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Map And Mode Feedback!


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Poll: Map and Mode Feedback (2036 member(s) have cast votes)

Favorite Large Map?

  1. Voted Alpine Peaks (188 votes [9.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.24%

  2. Forest Colony (131 votes [6.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.44%

  3. Voted Free Worlds Coliseum (114 votes [5.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.60%

  4. Frozen City (96 votes [4.72%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.72%

  5. Voted Grim Plexus (447 votes [21.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.98%

  6. Polar Highlands (125 votes [6.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.15%

  7. Voted Solaris City (314 votes [15.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.44%

  8. Terra Therma (58 votes [2.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.85%

  9. Terra Therma Crucible (71 votes [3.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.49%

  10. Voted Tourmaline Desert (490 votes [24.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.09%

Favorite Medium Map?

  1. Caustic Valley (84 votes [4.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.13%

  2. Crimson Strait (126 votes [6.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.19%

  3. Emerald Vale (188 votes [9.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.24%

  4. Voted HPG Manifold (373 votes [18.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.34%

  5. Hellebore Springs (59 votes [2.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.90%

  6. Voted Mining Collective (511 votes [25.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.12%

  7. Voted River City (189 votes [9.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.29%

  8. Voted Rubellite Oasis (323 votes [15.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.88%

  9. Viridian Bog (181 votes [8.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.90%

Favorite Small Map?

  1. Voted Canyon Network (705 votes [34.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 34.66%

  2. Voted Ceres Metal Scrapyard (149 votes [7.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.33%

  3. Voted Forest Colony Classic (83 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

  4. Voted Forest Colony Classic Snow (53 votes [2.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.61%

  5. Frozen City Classic (109 votes [5.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.36%

  6. Frozen City Classic Night (240 votes [11.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.80%

  7. Hibernal Rift (220 votes [10.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.82%

  8. Vitric Station (475 votes [23.35%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.35%

Least Favorite Large Map?

  1. Voted Alpine Peaks (668 votes [32.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.84%

  2. Forest Colony (121 votes [5.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.95%

  3. Free Worlds Coliseum (177 votes [8.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  4. Frozen City (168 votes [8.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.26%

  5. Voted Grim Plexus (67 votes [3.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.29%

  6. Polar Highlands (155 votes [7.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.62%

  7. Voted Solaris City (341 votes [16.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.76%

  8. Terra Therma (134 votes [6.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.59%

  9. Voted Terra Therma Crucible (139 votes [6.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.83%

  10. Tourmaline Desert (64 votes [3.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.15%

Least Favorite Medium Map?

  1. Voted Caustic Valley (511 votes [25.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.14%

  2. Crimson Strait (156 votes [7.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.67%

  3. Voted Emerald Vale (199 votes [9.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.79%

  4. HPG Manifold (165 votes [8.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.12%

  5. Voted Hellebore Springs (429 votes [21.10%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.10%

  6. Mining Collective (122 votes [6.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.00%

  7. River City (183 votes [9.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.00%

  8. Voted Rubellite Oasis (102 votes [5.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.02%

  9. Viridian Bog (166 votes [8.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.17%

Least Favorite Small Map?

  1. Canyon Network (213 votes [10.47%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.47%

  2. Voted Ceres Metal Scrapyard (408 votes [20.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.06%

  3. Forest Colony Classic (401 votes [19.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.71%

  4. Forest Colony Classic Snow (137 votes [6.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.74%

  5. Voted Frozen City Classic (239 votes [11.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.75%

  6. Frozen City Classic Night (66 votes [3.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.24%

  7. Voted Hibernal Rift (333 votes [16.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.37%

  8. Vitric Station (237 votes [11.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.65%

Favorite Gamemode?

  1. Voted Assault (333 votes [16.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.37%

  2. Voted Conquest (422 votes [20.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.75%

  3. Incursion (155 votes [7.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.62%

  4. Voted Skirmish (487 votes [23.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.94%

  5. Voted Domination (637 votes [31.32%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.32%

Least Favorite Gamemode?

  1. Voted Assault (149 votes [7.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.33%

  2. Voted Conquest (380 votes [18.68%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.68%

  3. Voted Incursion (998 votes [49.07%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 49.07%

  4. Skirmish (314 votes [15.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.44%

  5. Voted Domination (193 votes [9.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.49%

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#301 Mechwarrior2342356

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Posted 17 August 2023 - 01:41 PM

View PostVoid Angel, on 17 August 2023 - 01:22 PM, said:

We actually did experiment with base defense when Incursion came out. Didn't work well. Incursion is just a lot for people in a pug group with people that often don't want to deal with complexity and just want to fight their 'mechs at the enemy - and thus ignore the objectives and make everyone's match obnoxious. We tried Incursion, but you end up with the Elo Hell effect from League of Legends: no matter what you do, the chaotic randomness of your teammates' performance has a far greater impact on gameplay, making every match a slog to just try and get everyone to pull together and react properly to the situation (see the image in my post above.) Posted Image

On the other hand, Domination isn't bad on Alpine because the map isn't designed for it. Domination doesn't work well on Alpine for the same reason that Conquest, Assault, and Skirmish (you forgot that one) don't work well - the map is bad. This isn't a matter of "I don't like long-range guns, so I won't vote Alpine." That's not anyone's thought process; in fact, a major criticism of the meta right now is that it revolves around long-range builds, and many players specialize in just that. Yet those players do not notably vote for the Mountain Climb from Hell.

No, the problem with Alpine is that there's no counter-play. Fights revolve around high terrain with long sight lines on most sides and a very steep climb for mid-range or below builds to navigate, if they want to avoid slogging over open ground. This means that even if they win, anyone who is not long-range simply doesn't get to play for the majority of the match. Blake help you if you're a knife-range brawler; you will sit at the back, and hide, and like it, and pray to Comstar that your snipers win the Gauss Rifle fight... Or do enough damage that the enemy team is open and you can get kills once the final phase of the match rolls around. There's no guarantee that you'll EVER be able to close with anyone; they might just camp at long range until you're the last ones left, and pick you apart as you try to maneuver to them. It's a long, annoying slog for EVERYONE, which is why no one picks the map, and the map is sitting rock-solid on the bottom of the polls.

As bad as it is, I still manage to loathe Frozen more because Dom and Assault frequently come up for it. Conq isn't great on it either as Theta sits close to where the dom point usually is. Incursion and Skirmish are the BETTER options for it because of the spawns and in Skirmish's case especially, the mode not forcing you to either do dumb **** (hold Dom point) or sit with your thumb up your butt and hope SOMEONE crosses (*** Salt).

#302 Timuroslav

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Posted 17 August 2023 - 01:55 PM

I guess I'm just upset, because I find Domination tedious. It takes great large and medium maps and focuses on 2-3 squares of a great map.

#303 JumpingHunter

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Posted 17 August 2023 - 03:25 PM

View PostTimuroslav, on 17 August 2023 - 01:55 PM, said:

I guess I'm just upset, because I find Domination tedious. It takes great large and medium maps and focuses on 2-3 squares of a great map.


That also is a good point. Domination simply lock matches down in the tiny circle, and everyone there are either being smelted together like fruits in kitchen blender or get sniped by those who don't participate in capture, and instead are sitting on nearvy rock and target practicing. When majority of players pilot a brawling mechs, matches become a slaughterhouse, with little to no places to regroup, and when more than half of players are snipers game becomes a sniperfest, while 2-3 guys actually run around circle trying to cap/flank/break enemy lines. On good and generally smaller maps, like Vittric Station, it works, but on larger maps that are designed around having big spaces for maneuvers it just becomes a very unnatural and forced experience.

I would suggest changing domination on some maps to this model: you get 3 or 4 smaller circles that are all required to be capped and held for 1 minute (or 30 seconds) just like original single circle. This would encourage teams to split up more, will force players to relocate from their main murderball formation to cap these circles. Ideally one lance will fight in one circle at a time, and after initial fighting is over and some circles are capped and held, players can go and either eliminate remnants of enemy team or cap hold their controlled circles. And win condition would be either if you eliminate everyone on enemy team and hold all 3 circles for equal or more time than enemy did, or if you had less time remaining on 2 circles at the end of match timer.

But it would ONLY WORK IF CIRCLES WILL BE NOT IN CENTER OF MAP! Conquest are suffering from Theta being in the center of the map, so majority of players simply walk there and make conq play as skirmish, and then lose to that one light who capped all other 4 points. If all 3 circles would be split around the map, withc NONE being near center, it would make game flow much differently from the skirmish or current domination with horrible brawling ring in center of map.

And conquest should also get some point displacement, because now it's also too center-based, most of the action often flows in the Theta point, locking game down in center of map.

#304 Xyco

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Posted 17 August 2023 - 05:33 PM

Some of the battles seem to center in the middle or only in certain parts of the map. I look forward to map designs that would allow us to battle in different parts of it.

Examples:
- Alpine Peaks (skirmish, domination, assault), almost all the battles happen in select areas of the map, it is such a waste of a big map. Domination seems to favor one spawn side only
- Polar Highlands - similar issues to Alpine Peaks
- Hellebore, practically D5 E5 area only, rarely does D3 E3 see much action
- Terra Therma Crucible, seems to suffer with a central point where most of the battles are fought, outskirts don't see much action

#305 Void Angel

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Posted 17 August 2023 - 07:54 PM

View Postthe check engine light, on 17 August 2023 - 01:41 PM, said:

As bad as it is, I still manage to loathe Frozen more because Dom and Assault frequently come up for it. Conq isn't great on it either as Theta sits close to where the dom point usually is. Incursion and Skirmish are the BETTER options for it because of the spawns and in Skirmish's case especially, the mode not forcing you to either do dumb **** (hold Dom point) or sit with your thumb up your butt and hope SOMEONE crosses (*** Salt).


I don't find Polar to be bad at all in my matches - provided people don't just camp mindlessly in their favorite $|\|1P3R $P077 (I8 comes to mind) across from the central buildings. If teams actually scout and try to move against each other, the map is fun, and that's usually what happens, more often than not.

#306 Rebel Ace Fryslan

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Posted 19 August 2023 - 01:51 PM

View Postthe check engine light, on 15 August 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't think it's very constructive to assume skill over preference here.

Don't you think skill and tactical thinking is prevailing to the map choice.
Most are still learning,these are choices for themselfs not for the best games a team can have.

That's why the constant tweaking and dissapearing of buildout of faction play had happened.
The lore and faction play never went anywhere because it wasn't the base of the game.

QP has become that, with maybe 4-man teams in it.

#307 Mechwarrior2342356

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Posted 20 August 2023 - 04:46 AM

View PostRebel Ace Fryslan, on 19 August 2023 - 01:51 PM, said:

Don't you think skill and tactical thinking is prevailing to the map choice.
Most are still learning,these are choices for themselfs not for the best games a team can have.

That's why the constant tweaking and dissapearing of buildout of faction play had happened.
The lore and faction play never went anywhere because it wasn't the base of the game.

QP has become that, with maybe 4-man teams in it.

Just because they choose a map they think they can pwn on doesn't mean they actually can. I barely give a **** about "tactical map choice", I ******* hate Frozen and HPG even in a sniper, I ******* hate Canyon even in a jumpy fast mech, I ******* hate Conq especially in a fast mech. I'm actually starting to resent the **** out of being forced to play maps and modes I absolutely never want to see again, I don't ******* CARE how optimal they are for my chassis. Half the time I vote for Hellebore, Crucible and Solaris just to hear the screaming (ESPECIALLY Solaris) and god I am starting to love that.

Edited by the check engine light, 20 August 2023 - 04:48 AM.


#308 SwirlingBrain

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Posted 20 August 2023 - 07:29 PM

Since mechs can work underwater (fleas and locusts sometimes go completely under), will there ever be an underwater map?

I remember in MW3 there was a cave complex in the campaign. Will there ever be a big cave complex map?

In MW3 there was a map where the elementals were jumping up and down and taking pot shots. Will there ever be a map where turrets (like incursion) or elementals shoot at players? Sure I'd like to pilot an elemental and I realize it may not be practical to make them or pilot them since they have a limited range of motion, but I could easily see them placed strategically on the map with AI to shoot at players, although it may be a little aggravating. Maybe AI elemental mechs roaming the fort could be an addition to incursion?
Of course enemy helicopters or tanks taking pot shots at players during the game would be interesting too. Basically distractions that keep snipers and the like from only sitting in one spot and camping. I could see AI running the tanks and helicopters and elementals but it still would be cool to pilot any of those even if they are a minor role. Or maybe they could be controlled by one person like an RTS in the game.

Could there ever be a map that moves like a big manufacturing center where arms or pistons get in the way of shots or whole platforms move that move mechs if they stand on them. Or like unstable earthquake ridden land that makes it hard or impossible to use the zoom and snipe.

Another might be just a flat open map with no obstacles to just duke it out and watch everyone die. Of course that would be horrible for short range guys so unlikely that would happen unless the map was a very small map to begin with like just a small open room sort of thing.

Another of my wacky ideas would be a mech graveyard. It would be hard to tell which are live mechs and which are dead mechs for sure. Might require some sensors (Thermal or BAP?) to help.

It would be cool to see the 4 legged mechs in the game. Maybe a mode where several were walking across a map to get to the other side. The team that brings the most down by the end wins? Teams could both kill each other and work on killing the 4 legged mechs.

Edited by SwirlingBrain, 20 August 2023 - 07:59 PM.


#309 Airmikee

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Posted 21 August 2023 - 06:09 PM

Haters gonna Hate on Incursion.

#310 ZEEL MadCat

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Posted 21 August 2023 - 08:14 PM

but why ? INCURSION is really best mode - with most tactcal possibilities/ why people so like deathmatch style ?

#311 JumpingHunter

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Posted 22 August 2023 - 02:08 AM

View PostZEEL MadCat, on 21 August 2023 - 08:14 PM, said:

but why ? INCURSION is really best mode - with most tactcal possibilities/ why people so like deathmatch style ?


Agree, incursion is an interesting mode, and it can flow very interestingly, especially when there's only a bunch of damaged mechs left on one side and they are making last stand behind defense turrets and base buildings, but people who hate incursion are also very often the ones who make it play like deathmatch in a first place. If you have a dedicated light pack capping energy batteries and skirmishing around enemy base trying to neutralize defense turrets it's one thing, and the mode is working as intended, but if you just have 12 heavy-assault guys running around the center and not doing anything other than shooting enemy - there's not much you can do other than join them, or you die. So basically incursion is too complicated for some players, and they are making it unbalanced and hard to play properly for everyone else by not participating in a first place.

Domination and Skirmish are just plagued minds of some people with NASCAR and murderball/trench warfare, so every mode that tries to scatter mechs around the map is considered bad, sadly...

#312 Zen Dragon

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Posted 22 August 2023 - 05:09 AM

Please add a game mode without lights. Drops with just Assaults, Heavy, and Mediums would be an interesting game mode! I know many people love lights, fine. But please give those of us that do not want to play an FPS twitch shooter an option to not have the lights in the game. They are nearly impossible to hit and they have crazy lag armor that makes it so that even if you do hit them they just keep going. I legit unloaded 60 points of pinpoint damage into one of those little things and it just scurried off like nothing happened. It's annoying and frustrating and every single game devolves into 2-2 light vs light endgame matches. They do way too much damage for their size and speed and lag armor.

Fine for those that would like to keep using them but please let us try something different. A no-lights game mode! All other types allowed.

#313 Zen Dragon

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Posted 22 August 2023 - 05:12 AM

Incursion with repair stations in your base would be an excellent game mode and give you incentive to guard the base. It can't re-attach broken limbs, but it can restore structure and armor and ammo to any components that are still intact. Perhaps also repair damaged weapons. There would be a time penalty for repair, players would have to stand in the repair bay for a while to get repaired. Just like caping.

Game modes end far to quickly. We spend 15 minutes loading the map and 6 minutes fighting. It's frustrating. Matches should last 20 minutes or so with an ebb and flow to the battle as units have tactics then other than suicide to draw fire. They could take damage and fall back for repair. Players could guard key resource points and repair stations.

#314 Void Angel

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Posted 22 August 2023 - 12:22 PM

The problem with Incursion is that it confuses people. There are a lot of people who aren't really up on the why of common strategies; this leads to confusion when you throw them a curveball like Incursion. It's the same reason Conquest matches sometimes just go to hell in a handbasket because everybody scattered - and Conquest is a lot more familiar than Incursion.

#315 C337Skymaster

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Posted 23 August 2023 - 06:11 PM

View PostJOATMON Incorporated, on 17 August 2023 - 09:50 AM, said:

Almost all the maps have their merits. The best maps support multiple play styles/builds on mechs. Regardless of what mech build you have with you, there is a fun spot you fight on that map. Other maps like Solaris and Alpine heavily weight towards favoring builds with a specific combat style in mind. If you happen to have the wrong setup as your mech for that fight, you are going to have a really rough time and it won't be a lot of fun. This isn't to say they are bad maps, its just that they require a much narrower set of tools to make use of them. If Alpine could have a large refinery complex put in the north or south side, so brawlers would have a spot to advance and fight, I think a lot of irritation would be faded for Alpine. This however would only work if Domination were removed from Alpine. This leads right into my next point...

As some folks have pointed out, some game modes just don't work great on some maps. If you could remove or at least weight the probability of certain game modes/maps combos happening it would be great. Additionally, for some game modes like Domination, please don't have the spot always be in the same place. Each Domination map should have like 5 possible spawn points that are equidistant from the two teams and one is selected by the game at random to be the Domination point.

Finally please bring back the old Polar Highlands map. The new one is great as its own map, but I really miss running around in the snow trenches of the original Polar Highlands in my RAC5 Urbie. I loved popping up on the steps and reenacting the trench wars from Hoth firing at enemy Atlas as they slowly lumber towards me across no man's land. The only thing would be maybe spawn the two armies a little bit closer together at the start of the match.

View PostVoid Angel, on 17 August 2023 - 11:42 AM, said:

I loved the original Polar Highlands; my experience of the people that hated it was that they would assume it was a "sniper map," and try to camp in place to shoot Gauwz Rifflez at people, and refuse to move. The problem was, there was a covered and concealed route to get most any place you wanted to go on that map - and once the enemy team got onto the same side of one of those low, rolling hills, there was no place for the snipers to run. It was the second map (the first being Viridian Bog) that strongly rewarded mobility: the side that maneuvered better tended to win.

That being said, the map had a critical failing in its near-total lack of LRM cover. If one of the randomly-selected PuG opponents had a Light to spot, it turned into a hellish slog through high-explosive rain. Kinda like brawling, sometimes: Posted Image

What I wanted them to do was add raised solar panel arrays (on poles, so you could walk 'mechs under them) and deepen the trenches a bit to allow for breaking locks and sheltering from missiles, but they chose to add a ton of vertical space. The result is a map that I like, but I really miss the style of the original.

Similarly, changing Alpine around to be less "long-range required centric" would really help the map out. Maybe make two peaks, I dunno. The map is so heavily weighted toward long-range play, especially in the Quickplay environment, that it's often simply not fun to play Sometimes, you can get up the back way and wreck the enemy team that's camping on that mountain, but if your 'mech can't climb, or your team doesn't have enough short-ranged builds, it's rough. The least-fun matches I have ever had in the game are all from Alpine Peaks. Even Solaris City, often touted as a brawler-only map by its detractors, has some longer lines of sight and choke points to balance out the average engagement range.

So I'm seeing a lot of similar themes in both of these posts, and all I can think is: those areas already exist on Alpine. There's a built up town with lots of buildings and cover towards the back of the map, there are two opposing peaks which can snipe at each other (over the top of that same town, and previously with similarly vertical walls, but now with major access ramps cut in one side).

I feel as though the issue isn't so much that the map lacks the available terrain, as it is that the spawn points don't encourage its use.

I LOVE the idea of the Domination point being randomly placed, though. Something, anything, to break up the monotony of walking to the exact same microdot and ignoring 90% of the map. It's an impossibly popular game mode for some reason, though: I can reliably build up a multiplier of 8 or 9 just by voting against it, it's that common. Generally, the only time I don't play Domination is when it's not an option. So making it more varied would be very nice. :)

View PostJumpingHunter, on 17 August 2023 - 03:25 PM, said:


That also is a good point. Domination simply lock matches down in the tiny circle, and everyone there are either being smelted together like fruits in kitchen blender or get sniped by those who don't participate in capture, and instead are sitting on nearvy rock and target practicing. When majority of players pilot a brawling mechs, matches become a slaughterhouse, with little to no places to regroup, and when more than half of players are snipers game becomes a sniperfest, while 2-3 guys actually run around circle trying to cap/flank/break enemy lines. On good and generally smaller maps, like Vittric Station, it works, but on larger maps that are designed around having big spaces for maneuvers it just becomes a very unnatural and forced experience.

I would suggest changing domination on some maps to this model: you get 3 or 4 smaller circles that are all required to be capped and held for 1 minute (or 30 seconds) just like original single circle. This would encourage teams to split up more, will force players to relocate from their main murderball formation to cap these circles. Ideally one lance will fight in one circle at a time, and after initial fighting is over and some circles are capped and held, players can go and either eliminate remnants of enemy team or cap hold their controlled circles. And win condition would be either if you eliminate everyone on enemy team and hold all 3 circles for equal or more time than enemy did, or if you had less time remaining on 2 circles at the end of match timer.

But it would ONLY WORK IF CIRCLES WILL BE NOT IN CENTER OF MAP! Conquest are suffering from Theta being in the center of the map, so majority of players simply walk there and make conq play as skirmish, and then lose to that one light who capped all other 4 points. If all 3 circles would be split around the map, withc NONE being near center, it would make game flow much differently from the skirmish or current domination with horrible brawling ring in center of map.

And conquest should also get some point displacement, because now it's also too center-based, most of the action often flows in the Theta point, locking game down in center of map.

So I like your plan, but it sounds oddly familiar....... :) Conquest already does exactly this. Now, insofar as Alpine Peaks goes, I will agree: those points need to be spread out a bit. The fact that one well-placed sniper can deny access to 4 of the 5 cap points, and only because number 5 is out at the edge of the map in no-man's land, means they're too close together and need some space.

Otherwise, this is exactly what I loved about Conquest on Polar Classic, and find boring and repetitive about Conquest on Polar Ruined, is that on Polar Classic, the cap points weren't in a cross pattern, they were in a ring, and the fight was usually a lot more dynamic depending on which way each team decided to rotate, and what cover they found.

As far as there "not being a lot of LRM cover", that was only true in the middle of Polar, which was also where the Domination Circle was set up, which, as noted above, was voted for so heavily as to be a reliable multiplier generator. If you stuck to the edges, there was (and still is) a lot more craggy terrain, larger rocks and ice chunks, and much deeper trenches where you could hide. And of course, there were the built up areas, if you had the option of camping inside one.

Ultimately, the ability to snipe on that map was definitely there. The ability to stay in the low ground and get close for a brawl was also there, and depending where you stood, LRM cover was in abundance as well. More often than not, if I brought an LRM boat to Polar, and it wasn't Domination, I had a hard time being effective until I was directly supporting a brawler as fire support because the ranges were too long, and I couldn't reach with my missiles. Once the brawl started, though, nobody's looking for cover, anymore, because you're busy dealing with the guy 200m away, and a LRM boat can be a very effective force multiplier. Same goes on any map, though, because the brawler pushes the enemy 'mech out of cover to give the LRM boat a clean shot.

#316 Void Angel

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Posted 23 August 2023 - 09:41 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 23 August 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

So I'm seeing a lot of similar themes in both of these posts, and all I can think is: those areas already exist on Alpine. There's a built up town with lots of buildings and cover towards the back of the map, there are two opposing peaks which can snipe at each other (over the top of that same town, and previously with similarly vertical walls, but now with major access ramps cut in one side).
[exerpted for space]
As far as there "not being a lot of LRM cover", that was only true in the middle of Polar,


Well, that's just not really true. There were a few small areas with structures, and a handful of other places that could maybe block LRM fire. But most of your defense from LRMs was concealment, not cover - all it took was one Light with the ability and inclination to spot for enemy LRMs to make your life into Blake's own hell, and there was nothing you could do about it. Remember, this was also before everyone and his freebirth uncle had ECM, too. Trying to camp a small urban area as the enemy team surrounds you and inundates the area with air and artillery strikes isn't a very fun day either; ask me how I know...

It's no good to say, "well, people just need to play with all of the map." In anything that's not skirmish, it's impossible to do that without exposing your team to the cheap objective loss. Conquest has to get points, then fight the enemy team; staying to one of the scattered areas with structures or whatnot at the edge of the map is gentle suicide by capture. Other non-Skirmish modes have the same vulnerability: ignoring objectives leads to failure, and there's no way to trek to the edge of the map for better defensive terrain and guard your base at the same time.

Original Polar was a great map with a single major flaw, but that flaw was critical. The same thing that made the map tactically different was also what made it a problem: all those long, rolling hills. What I wanted to see was trenches that were deep enough to actually shelter 'mechs sometimes, and a bunch of elevated solar panels, maintenance gantries, etc, that would essentially act as overhead cover without giving 'mechs concealment from direct fire. Alas, I was not consulted. Posted Image

There's some misconception about how to play Domination here, too. Yes, you end up in generally close combat, but you don't have to just bang 'mechs together, as it were. You still need to scout, flank, etc, and the circle isn't a straightjacket. In fact, many times those guys with long-range builds who stay outside ARE participating in the capture game - because any damage done to an enemy inside the circle stops their cap. It's not going to replace 'mechs inside the control zone, but it does help, and it does channelize enemy movement, limiting maneuvers against your own teammates who are in the zone.

Edited by Void Angel, 23 August 2023 - 09:43 PM.


#317 KursedVixen

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Posted 23 August 2023 - 09:49 PM

if this is a thing cap assist should not make the cap point in domination go faster already i've played 2 games where i couildn't even get to the point in a light,,, and sometimes we have no light mech....

#318 C337Skymaster

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 04:36 AM

View PostVoid Angel, on 23 August 2023 - 09:41 PM, said:


Well, that's just not really true. There were a few small areas with structures, and a handful of other places that could maybe block LRM fire. But most of your defense from LRMs was concealment, not cover - all it took was one Light with the ability and inclination to spot for enemy LRMs to make your life into Blake's own hell, and there was nothing you could do about it. Remember, this was also before everyone and his freebirth uncle had ECM, too. Trying to camp a small urban area as the enemy team surrounds you and inundates the area with air and artillery strikes isn't a very fun day either; ask me how I know...

It's no good to say, "well, people just need to play with all of the map." In anything that's not skirmish, it's impossible to do that without exposing your team to the cheap objective loss. Conquest has to get points, then fight the enemy team; staying to one of the scattered areas with structures or whatnot at the edge of the map is gentle suicide by capture. Other non-Skirmish modes have the same vulnerability: ignoring objectives leads to failure, and there's no way to trek to the edge of the map for better defensive terrain and guard your base at the same time.

Original Polar was a great map with a single major flaw, but that flaw was critical. The same thing that made the map tactically different was also what made it a problem: all those long, rolling hills. What I wanted to see was trenches that were deep enough to actually shelter 'mechs sometimes, and a bunch of elevated solar panels, maintenance gantries, etc, that would essentially act as overhead cover without giving 'mechs concealment from direct fire. Alas, I was not consulted. Posted Image

There's some misconception about how to play Domination here, too. Yes, you end up in generally close combat, but you don't have to just bang 'mechs together, as it were. You still need to scout, flank, etc, and the circle isn't a straightjacket. In fact, many times those guys with long-range builds who stay outside ARE participating in the capture game - because any damage done to an enemy inside the circle stops their cap. It's not going to replace 'mechs inside the control zone, but it does help, and it does channelize enemy movement, limiting maneuvers against your own teammates who are in the zone.


Conquest on Old Polar was the absolute best form of both that map, and that mode. It forced the team to spread out and use the WHOLE map, and both Theta and Epsilon were near areas with significant LRM cover. It was also the widest spread between cap points, but still with multiple avenues to get there (you could sneak through trenches around the edge, or speed across the middle, out in the open, where the distances were enough that even out in the open, you're still max weapon range from most of the fighting). Grim Plexus has similar distances between cap points, but much more in the way, dramatically restricting your pathing options.

I've only gotten surrounded in the buildings on Polar once, and only because our team was spending more time hiding than shooting. As long an active firing line can be maintained, you can snipe at flankers, and prevent yourself from getting surrounded.

As for LRM cover, I only remember getting absolutely obliterated by LRMs during Domination matches, when I had to be even MORE exposed in order to get to harder cover (of which there was quite a bit, just outside the circle, but again: on the other side of even more open ground, thus dangerous to get to).

On anything other than Domination, LRM carriers were generally out of range for most of the match, and once they got within range, they were close enough to be pushed and brawled. UAVs were dangerous on that map, but if you kept your eye on the sky (especially if you had arm-mounted PPCs or lasers), you could keep your team covered from those.

Was there as much LRM cover on Polar as on Viridian, or old Canyon? No. But there wasn't "none" either, and it wasn't completely inaccessible to anything going faster than about 81 kph.

#319 Just One Doane

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 05:29 AM

In my opinion, the maps overall are very good. My only complaint is that many old maps had to go away for new maps. I love the new Polar Highlands, but I also enjoyed the old one. Looking at the poll results as of today, I think a lot of the feedback on maps can be explained as 'can I run into the middle of the map and brawl, or set up to snipe the middle of the map because I know exactly where the enemy team is going to go every time?' If yes, then the map is good. If no, or I have to walk a long distance for this to happen, then no. I LOVE the cat and mouse games that can occur on the bigger maps when you don't always know where the enemy is going to be. I believe the bigger issue, and a solution to a lot of the feedback I see for the game all over, is to address the game modes.

Skirmish - On the larger maps, vary the spawn locations to encourage engagements somewhere besides the approximate center of the map. This can also occasionally be used to place the teams closed together. While it can be rewarding to have more time to set up, it is nice once and awhile to get the action going faster on the bigger maps.

Domination - Similar to Skirmish, I think changing up the location of the domination circle would help open up new tactical and strategic choices. Also, I would love to see the circle not be a circle. Customizing the shape to conform to the map would also help the action. For example, on Mining Collective, Domination should only count the top tier platform in the center. No single mechs just hiding out on the lower tier should be able to keep the clock from moving. On Alpine Peaks, utilizing a structure grouping, and making you have to have a mech in amongst the buildings would really up the action and pressure.

Assault - As with Skirmish, move and focus the spawn points (at least some of the time) in specific areas of bigger maps to create more urgent action while still allowing options for long flanks to get to a base.

Conquest - I don't think any major changes need to made, other than some general feedback to incentivize objectives more across all game modes. This is by far the most diverse mode in the game. This is for two reasons I believe. 1) It is the only mode that truly rewards light mechs for doing light mech things, scouting, recon, and picking off lone assaults is so much more meaningful here because in every other game mode, 95%+ of the time the teams are always going to go to the exact same spots. And 2) It is the only mode that players generally play to the mode. Assault and Domination are just skirmish 90% of the time or more.

Incursion - I think this mode is great, but most people just don't see it enough to even understand the options. I can't remember a game of this where at least one person on my team genuinely has no idea what's going on. Biggest issue here I believe is just incentivizing playing the objectives more (As with all modes, doing lots of damage and kills is more rewarding to the player than capping or hitting the base, win or lose.) And here's a big one, I think: Move all base turrets to the outside of the walls, and buff their durability. Teams would be more likely yo try and defend if they have help defending the actual wall. Players should also be rewarded for getting around/through the walls by having free reign inside the enemies base. It is SOOO anti-climactic to lose the game because you wipe the enemy team and then have a turret get the win.

I would also love to see new general game modes, in addition to the cool options being thrown in for the event queue. An escort mode, or a capture the flag would provide more variety.

As always, keep up the awesome work!

#320 Void Angel

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 12:57 PM

View PostKursedVixen, on 23 August 2023 - 09:49 PM, said:

if this is a thing cap assist should not make the cap point in domination go faster already i've played 2 games where i couildn't even get to the point in a light,,, and sometimes we have no light mech....


It doesn't, to the best of my knowledge. The number of people in the circle doesn't matter either. Were you in a fast light, or a middle-speed, 104 kph or so? Seems incredible that any Light couldn't get to the control zone before cap, though... You should report it as a bug.





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