186 replies to this topic

[Ihlrath]

Look I think there's a fair argument that can be made that things are slanted just a tad too much toward long range with all the ERLL, ERPPC, Gauss, AC2 etc buffs that have been implemented. You can obviously see it when you're dropping. Anyone that says that it isn't the case is either color blind and cant see blue lazors or is purposely being dishonest because they enjoy that playstyle.

Now, that being said, does it make all other game play styles unusable? No, and again anyone that says this is either frustrated (which can be understandable when teams stand 800+ meters apart for 5 minutes plinking at each other) or they're not paying attention. Games almost always inevitably break down into closer range. Patience can be a hard thing to show when you're in game, trust me I'm often one to rush out like an idiot.... and then I die like an idiot. Showing patience pays dividends in the end.

I am not a long range sniper, I just can't. I'm getting old and my hands are shakier than a chihuahua after railing a line and chuffing redbull all night. Plus I find it boring. But I got friends that play that style and enjoy it and they do well with it. The Cauldron has done a decent job with making way more chassis viable and making more weapon systems viable as well. They deserve credit for that.

This does not, however, make them above criticism either. De-linking torso speed from engine rating was a very obvious 'We need to be able to track lights in our fatties' move and it made lights, already on the rim of poor performance, even worse. Then they nerf the MGs because lights were murdering assault laser boaters in the back. Both poor choices and to many, looked like a clear favortism move to a certain play style. They also have made anything that locks on basically useless and have made no moves to seriously address those issues because from everything you see and hear most of them hate lock on and consider it low skill.

Overall I think they've done a decent job and people shouldn't down them so much. But they do also need to listen and instead of shouting down any dissention from the peasants make good faith efforts to not favor one style so much.

[Heavy Money]

Ihlrath, on 23 May 2023 - 03:37 PM, said:

Look I think there's a fair argument that can be made that things are slanted just a tad too much toward long range with all the ERLL, ERPPC, Gauss, AC2 etc buffs that have been implemented. You can obviously see it when you're dropping. Anyone that says that it isn't the case is either color blind and cant see blue lazors or is purposely being dishonest because they enjoy that playstyle.

I don't see it when I'm dropping. Which buffs do you mean? Except for the original weapon changes the Cauldron did over 2 years ago, most of these have only been nerfed. Also, AC2 boats are pretty weak.

Ihlrath, on 23 May 2023 - 03:37 PM, said:

De-linking torso speed from engine rating was a very obvious 'We need to be able to track lights in our fatties' move and it made lights, already on the rim of poor performance, even worse. Then they nerf the MGs because lights were murdering assault laser boaters in the back. Both poor choices and to many, looked like a clear favortism move to a certain play style. They also have made anything that locks on basically useless and have made no moves to seriously address those issues because from everything you see and hear most of them hate lock on and consider it low skill.

That delinking was not done by the Cauldron, and happened long before they began making changes. Blame PGI for that one. The Cauldron attempted to undo some of it with their big mobility patch as it had made many assaults borderline unplayable. DWF, MAD II, Atlas, FNR, were all pretty worthless before they did that.

MGs got nerfed some yeah but they are still good. They are better now for mechs that can't boat them. Also SPL, LPPC, and SNPPC got buffed. There's a lot of really nice light/fast medium brawlers and skirmishers running around now that never existed before.

[Ihlrath]

Heavy Money, on 23 May 2023 - 04:03 PM, said:

I don't see it when I'm dropping. Which buffs do you mean? Except for the original weapon changes the Cauldron did over 2 years ago, most of these have only been nerfed. Also, AC2 boats are pretty weak.

Then I dunno where you're dropping at my man. Every match there's tons and tons of gauss, ERLL, and ERPPC builds all over the place. Tonight has been absolutely wretched when it comes to the long range spam.

[foamyesque]

Ihlrath, on 23 May 2023 - 04:58 PM, said:

Then I dunno where you're dropping at my man. Every match there's tons and tons of gauss, ERLL, and ERPPC builds all over the place. Tonight has been absolutely wretched when it comes to the long range spam.

According to Derek Scout, apparently the single most-dropped mech is a Dire Wolf C, and, while that's a very powerful CT omnipod in general, the huge majority of DWF-C configs are leveraging the ECM to shoot people at extreme range IME. So there's at least some statistical evidence in favour of 'long range feels everywhere'.

[Ihlrath]

*LE GASP*

Nuh uh!

[CFC Conky]

foamyesque, on 23 May 2023 - 05:02 PM, said:

According to Derek Scout, apparently the single most-dropped mech is a Dire Wolf C, and, while that's a very powerful CT omnipod in general, the huge majority of DWF-C configs are leveraging the ECM to shoot people at extreme range IME. So there's at least some statistical evidence in favour of 'long range feels everywhere'.

Dire Whales melt pretty quickly in a brawl so range is you friend, at least until you get pushed. Long-range is what they do for a living.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Heavy Money]

foamyesque, on 23 May 2023 - 05:02 PM, said:

According to Derek Scout, apparently the single most-dropped mech is a Dire Wolf C, and, while that's a very powerful CT omnipod in general, the huge majority of DWF-C configs are leveraging the ECM to shoot people at extreme range IME. So there's at least some statistical evidence in favour of 'long range feels everywhere'.

Was that data showing that it was top drops or top performance?

Its been given away for free twice and is part of a popular pack, so its no surprise they are everywhere. And there's no doubt it is really powerful. I think something needs to be done about it and the NTG with Gauss+ERLL. If people were going around saying that we're in a DWF-C meta I wouldn't be disagreeing with them.

My experience is that there's about 1-3 snipers per side in most matches. That's US West evenings.

Edited by Heavy Money, 23 May 2023 - 05:23 PM.

[RickySpanish]

I, for one, welcome our new Cauldron Overlords and their ceaseless efforts to make even the most hysterically stupid bracket builds playable by people like the OP... Only for them to whinge about it.

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 23 May 2023 - 05:21 PM, said:

Was that data showing that it was top drops or top performance?

Drop count -- performance for the DWF-C wasn't stated because the thread was about the HBK-IICs --, but you don't hit 2.3% drop count in a game with a thousand different variants if you don't perform very well consistently. I dunno where Scout was pulling his numbers for drops, W/Ls, etc from so I couldn't follow up on that myself, though.

[pbiggz]

If y'all cant even agree on what's op then you need to re-evaluate whether making these threads is reasonable (its not).

[Pixel Hunter]

Weeny Machine, on 23 May 2023 - 07:55 AM, said:

Yeah, please throw some more smoke grenades. It is ok. No worries, no one will curb this . I have come to accept that.

actually, a consumable Item of smoke Artillery/Smoke drop would be a really great way to help brawl builds get into position when they have to cross open areas...

Edited by Pixel Hunter, 23 May 2023 - 06:34 PM.

[Bassault]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 May 2023 - 07:06 AM, said:

What meta builds are those? Laser vomit? Gauss ER LL? SN PPC brawlers? MRMs? AC10s? UAC boating? RACs? SNPPC-AC20? LB2 or AC2 snipers? AC5/PPC builds? SRM brawlers? SRM-AC20/LB20? PPC pop tarts? Heavy Gauss builds? Light gauss/ERPPC? ATM Boats? LRM Boats? That pretty much covers the spread, so.. you want all of those nerfed?

AC10s suck, UAC boating sucks, RACs are unplayable, AC2 and LBX2 are unplayable outside of oceanic time, Heavy gauss is awful. The meta is speed, speed, speed, ECM laservomit, ERLL Gauss, and ppc poptarters. Everything else is actually dogshit and only works against bad players.

Edited by Bassault, 23 May 2023 - 07:20 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Bassault, on 23 May 2023 - 07:19 PM, said:

AC10s suck, UAC boating sucks, RACs are unplayable, AC2 and LBX2 are unplayable outside of oceanic time, Heavy gauss is awful. The meta is speed, speed, speed, ECM laservomit, ERLL Gauss, and ppc poptarters. Everything else is actually dogshit and only works against bad players.

AC10s and UACs are fantastic. Yeah RACs and AC2 boating isn't so great since they require face time.
Heavy Gauss is fine.

[Bassault]

Heavy Money, on 23 May 2023 - 07:32 PM, said:

AC10s and UACs are fantastic. Yeah RACs and AC2 boating isn't so great since they require face time.
Heavy Gauss is fine.

AC10s and UACs are dogshit. Insane amounts of tonnage required for the heavy weapons themselves and then ammo. Then you still need heatsinks, especially if you pair them with other things. By the time I fit enough for everything my mech is either undergunned or has like 40 leg armor. Low damage per shot, so they lose to laservomit, even when boated. They also lose to poptarters because of the velocity, by the time you spot the mech and fire, your whiffs the air and they're already in cover. In other situations, you just have no convergence and your weapons go wherever the **** they want, maybe 1 or 2 projectiles will hit a leg or an arm of the medium/light. They are also inconsistent vs lasers when a medium or light is in the open just running around, especially if they have jumpjets. Lasers do damage where I am aiming, always. Ballistics on the other hand are not reliable no matter how good you are, you will never be as accurate with ballistics as you are with lasers. Convergence issues will also curb your perfect aim in many instances. The final nail in the coffin is that the mechs that use these weapons are often big and slow, because you need so much tonnage. Big and slow mechs ******* suck and get farmed by poptarters and skirmishers, and now with ballistics equipped you don't even have the alpha to defend yourself against dedicated traders like laservomit 81kph clan mechs.

So they do less damage than the competition, are less consistent than the competition, require ammo, and are totally inadequate when dealing with skirmishers. They're only good for one thing: Farming idiots. You have a lot of DPS, so you can just farm people who decide to stand in the open for no reason. If I want to win against players who know what they're doing, or in tough situations, ballistics are a liability 9 times out of 10.

And heavy gauss? Biggest joke of a weapon. Extremely heavy and requires a standard engine. All your tonnage is gone and you can only run it on a slow-*** mech. Velocity kinda sucks, DPS is non existent. Range is awful. So you have to put all your eggs in one basket, the basket of being slow as **** and having to get close, which is an awful combination. You have little influence on the course of the match if you cannot engage with enemies favorably, and when you finally do fight, you can't dish out a good amount of DPS. Compare hgauss mechs to snub monsters and realize how outclassed they are.

Edited by Bassault, 23 May 2023 - 08:07 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Bassault, on 23 May 2023 - 07:59 PM, said:

AC10s and UACs are dogshit. Insane amounts of tonnage required for the heavy weapons themselves and then ammo. Then you still need heatsinks, especially if you pair them with other things. By the time I fit enough for everything my mech is either undergunned or has like 40 leg armor. Low damage per shot, so they lose to laservomit, even when boated. They also lose to poptarters because of the velocity, by the time you spot the mech and fire, your whiffs the air and they're already in cover. In other situations, you just have no convergence and your weapons go wherever the **** they want, maybe 1 or 2 projectiles will hit a leg or an arm of the medium/light. They are also inconsistent vs lasers when a medium or light is in the open just running around, especially if they have jumpjets. Lasers do damage where I am aiming, always. Ballistics on the other hand are not reliable no matter how good you are, you will never be as accurate with ballistics as you are with lasers. Convergence issues will also curb your perfect aim in many instances. The final nail in the coffin is that the mechs that use these weapons are often big and slow, because you need so much tonnage. Big and slow mechs ******* suck and get farmed by poptarters and skirmishers, and now with ballistics equipped you don't even have the alpha to defend yourself against dedicated traders like laservomit 81kph clan mechs.

So they do less damage than the competition, are less consistent than the competition, require ammo, and are totally inadequate when dealing with skirmishers. They're only good for one thing: Farming idiots. You have a lot of DPS, so you can just farm people who decide to stand in the open for no reason. If I want to win against players who know what they're doing, or in tough situations, ballistics are a liability 9 times out of 10.

And heavy gauss? Biggest joke of a weapon. Extremely heavy and requires a standard engine. All your tonnage is gone and you can only run it on a slow-*** mech. Velocity kinda sucks, DPS is non existent. Range is awful. So you have to put all your eggs in one basket, the basket of being slow as **** and having to get close, which is an awful combination. You have little influence on the course of the match if you cannot engage with enemies favorably, and when you finally do fight, you can't dish out a good amount of DPS. Compare hgauss mechs to snub monsters and realize how outclassed they are.

Wow I must just be a fantastic player to perform so well with them then

[Bassault]

Heavy Money, on 23 May 2023 - 08:14 PM, said:

Wow I must just be a fantastic player to perform so well with them then

No you're just fighting players who don't know what they're doing. And do you really perform "So well" with them? Are you doing better with them over laservomit mechs? I would find that hard to believe.

[Heavy Money]

Bassault, on 23 May 2023 - 08:15 PM, said:

No you're just fighting players who don't know what they're doing. And do you really perform "So well" with them? Are you doing better with them over laservomit mechs? I would find that hard to believe.

I guess me and all the other high tier players are just confused about what is effective
And yes I do. Laservom is great but so is dakka.

[Bassault]

Heavy Money, on 23 May 2023 - 08:22 PM, said:

I guess me and all the other high tier players are just confused about what is effective
And yes I do. Laservom is great but so is dakka.

Yes, actually. Or they play a dakka mech 3 times a month on oceanic time and go "WOW THIS IS REALLY GOOD."

Edited by Bassault, 23 May 2023 - 08:25 PM.

[Dogmeat1]

Bassault, on 23 May 2023 - 08:24 PM, said:

Yes, actually. Or they play a dakka mech 3 times a month on oceanic time and go "WOW THIS IS REALLY GOOD."

Dakka builds got stronger overall with the major overhaul in 2021 and is still one of the easiest ways for an assault to farm in QP.

Edited by Dogmeat1, 23 May 2023 - 08:52 PM.

[PocketYoda]

The Cauldron mean well i'm sure.. But they definitely have their own agendas these days on their mech passes.. Super op light mech quirks and mediocre everything else..

I had to laugh at that Heavy PPC Urbanmech and -75% on a one tiny missile Cataphract.. Really can they not think of more useless quirks to offset their op light ones..

Edited by PocketYoda, 23 May 2023 - 10:26 PM.