344 replies to this topic

[AtomCore]

Maybe like in Unreal tournament 2004: grab enemy or neutral flag and bring it to own base. Most flag count in the end wins.

And add RAC and LRM turrets.

Edited by AtomCore, 15 August 2023 - 10:16 PM.

[Matmoesa]

Forrest Colleny is one of those maps that I wish the spawns would move around on for different variants of the same map. There are some interesting areas of that map we never fight around.

Scrapyard is a cool new map I dig the vibe, but I think it needs some colour to break up the drab dark blur the map looks like when your playing in it. Some scrap yard flood lights could help break up some of the maps, along with some emissive height markers you could place on top of some of the larger piles for aircraft anything to mix it up.

[VectorStrike]

Sanedance, on 11 August 2023 - 03:53 AM, said:

Thank you for the poll and the opprtunity to give feedback.

For me, the game mode is a little more important than the map. Basically all game modes result in the same "kill everyone first" then take care of the capping points.
Mostly Domination and Skirmish are really different since they require some positioning or the do not.

So some ideas:

1. Please make the capping in Conquest count.

• If you cap all the time and contribute to the team winning, your pilot score still goes down. Ther is virtually no incentive to cap. This kills the capping game modes.
  
• There are some ideas on capping points adding some extra power to the battle like radar, turrets and the like. That could be a good start. I think there is a lot that could make this game mode much more different and fun than he "kill them all before" way.

2. New mode: Attack and Defend.

• An objective to be destroyed/defended is given and during reading for battle,
  
• Players propose and vote for the starting spawn positions.
  
• That way the lances could be created, too: everyone can propose a spawn point. Once 4 lance members are set, the lance is ready. Once the lances are ready, the team is ready. If by timeout that could not be achived: default setup is used.
  
• That could increase the involvement and strategy planning especially in quickplay.

3. VIP assassination

• One Team is randomly chosen for VIP protection, one for assassination
  
• During ready phase :
  
  • VIP Team:
    
    • one mech is chosen (automatically or voted) as the VIP mech
      
    • The VIP mech gets no weapons but a 100% armor and structure increase.
      
    • The VIP Mech is also the one with armor turned into regular stealth armor
      
    • VIP Team has fixed but to assassins unknown starting position (similar to todays spawn points)
      
    • VIP Team has fixed but to all known area where to deliver the VIP alive
  • Assassination team:
    
    • Gets to choose three lance positions, anywhere inside a certain distance to the escape zone.
      
    • Can identify the VIP via UAV or having a the VIP long enough and close enough in sight. (10 sec, < 500m) (values that make sense to be evaluated)

So, I´m sure you´ll find a way how to implement this or any variation. Just a real change from the regular: kill them all while nascaring would be nice.


Thank you

This is great. I'd add that capping should also give match score like dealing damage does

Edited by VectorStrike, 16 August 2023 - 02:55 AM.

[Guile Votoms]

You guys are crazy.
Alpine Peaks is the best map in the game.

[Void Angel]

I think it's definitely the worst map; it's just too lopsided, with everything revolving around that one massive point of key terrain, and almost no options for short and midrange 'mechs.

However, don't feed the troll. =)

[JOATMON Incorporated]

Almost all the maps have their merits. The best maps support multiple play styles/builds on mechs. Regardless of what mech build you have with you, there is a fun spot you fight on that map. Other maps like Solaris and Alpine heavily weight towards favoring builds with a specific combat style in mind. If you happen to have the wrong setup as your mech for that fight, you are going to have a really rough time and it won't be a lot of fun. This isn't to say they are bad maps, its just that they require a much narrower set of tools to make use of them. If Alpine could have a large refinery complex put in the north or south side, so brawlers would have a spot to advance and fight, I think a lot of irritation would be faded for Alpine. This however would only work if Domination were removed from Alpine. This leads right into my next point...

As some folks have pointed out, some game modes just don't work great on some maps. If you could remove or at least weight the probability of certain game modes/maps combos happening it would be great. Additionally, for some game modes like Domination, please don't have the spot always be in the same place. Each Domination map should have like 5 possible spawn points that are equidistant from the two teams and one is selected by the game at random to be the Domination point.

Finally please bring back the old Polar Highlands map. The new one is great as its own map, but I really miss running around in the snow trenches of the original Polar Highlands in my RAC5 Urbie. I loved popping up on the steps and reenacting the trench wars from Hoth firing at enemy Atlas as they slowly lumber towards me across no man's land. The only thing would be maybe spawn the two armies a little bit closer together at the start of the match.

Edited by JOATMON Incorporated, 17 August 2023 - 09:51 AM.

[Void Angel]

I loved the original Polar Highlands; my experience of the people that hated it was that they would assume it was a "sniper map," and try to camp in place to shoot Gauwz Rifflez at people, and refuse to move. The problem was, there was a covered and concealed route to get most any place you wanted to go on that map - and once the enemy team got onto the same side of one of those low, rolling hills, there was no place for the snipers to run. It was the second map (the first being Viridian Bog) that strongly rewarded mobility: the side that maneuvered better tended to win.

That being said, the map had a critical failing in its near-total lack of LRM cover. If one of the randomly-selected PuG opponents had a Light to spot, it turned into a hellish slog through high-explosive rain. Kinda like brawling, sometimes:

What I wanted them to do was add raised solar panel arrays (on poles, so you could walk 'mechs under them) and deepen the trenches a bit to allow for breaking locks and sheltering from missiles, but they chose to add a ton of vertical space. The result is a map that I like, but I really miss the style of the original.

Similarly, changing Alpine around to be less "long-range required centric" would really help the map out. Maybe make two peaks, I dunno. The map is so heavily weighted toward long-range play, especially in the Quickplay environment, that it's often simply not fun to play Sometimes, you can get up the back way and wreck the enemy team that's camping on that mountain, but if your 'mech can't climb, or your team doesn't have enough short-ranged builds, it's rough. The least-fun matches I have ever had in the game are all from Alpine Peaks. Even Solaris City, often touted as a brawler-only map by its detractors, has some longer lines of sight and choke points to balance out the average engagement range.

Edited by Void Angel, 17 August 2023 - 11:51 AM.

[Timuroslav]

My problem with Alpine Peaks is twofold. It was designed with Conquest and Assault game modes in mind. When Skirmish and Domination came out, they were shoehorned in and it makes the map feel awful. Given that people want simpler game modes in quick play. I like the complexity of Incursion and feel like it would do well on Alpine Peaks. But without a drop deck for respawns in incursion. Incursion is never picked for. the Battery and and Artillery system on Incursion is fun. The Base defense aspect is great but it's never explored because people are too impatient to wait and see what happens. If people had multiple mechs and were forced to fight on the base, I would beat people would pick Incursion over dropping twice on Domination.

The thing I think Mechwarrior needs to avoid is that, "I don't like missiles, or hot maps because none of builds are good for those. Therefore I will never vote for Terra Therma or Alpine"
This is bad because it falls into the category of "This doesn't suit my play style or understanding of the game! Change everymap to be the same"

or the

"I don't like it because I suck at it."

Edited by Timuroslav, 17 August 2023 - 12:16 PM.

[Void Angel]

We actually did experiment with base defense when Incursion came out. Didn't work well. Incursion is just a lot for people in a pug group with people that often don't want to deal with complexity and just want to fight their 'mechs at the enemy - and thus ignore the objectives and make everyone's match obnoxious. We tried Incursion, but you end up with the Elo Hell effect from League of Legends: no matter what you do, the chaotic randomness of your teammates' performance has a far greater impact on gameplay, making every match a slog to just try and get everyone to pull together and react properly to the situation (see the image in my post above.)

On the other hand, Domination isn't bad on Alpine because the map isn't designed for it. Domination doesn't work well on Alpine for the same reason that Conquest, Assault, and Skirmish (you forgot that one) don't work well - the map is bad. This isn't a matter of "I don't like long-range guns, so I won't vote Alpine." That's not anyone's thought process; in fact, a major criticism of the meta right now is that it revolves around long-range builds, and many players specialize in just that. Yet those players do not notably vote for the Mountain Climb from Hell.

No, the problem with Alpine is that there's no counter-play. Fights revolve around high terrain with long sight lines on most sides and a very steep climb for mid-range or below builds to navigate, if they want to avoid slogging over open ground. This means that even if they win, anyone who is not long-range simply doesn't get to play for the majority of the match. Blake help you if you're a knife-range brawler; you will sit at the back, and hide, and like it, and pray to Comstar that your snipers win the Gauss Rifle fight... Or do enough damage that the enemy team is open and you can get kills once the final phase of the match rolls around. There's no guarantee that you'll EVER be able to close with anyone; they might just camp at long range until you're the last ones left, and pick you apart as you try to maneuver to them. It's a long, annoying slog for EVERYONE, which is why no one picks the map, and the map is sitting rock-solid on the bottom of the polls.

Edited by Void Angel, 17 August 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[Timuroslav]

I guess I'm just upset, because I find Domination tedious. It takes great large and medium maps and focuses on 2-3 squares of a great map.

[JumpingHunter]

Timuroslav, on 17 August 2023 - 01:55 PM, said:

I guess I'm just upset, because I find Domination tedious. It takes great large and medium maps and focuses on 2-3 squares of a great map.

That also is a good point. Domination simply lock matches down in the tiny circle, and everyone there are either being smelted together like fruits in kitchen blender or get sniped by those who don't participate in capture, and instead are sitting on nearvy rock and target practicing. When majority of players pilot a brawling mechs, matches become a slaughterhouse, with little to no places to regroup, and when more than half of players are snipers game becomes a sniperfest, while 2-3 guys actually run around circle trying to cap/flank/break enemy lines. On good and generally smaller maps, like Vittric Station, it works, but on larger maps that are designed around having big spaces for maneuvers it just becomes a very unnatural and forced experience.

I would suggest changing domination on some maps to this model: you get 3 or 4 smaller circles that are all required to be capped and held for 1 minute (or 30 seconds) just like original single circle. This would encourage teams to split up more, will force players to relocate from their main murderball formation to cap these circles. Ideally one lance will fight in one circle at a time, and after initial fighting is over and some circles are capped and held, players can go and either eliminate remnants of enemy team or cap hold their controlled circles. And win condition would be either if you eliminate everyone on enemy team and hold all 3 circles for equal or more time than enemy did, or if you had less time remaining on 2 circles at the end of match timer.

But it would ONLY WORK IF CIRCLES WILL BE NOT IN CENTER OF MAP! Conquest are suffering from Theta being in the center of the map, so majority of players simply walk there and make conq play as skirmish, and then lose to that one light who capped all other 4 points. If all 3 circles would be split around the map, withc NONE being near center, it would make game flow much differently from the skirmish or current domination with horrible brawling ring in center of map.

And conquest should also get some point displacement, because now it's also too center-based, most of the action often flows in the Theta point, locking game down in center of map.

[Xyco]

Some of the battles seem to center in the middle or only in certain parts of the map. I look forward to map designs that would allow us to battle in different parts of it.

Examples:
- Alpine Peaks (skirmish, domination, assault), almost all the battles happen in select areas of the map, it is such a waste of a big map. Domination seems to favor one spawn side only
- Polar Highlands - similar issues to Alpine Peaks
- Hellebore, practically D5 E5 area only, rarely does D3 E3 see much action
- Terra Therma Crucible, seems to suffer with a central point where most of the battles are fought, outskirts don't see much action

[Void Angel]

the check engine light, on 17 August 2023 - 01:41 PM, said:

As bad as it is, I still manage to loathe Frozen more because Dom and Assault frequently come up for it. Conq isn't great on it either as Theta sits close to where the dom point usually is. Incursion and Skirmish are the BETTER options for it because of the spawns and in Skirmish's case especially, the mode not forcing you to either do dumb **** (hold Dom point) or sit with your thumb up your butt and hope SOMEONE crosses (*** Salt).

I don't find Polar to be bad at all in my matches - provided people don't just camp mindlessly in their favorite $|\|1P3R $P077 (I8 comes to mind) across from the central buildings. If teams actually scout and try to move against each other, the map is fun, and that's usually what happens, more often than not.

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

the check engine light, on 15 August 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't think it's very constructive to assume skill over preference here.

Don't you think skill and tactical thinking is prevailing to the map choice.
Most are still learning,these are choices for themselfs not for the best games a team can have.

That's why the constant tweaking and dissapearing of buildout of faction play had happened.
The lore and faction play never went anywhere because it wasn't the base of the game.

QP has become that, with maybe 4-man teams in it.

[SwirlingBrain]

Since mechs can work underwater (fleas and locusts sometimes go completely under), will there ever be an underwater map?

I remember in MW3 there was a cave complex in the campaign. Will there ever be a big cave complex map?

In MW3 there was a map where the elementals were jumping up and down and taking pot shots. Will there ever be a map where turrets (like incursion) or elementals shoot at players? Sure I'd like to pilot an elemental and I realize it may not be practical to make them or pilot them since they have a limited range of motion, but I could easily see them placed strategically on the map with AI to shoot at players, although it may be a little aggravating. Maybe AI elemental mechs roaming the fort could be an addition to incursion?
Of course enemy helicopters or tanks taking pot shots at players during the game would be interesting too. Basically distractions that keep snipers and the like from only sitting in one spot and camping. I could see AI running the tanks and helicopters and elementals but it still would be cool to pilot any of those even if they are a minor role. Or maybe they could be controlled by one person like an RTS in the game.

Could there ever be a map that moves like a big manufacturing center where arms or pistons get in the way of shots or whole platforms move that move mechs if they stand on them. Or like unstable earthquake ridden land that makes it hard or impossible to use the zoom and snipe.

Another might be just a flat open map with no obstacles to just duke it out and watch everyone die. Of course that would be horrible for short range guys so unlikely that would happen unless the map was a very small map to begin with like just a small open room sort of thing.

Another of my wacky ideas would be a mech graveyard. It would be hard to tell which are live mechs and which are dead mechs for sure. Might require some sensors (Thermal or BAP?) to help.

It would be cool to see the 4 legged mechs in the game. Maybe a mode where several were walking across a map to get to the other side. The team that brings the most down by the end wins? Teams could both kill each other and work on killing the 4 legged mechs.

Edited by SwirlingBrain, 20 August 2023 - 07:59 PM.

[Airmikee]

Haters gonna Hate on Incursion.

[ZEEL MadCat]

but why ? INCURSION is really best mode - with most tactcal possibilities/ why people so like deathmatch style ?

[JumpingHunter]

ZEEL MadCat, on 21 August 2023 - 08:14 PM, said:

but why ? INCURSION is really best mode - with most tactcal possibilities/ why people so like deathmatch style ?

Agree, incursion is an interesting mode, and it can flow very interestingly, especially when there's only a bunch of damaged mechs left on one side and they are making last stand behind defense turrets and base buildings, but people who hate incursion are also very often the ones who make it play like deathmatch in a first place. If you have a dedicated light pack capping energy batteries and skirmishing around enemy base trying to neutralize defense turrets it's one thing, and the mode is working as intended, but if you just have 12 heavy-assault guys running around the center and not doing anything other than shooting enemy - there's not much you can do other than join them, or you die. So basically incursion is too complicated for some players, and they are making it unbalanced and hard to play properly for everyone else by not participating in a first place.

Domination and Skirmish are just plagued minds of some people with NASCAR and murderball/trench warfare, so every mode that tries to scatter mechs around the map is considered bad, sadly...

[Zen Dragon]

Please add a game mode without lights. Drops with just Assaults, Heavy, and Mediums would be an interesting game mode! I know many people love lights, fine. But please give those of us that do not want to play an FPS twitch shooter an option to not have the lights in the game. They are nearly impossible to hit and they have crazy lag armor that makes it so that even if you do hit them they just keep going. I legit unloaded 60 points of pinpoint damage into one of those little things and it just scurried off like nothing happened. It's annoying and frustrating and every single game devolves into 2-2 light vs light endgame matches. They do way too much damage for their size and speed and lag armor.

Fine for those that would like to keep using them but please let us try something different. A no-lights game mode! All other types allowed.

[Zen Dragon]

Incursion with repair stations in your base would be an excellent game mode and give you incentive to guard the base. It can't re-attach broken limbs, but it can restore structure and armor and ammo to any components that are still intact. Perhaps also repair damaged weapons. There would be a time penalty for repair, players would have to stand in the repair bay for a while to get repaired. Just like caping.

Game modes end far to quickly. We spend 15 minutes loading the map and 6 minutes fighting. It's frustrating. Matches should last 20 minutes or so with an ebb and flow to the battle as units have tactics then other than suicide to draw fire. They could take damage and fall back for repair. Players could guard key resource points and repair stations.