317 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 12:00 PM, said:

Imagine that a car manufacturer sold you a car and you drove it for a week, then they take 100 horsepower away via over the air update. Would you be a spoiled-brat to ask for a refund?

Haha tesla is marketing something exactly like that. Pay a monthly fee to unlock extra performance out of the car by increasing the amount of power allowed to drive the wheels.

[MechWarrior8922442]

@check engine light You are being sold a mech that you will own forever to play in their videogame. Is "you don't actually own what we sell you" what PGI wants customers to know before they make a purchase?

@mee meep Tesla (or BMW) is marketing a positive upgrade for a monthly fee. That's different than selling their car at a promised 500 base horsepower and then dropping it to 400 because it was too good. You know the difference inherently, so there's no need for disingenuous argument here.


Interestingly, there is a precedence of companies losing lawsuits for this thing. Including videogame companies. I think War Thunder not long ago. Consumer protections do extend to digital product.

Edited by MechWarrior8922442, 21 May 2023 - 12:37 PM.

[BloodyDziq]

Nerfing SHD-S(LGD) right after release is a real D**K move. Never again will I buy a Legendary mech right after release.

[Tiy0s]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 12:31 PM, said:

Interestingly, there is a precedence of companies losing lawsuits for this thing. Including videogame companies. I think War Thunder not long ago. Consumer protections do extend to digital product.

Signed,
Yours truly,
A member of the Cauldron

Edited by Tiy0s, 21 May 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[Navid A1]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 12:31 PM, said:

@check engine light You are being sold a mech that you will own forever to play in their videogame. Is "you don't actually own what we sell you" what PGI wants customers to know before they make a purchase?

@mee meep Tesla (or BMW) is marketing a positive upgrade for a monthly fee. That's different than selling their car at a promised 500 base horsepower and then dropping it to 400 because it was too good. You know the difference inherently, so there's no need for disingenuous argument here.


Interestingly, there is a precedence of companies losing lawsuits for this thing. Including videogame companies. I think War Thunder not long ago. Consumer protections do extend to digital product.

What you bought:
A top performing shadowhawk with a unique quirk (no JJ shake), and with 4 gifted free slots in the arms that is usually occupied with Lower Arm and Hand Actuators

What you have:
A top performing shadowhawk with a unique quirk (no JJ shake), and with 4 gifted free slots in the arms that is usually occupied with Lower Arm and Hand Actuators



What's next? consumer protection for balance changes to hero mechs?

[CFC Conky]

When I first saw the Scattershot in-game I knew it was going to be adjusted so I’ll wait to see how the new version works before making a purchase decision. That said, going up against one wasn’t particularly terrifying to begin with imo.

Many new mechs have been nerfed after release so, it should not come as a surprise to anyone.

The post-release nerf that disappointed me the most was the velocity adjustment to the SNS-D, but it’s still a decent performer at my Tier (4-3).

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[MechWarrior8922442]

Navid A1, on 21 May 2023 - 01:21 PM, said:

What you bought:
A top performing shadowhawk with a unique quirk (no JJ shake), and with 4 gifted free slots in the arms that is usually occupied with Lower Arm and Hand Actuators

What you have:
A top performing shadowhawk with a unique quirk (no JJ shake), and with 4 gifted free slots in the arms that is usually occupied with Lower Arm and Hand Actuators



What's next? consumer protection for balance changes to hero mechs?

The way video game companies get around consumer protections for their in-game product is by selling premium currency and then selling the premium content with the currency. Since the premium currency is 1)worthless and 2)can be refunded out of thin air from the company, a court can hardly resolve an issue with the sale. However, when you sell something with real currency, a court can easily make a ruling to resolve the dispute. The example with War Thunder (I think... I get them and WoT mixed up) was specifically a class action suit regarding a tank that was sold for cash and nerfed immediately.

But laugh on. I hope PGI isn't relying on the cauldron for legal advice. The opportunity for balance was before promising specs, which I think was your guys' job in the first place.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 12:31 PM, said:

@check engine light You are being sold a mech that you will own forever to play in their videogame. Is "you don't actually own what we sell you" what PGI wants customers to know before they make a purchase?

@mee meep Tesla (or BMW) is marketing a positive upgrade for a monthly fee. That's different than selling their car at a promised 500 base horsepower and then dropping it to 400 because it was too good. You know the difference inherently, so there's no need for disingenuous argument here.


Interestingly, there is a precedence of companies losing lawsuits for this thing. Including videogame companies. I think War Thunder not long ago. Consumer protections do extend to digital product.

Auto companies have had to derate or limit performance on vehicles following safety issues being broached. Let me know how your lawsuit against rev limiters and 137mph speed caps goes.

[Navid A1]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

The way video game companies get around consumer protections for their in-game product is by selling premium currency and then selling the premium content with the currency. Since the premium currency is 1)worthless and 2)can be refunded out of thin air from the company, a court can hardly resolve an issue with the sale. However, when you sell something with real currency, a court can easily make a ruling to resolve the dispute. The example with War Thunder (I think... I get them and WoT mixed up) was specifically a class action suit regarding a tank that was sold for cash and nerfed immediately.

But laugh on. I hope PGI isn't relying on the cauldron for legal advice. The opportunity for balance was before promising specs, which I think was your guys' job in the first place.

You have all the promised specs.
No JJ shake
Free slots that no other shadowhawk has
More spread for faster rate of fire and velocity, more than any other shadowhawk.



Apart from that... our "job" (lol), is to maintain balance. And that's what we'll try to do. Scattershot will have to remain a top performing mech, that's part of the sales pitch. Without invalidating the entire medium weight class in the game.

The only reason we didn't adjust the mech 1 day after it came out is because patch cycle is monthly.
And no, we have no way of testing these mechs before anyone else.

And btw... we also have these mechs and play them... and yes. We nerf'd our own mechs.

If you are really upset by this. wait for a while before buying, there is no bonus for early purchase.

[MechWarrior8922442]

the check engine light, on 21 May 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

Auto companies have had to derate or limit performance on vehicles following safety issues being broached. Let me know how your lawsuit against rev limiters and 137mph speed caps goes.

Car companies don't get to detune cars after the sale. And if the advertisement doesn't match what they're sold at, then that's a consumer protection issue. Care companies have to deal with regulations before they market their product, not after. But we both know that you understand this inherently and you're just making another disingenuous argument. If your Honda dealer took 50hp off of your car because of something they hadn't considered before they sold it, you would be losing your mind.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 02:03 PM, said:

Car companies don't get to detune cars after the sale. And if the advertisement doesn't match what they're sold at, then that's a consumer protection issue. Care companies have to deal with regulations before they market their product, not after. But we both know that you understand this inherently and you're just making another disingenuous argument. If your Honda dealer took 50hp off of your car because of something they hadn't considered before they sold it, you would be losing your mind.

What are recalls for 500 Alex

Emissions controls too

Edited by the check engine light, 21 May 2023 - 02:09 PM.

[MechWarrior8922442]

the check engine light, on 21 May 2023 - 02:04 PM, said:

What are recalls for 500 Alex

What is "to fix a failure to deliver advertised performance."

[Mechwarrior2342356]

MechWarrior8922442, on 21 May 2023 - 02:08 PM, said:

What is "to fix a failure to deliver advertised performance."

You got what was advertised, quirks are changed constantly as balance demands. See NavidA1's post.

[BROARL]

thankyou whoever is putting time and effort into attempting to improve faction.

*it may happen that i may not like the changes but i appreciate you trying.

[MechWarrior8922442]

Navid A1, on 21 May 2023 - 02:02 PM, said:

You have all the promised specs.
No JJ shake
Free slots that no other shadowhawk has
More spread for faster rate of fire and velocity, more than any other shadowhawk.



Apart from that... our "job" (lol), is to maintain balance. And that's what we'll try to do. Scattershot will have to remain a top performing mech, that's part of the sales pitch. Without invalidating the entire medium weight class in the game.

The only reason we didn't adjust the mech 1 day after it came out is because patch cycle is monthly.
And no, we have no way of testing these mechs before anyone else.

And btw... we also have these mechs and play them... and yes. We nerf'd our own mechs.

If you are really upset by this. wait for a while before buying, there is no bonus for early purchase.

The complete specifications for the shadowhawk were placed in a screenshot advertising the sale. This stated clearly "lbx spread +25, lbx velocity +50...etc". This is a failure to deliver on the specifications you sold.

If the product is still good, then why isn't there the confidence to offer refunds?

A lot of people will be waiting a long while to make any more cash purchases. If that's reasonable to you, then we are actually on the same page about the most important thing.

the check engine light, on 21 May 2023 - 02:11 PM, said:

You got what was advertised, quirks are changed constantly as balance demands. See NavidA1's post.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

BROARL, on 21 May 2023 - 02:13 PM, said:

thankyou whoever is putting time and effort into attempting to improve faction.

*it may happen that i may not like the changes but i appreciate you trying.

They're demonstrating interest in tweaking it. That seems to already be SOMETHING more than we had. I have only second hand knowledge of genrush stuff, I tried FP once and got trucked predictably, but I would rather it be there and be getting some kind of attention.

[BLACKR0SE]

[BLACKR0SE]

Why are you feeding light mechs so much? I don't understand. If I wanted to play CS, I would just go and play it. I'm not looking for this much speed in this game. You're causing frustration among the majority of players.

[BLACKR0SE]

I don't like a system that devours 100-ton ATLAS with 20-ton machines.

[1DEWPOINT1]

Is gon get reel durty if you nerf my feckin mech