Just do away with the Cauldron. Its ridiculous.

Why should a select group of players have the ability to balance the game and fashion it in a way the they like? No one's asked me anything. Most players have 0 input into this.

The meta has been terrible since they've been at it.

Anyone who goes and gives them input has input. I'm not a member but I've made suggestions and proposals and basically gotten what I asked for (such as MAD II rework.)

The meta before them was UAC10, cERRPC, and ATM veagles. Everything has improved.

Edited by Heavy Money, 13 May 2023 - 01:47 AM.

[PocketYoda]

RockmachinE, on 13 May 2023 - 12:24 AM, said:

Just do away with the Cauldron. Its ridiculous.

Why should a select group of players have the ability to balance the game and fashion it in a way the they like? No one's asked me anything. Most players have 0 input into this.

The meta has been terrible since they've been at it.

Some balance is better than no balance. I wish personally they'd focus on mediums more, that class of mechs is getting left behind lately.. Even lights are better than mediums these days and that pretty bad.

[Meep Meep]

I floated the mg changes a while back and they were adopted. Not saying it was directly due to me but the changes I proposed more or less ended up in the live build so someone read them and agreed.

[pbiggz]

RockmachinE, on 13 May 2023 - 12:24 AM, said:

Just do away with the Cauldron. Its ridiculous.

Why should a select group of players have the ability to balance the game and fashion it in a way the they like? No one's asked me anything. Most players have 0 input into this.

The meta has been terrible since they've been at it.

Do you know who'd be doing balancing if it wasn't them?

Nobody.

You have a personal beef or you got sniped and you feel insecure about it so your policy now is that the game should simply be terminated because it isnt the way you think it should be.

[Weeny Machine]

pbiggz, on 14 May 2023 - 05:26 PM, said:

Do you know who'd be doing balancing if it wasn't them?

Nobody.

You have a personal beef or you got sniped and you feel insecure about it so your policy now is that the game should simply be terminated because it isnt the way you think it should be.

You know, you and he are right in some way.

You for pointing out that it is good there is someone who gives new impulses by doing balance passes.
But he also got somewhat a point because if you take a step back that the game leans too heavily towards the sniping gameplay added with some mid-range laser vomit. Hitscan weapons which shoot acros nearly the whole map... the other weapons have at least velocity which makes them somewhat balanced on huge huge ranges are just bollocks. And even if you spay, you can usually keep the beams on the three torsi.

Edit: on many maps, especially Tourmaline or HPG you can barely move when 4-5 snipers sit up on cliffs or walls because you wouldn't make it to the next cover without having taken massive damage. That is crap gameplay because it forces camping due to whack-a-mole and suffocates other playstyles.

I have had 2 matches...Tourmaline was a snipefest and no one even dared to enter the middle or go further than F5 or it felt like being in Studio 54 with all the beams. The other one was Grim Plexus...same crap. Snipers prevented most of the moving.
Where is the fun in that? If a game is literally shut down because you are hardly able to move...then I can download a silly free whack-a-mole app from the net and play that. Same gameplay - as soon as something shows itself I hammer it

pbiggz, on 14 May 2023 - 05:26 PM, said:

[...] the game should simply be terminated because it isnt the way you think it should be.

In a way something similar could be said about you and the sniper fans. You actually want only this kind of gameplay and are very offensive when someone says there should be other playstyles as well by claiming "they want only their playstyle". As I said above...sniping literally suffocates any other styles, depending on the matches and maps sometimes more sometimes less. But the point is: what you blame others for, is more applicable to you and other snipers. It is like "no, you won't take my op laz0rzs from mah!!11!"

Edited by Weeny Machine, 15 May 2023 - 06:17 AM.