163 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

Weeny Machine, on 26 May 2023 - 11:30 PM, said:

If it was one of your 1xERPPC mechs, this wouldn't have been possible and I had taken damage before. So, you cannot speak of a 1-shot. Actually I have a reasonable amout of back armour, simply because lately quite a few shots register on my back despite they are from the side or even front. Weird times...

Well I could have critted the engine. Lots of wonderful rng to choose from. ;p

But yeah hit detection has been a bit off lately. Ppc in particular seem to pass though mechs at times and not the skinny torso mechs but stuff like a fafnir or corsair.

[Weeny Machine]

Meep Meep, on 27 May 2023 - 03:05 AM, said:

Well I could have critted the engine. Lots of wonderful rng to choose from. ;p

But yeah hit detection has been a bit off lately. Ppc in particular seem to pass though mechs at times and not the skinny torso mechs but stuff like a fafnir or corsair.

Thank you for saying that. Because I was wondering...I leveled that Street Cleaner with 2xSPPC and I saw really shots hit and do nothing on a relative regular basis

[epikt]

Meep Meep, on 27 May 2023 - 03:05 AM, said:

Well I could have critted the engine. Lots of wonderful rng to choose from. ;p

It's not tabletop, you don't die after 3 crits on the engine.
See this page for more details:

Quote

Internal items such as actuators, engines, life support, etc., have no impact on gameplay when their health is depleted through critical hits.

[Vellron2005]

Here's a few cold hard facts:

1) Since the Cauldron took over, the game has become heavily geared towards sniping.
2) Maps and meta have shifted towards sniping.
3) New maps are mostly sniper oriented.
4) New mechs, especially new Legendary mechs are made to be a sniper's wet dream.
5) The few maps that were LRM friendly have been ruined and turned into sniper maps.
6) Faction Play is still a cheater/comp player cesspool.
7) The balance is not good. And the continual rebalancing for rebalancing's sake is bad.

So basically.. Yeah, I agree with OP.. The Cauldron needs to get it's act together or withdraw.

Edited by Vellron2005, 28 May 2023 - 10:22 AM.

[foamyesque]

the check engine light, on 28 May 2023 - 11:17 AM, said:

I like how #5 tells me a lot about where you're coming from.

Those giant mushrooms on Coliseum annoy me on both an aesthetic and functional level. The map had plenty of cover from direct fire sniping before but was one of like two maps currently in rotation where LRMs could actually function worth a damn consistently, the other being Peaks (which is garbage). LRMs are actually a significant struggle to use solo these days, because it feels like they're being balanced on the theory that everyone using them has a NARC buddy and a team that'll meatshield for them.

Me, I'd nerf NARC duration, nerf radar dep, nerf target retention, upscale their velocity and give them a better plunging arc, and reduce their missile health.

The goal of all those changes would be missiles that can hit more often if not defended, don't fire into terrain for no reason as often, and are still stopped effectively by AMS. And you don't get eliminated from a match for a whole-*** minute because some rando in a Raven popped a backshot on you.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

the check engine light, on 28 May 2023 - 11:17 AM, said:

I like how #5 tells me a lot about where you're coming from.

also look at #6; tells you everything you need to know.

[Meep Meep]

I love me some lrm mech play especially an lrm100 bas but alas its been nerfed to near uselessness now unless you have a buddy to keep targets lit.

About the only mech left that can do it solo is this one and you play it right behind the push lobbing full alphas as soon as you get a lock. With full heat skills you can lob three before you push your heat bar over. Chain fire works great too and you have an almost 1200m range and good velocity but thats going to be completely reliant on your teams scouting.

cplt-c4

[foamyesque]

Meep Meep, on 28 May 2023 - 01:24 PM, said:

I love me some lrm mech play especially an lrm100 bas but alas its been nerfed to near uselessness now unless you have a buddy to keep targets lit.

About the only mech left that can do it solo is this one and you play it right behind the push lobbing full alphas as soon as you get a lock. With full heat skills you can lob three before you push your heat bar over. Chain fire works great too and you have an almost 1200m range and good velocity but thats going to be completely reliant on your teams scouting.

cplt-c4

See, I have my C4 kitted out for SRM + SNPPC brawl, at which it is pretty effective. I've been experimenting with various LRM fits on the Cat platform and the only one I've really found that I like so far is actually the C1:

https://mwo.nav-alph...dd3ecdf_CPLT-C1

You can also juggle things around a bit to run more sinks, since the ERMLs are pretty hot:

https://mwo.nav-alph...ec70711_CPLT-C1

For that C4 build, if you're really intending to punch LRM60 downrange consistently, I'd probably chop the ERMLs out for a BAP and a TAG TBH. The additional sensor range and ECM-punchthrough is pretty handy for getting your own locks and nobody's ever been scared of two lasers on a LRMboat.

[Meep Meep]

Oh I run right behind the brawlers shooting over their heads. Thats where an lrm boat should be. Not haring off into the wilderness to toss salvos at max range only to get swarmed by some lights. The er meds are just because and don't get used all that much since I'm primarily behind a mech when firing but they barely budge the heat bar anyways. Don't even need locks just point n shoot in most cases. As to a bap it has the built in +100 sensor range quirk which is right at what a bap gives you if you have max sensor nodes.

[foamyesque]

Meep Meep, on 28 May 2023 - 07:11 PM, said:

Oh I run right behind the brawlers shooting over their heads. Thats where an lrm boat should be. Not haring off into the wilderness to toss salvos at max range only to get swarmed by some lights. The er meds are just because and don't get used all that much since I'm primarily behind a mech when firing but they barely budge the heat bar anyways. Don't even need locks just point n shoot in most cases. As to a bap it has the built in +100 sensor range quirk which is right at what a bap gives you if you have max sensor nodes.

Honestly, if you're not even waiting on locks, you may as well use MRMs, which'll get you more damage for the tonnage and heat. But if you are, stacking a BAP on top of the sensor range boost from quirks and skills gives you a sensor range of 1440, which lets you Eye of Sauron people from a frankly absurd distance.

But that's kind of a side issue for the BAP, the real meat is in the ECM punchthrough, particularly since I don't carry TAG on the C1 -- quad lasers actually starts approaching a useful direct-fire option, but three is too weak to bother with.

As for being behind brawlers, I usually find myself in front of them... :v

[Weeny Machine]

foamyesque, on 28 May 2023 - 11:42 AM, said:

Those giant mushrooms on Coliseum annoy me on both an aesthetic and functional level. The map had plenty of cover from direct fire sniping before but was one of like two maps currently in rotation where LRMs could actually function worth a damn consistently, the other being Peaks (which is garbage). LRMs are actually a significant struggle to use solo these days, because it feels like they're being balanced on the theory that everyone using them has a NARC buddy and a team that'll meatshield for them.

Me, I'd nerf NARC duration, nerf radar dep, nerf target retention, upscale their velocity and give them a better plunging arc, and reduce their missile health.

The goal of all those changes would be missiles that can hit more often if not defended, don't fire into terrain for no reason as often, and are still stopped effectively by AMS. And you don't get eliminated from a match for a whole-*** minute because some rando in a Raven popped a backshot on you.

Radar derp is not the problem.

The problems are as usual:
ECM - because it is so powerful man mechs have it. Because of the sniper and camper meta you have a lot of overlapping layers as well

Range - compare LRMs, the supposed long-range weapons, to ERLL... with ERLL and quirks you can fire across half the map or even farther, you hit because the weapon has no velocity, no lock time, you do not need to care for ECM etc
The same goes to some degree for PPCs and Gauss but they have at least verlocity (which got buffed too much imo, though).

Why would anyone bring LRMs then?

[Curccu]

foamyesque, on 28 May 2023 - 11:03 PM, said:

Honestly, if you're not even waiting on locks, you may as well use MRMs, which'll get you more damage for the tonnage and heat. But if you are, stacking a BAP on top of the sensor range boost from quirks and skills gives you a sensor range of 1440, which lets you Eye of Sauron people from a frankly absurd distance.

But that's kind of a side issue for the BAP, the real meat is in the ECM punchthrough, particularly since I don't carry TAG on the C1 -- quad lasers actually starts approaching a useful direct-fire option, but three is too weak to bother with.

As for being behind brawlers, I usually find myself in front of them... :v

cplt-c1 Light PPC is good friend of LRM mech, slaps down ECM, 3 of them have enough damage to fend of some lights.

[Meep Meep]

foamyesque, on 28 May 2023 - 11:03 PM, said:

Honestly, if you're not even waiting on locks, you may as well use MRMs, which'll get you more damage for the tonnage and heat. But if you are, stacking a BAP on top of the sensor range boost from quirks and skills gives you a sensor range of 1440, which lets you Eye of Sauron people from a frankly absurd distance.

But that's kind of a side issue for the BAP, the real meat is in the ECM punchthrough, particularly since I don't carry TAG on the C1 -- quad lasers actually starts approaching a useful direct-fire option, but three is too weak to bother with.

As for being behind brawlers, I usually find myself in front of them... :v

Well mrm don't fire over the top of your front line or the ridge between your group and theirs and can't reach a distant mech at 1100m either. Mrm also require facetime which isn't very conducive to living with the state of mega alphas. When I mention I don't wait for a lock thats the rare time I have a mech in front of me without my meat shield and I want to immediately suppress it as the lock solidifies or I gtfo. Just not a big fan of mrm cats even though you can boat some impressive tubes.

[Gilgamesh Hoi]

pbiggz, on 23 May 2023 - 09:43 AM, said:

Seriously stop making these threads. I don't even fully agree with the cauldron, i would love to see more diversity between different mechs and i would love to see really wacky weird quirks but get a grip guys, you're so obsessed with the idea that an evil cabal is conspiring against you personally that you that you'd rather shut the servers off. Spend less time developing victim complexes.

You would do well to refrain from fabricating quotes, its not only questionable behavior that I wouldn't allow my children to get away with but it also reflects much more poorly on you than the people you are trying to slander. It would appear this is what you do rather than form a cognizant response to a post you disagree with.

You can do better, you can be better than this type of lying and obfuscating. Try to not let it happen again.

[foamyesque]

Weeny Machine, on 28 May 2023 - 11:22 PM, said:

Radar derp is not the problem.

It's part of the problem. Radar deprivation and target retention combine in a nasty way: Every LRM machine takes target retention because everybody takes radar deprivation because if you do not you either can't hold a lock worth a damn (because it drops away near instantly if you have no points in TR but someone has taken radar dep) or you get rained on for ages after you break a lock (because you didn't max out radar dep. and the LRMboat has full TR).

Neither radar dep. nor TR should exist as skills. Mech quirks, yes, but not skills.

[Runecarver]

Vellron2005, on 28 May 2023 - 10:21 AM, said:

Here's a few cold hard facts:

1) Since the Cauldron took over, the game has become heavily geared towards sniping.
2) Maps and meta have shifted towards sniping.
3) New maps are mostly sniper oriented.
4) New mechs, especially new Legendary mechs are made to be a sniper's wet dream.
5) The few maps that were LRM friendly have been ruined and turned into sniper maps.
6) Faction Play is still a cheater/comp player cesspool.
7) The balance is not good. And the continual rebalancing for rebalancing's sake is bad.

So basically.. Yeah, I agree with OP.. The Cauldron needs to get it's act together or withdraw.

You do raise some valid points. And I agree with some of them.

The map designers we've gone through and currently have consistently failed to take the time to make maps that facilitate all playstyles without them being horrendously lopsided for one or another. Recently its been oriented heavily towards long range precision weaponry, which is just not fun for players when you get suppressed into a stationary playstyle with weapons that have a quarter of the total range your opponents.

The cauldron has also repeatedly failed to consider balance from a player enjoyment perspective, and to take all weapons into equal consideration. How many patches in a row have we had "tuning" of values on lasers, ppcs or ballistic weapons back and forth? Not to mention their entire balance design philosophy seems flawed, aimed towards a nebulous competitive standard when the game was never meant to be such and isn't built for that. Not to mention said "competitive minded" players make up an insignificant minority of the overall playerbase.

Edited by Runecarver, 29 May 2023 - 03:46 AM.

[Curccu]

Runecarver, on 29 May 2023 - 03:30 AM, said:

You do raise some valid points. And I agree with some of them.

The map designers we've gone through and currently have consistently failed to take the time to make maps that facilitate all playstyles without them being horrendously lopsided for one or another. Recently its been oriented heavily towards long range precision weaponry, which is just not fun for players when you get suppressed into a stationary playstyle with weapons that have a quarter of the total range your opponents.

The cauldron has also repeatedly failed to consider balance from a player enjoyment perspective, and to take all weapons into equal consideration. How many patches in a row have we had "tuning" of values on lasers, ppcs or ballistic weapons back and forth? Not to mention their entire balance design philosophy seems flawed, aimed towards a nebulous competitive standard when the game was never meant to be such and isn't built for that. Not to mention said "competitive minded" players make up an insignificant minority of the overall playerbase.

I would say that Cauldron weapon balance is ok and they really haven't over buffed snipy weapons too powerful but "new" map design supports sniping too well, best example is new HPG.

[KursedVixen]

Nine-Ball, on 24 May 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

Seeing as how you don't show your Tier I can only assume it is as bad as your powers of mind reading.

mayhap oh poster, or maybe he need not flaunt his tier in such an infiltile test of will. Some may see tier one as a pompous braggart others may see it as a way to bully others....

Curccu, on 29 May 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:

I would say that Cauldron weapon balance is ok and they really haven't over buffed snipy weapons too powerful but "new" map design supports sniping too well, best example is new HPG.

I still really dissagree with making inner sphere parts more like clan and especially the recent reduction of the clan Er medium and large laser. I fully agree with you on HPG and marik stadium or whatever it's called I prefer the old HPG the old HPG walls could only be accessed by a few mechs now you even have assaults on the walls before it was mostly fast jumpy mechs and even then it was rare the top has also been made more open to snipers... I much prefer the old HPG

Edited by KursedVixen, 29 May 2023 - 05:22 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

KursedVixen, on 29 May 2023 - 05:20 AM, said:

I fully agree with you on HPG and marik stadium or whatever it's called I prefer the old HPG the old HPG walls could only be accessed by a few mechs now you even have assaults on the walls before it was mostly fast jumpy mechs and even then it was rare the top has also been made more open to snipers... I much prefer the old HPG

The old HPG had the issue that, if your team didnt have one of the relatively few mechs that can make that jump, you could get stuck with a Shadow Cat / Mist Lynx / etc that was just impossible to flush out. Sure, more mechs can get up there to snipe now, but thats countered by the fact that any mech can now get up there to kill the snipers.

For what its worth, i dont find the bigger snipers up there to be a problem most of the time. Theres plenty of cover on the central area to block their LOS if they are back on the opposite side, and if they flank round to the side they are within 600m or so of multiple good trading spots near the center, so you should be able to easily out trade them with mid range mechs.

Edit: From what ive seen, highly mobile sneaky snipers like an ERPPC or ERLL Shadow Cat are a worse threat on the HPG wall than Dires or MAD IIs etc, because they can sneak right round behind your team and have a perfect position to take backshots - and they could always get up there, but on the old version you couldnt send a fast light to go gank them.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 29 May 2023 - 06:20 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

foamyesque, on 29 May 2023 - 03:15 AM, said:

It's part of the problem. Radar deprivation and target retention combine in a nasty way: Every LRM machine takes target retention because everybody takes radar deprivation because if you do not you either can't hold a lock worth a damn (because it drops away near instantly if you have no points in TR but someone has taken radar dep) or you get rained on for ages after you break a lock (because you didn't max out radar dep. and the LRMboat has full TR).

Neither radar dep. nor TR should exist as skills. Mech quirks, yes, but not skills.

Sure, it is a part of the problem. But before that, you even have to get a lock. And with x layers of ECM, lock on time (which is really f* because you get usually a huge alpha to the face and picked on by the myriad of snipers) and just when you get a lock the target waddles back into cover and maybe a small part of your lrms only hit

Then comes the probkem wirh radar derp