344 replies to this topic

[Ch0c0L4t3m1Lk]

skirmish needs a way to prevent people from running off and hiding to preserve K/D so your team spends the final 8 minutes of the match looking for the last mech.

alpine peaks is too one dimensional. you fight in middle or sometimes maybe someone will wrap around. in conquest one of the cap points is in the middle of nowhere.

the metal mushrooms in free world colloseum are too much. i liked having a LRM map, i have to sit through solaris city with my LRMs being wasted on bridges and walls at least give me a nice map for LRMS. playing it, i didnt even find it bad for LRMs at all, there are enough low points in the map you can move around without being seen too much if youre not an idiot.

[C337Skymaster]

Zac Baran, on 06 August 2023 - 09:08 AM, said:

I don't like maps that give an extreme advantage or disadvantage to certain weapons.
They lead to an extreme handicap for one team or the other due to the luck factor of matching, which has nothing to do with the players.

To give one example, consider if the map Solaris City is chosen and one or more LRM boats are assigned to your team.
It is almost impossible for them to achieve decent war results, and it is not much different than away from keyboard.
Teams are forced to be at a numerical disadvantage from the start. This is not easy to reverse.

It is natural that different maps create weapon advantages and disadvantages. But there is a limit to everything.
Maps like the LRM Boat in Solaris City, which create overwhelming disadvantages that player skill cannot possibly cover, are a problem.

This isn't actually true, though. I've gotten 700 dmg and a few kills using a Nova Cat-B (LRM 90 and a pair of ERML's) on Solaris City. It requires a team that works together and communicates, and a team that doesn't go into the center of the map. If you get the fight going in one of those wide open areas just outside the center, there's a lot of room for ranged combat where LRMs can participate quite nicely.

So while LRMs are much harder to use on Solaris City, they're not impossible to use, and this is definitely something a skilled player can overcome.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 06 August 2023 - 02:54 PM.

[simon1812]

Zac Baran, on 06 August 2023 - 09:08 AM, said:

I don't like maps that give an extreme advantage or disadvantage to certain weapons.
They lead to an extreme handicap for one team or the other due to the luck factor of matching, which has nothing to do with the players.

To give one example, consider if the map Solaris City is chosen and one or more LRM boats are assigned to your team.
It is almost impossible for them to achieve decent war results, and it is not much different than away from keyboard.
Teams are forced to be at a numerical disadvantage from the start. This is not easy to reverse.

It is natural that different maps create weapon advantages and disadvantages. But there is a limit to everything.
Maps like the LRM Boat in Solaris City, which create overwhelming disadvantages that player skill cannot possibly cover, are a problem.

-agree, if only those bulding at solaris city were destroyable (at least to an extend) you know like in Bad Comoany 2 or that mechwarrior trailer from over a decade ago we forgot about.
https://youtu.be/9X5LP4hJu9k

Hell I want that city we see there, it should have been a no brainer.

Edited by simon1812, 06 August 2023 - 03:10 PM.

[Tongo Rad]

Changing spawns would be a welcome change. Current spawns lead to a lot of predictable battles, always in the same spot. More and randomized spawn sites would change the flavor of each game so that fights take place in currently underused portions of each map.

[CrimsonEye]

Alpine Peaks need a full rework , it's used to be great as we are doing 8-12 men drop where
Everyone will follow n well organized. Nowadays? Not anymore. Also need shrink down map size.

Polar highland isn't bad, but again, too huge. Need remove 4-6 column height n 2 column wide.

Please do consider Making map smaller, because it's really bad when we have light runner as a lone survivor
Just dragging the match while heavies n assault much trying to chase it, pretty much time wasting.


As for modes, incursion it's seriously bad, given the current state that players will hardly work together
In majority of encounter, plus it's a mix of assault n conquest mode which is complex n confusing.

Do better, make a much simple n straight forward mode so people can understand n enjoy.

Domination it's quite well, but need minor rework. Often time where is some map where
One side would be greatly disadvantage , so it's better if there's special battle station structure to provide tactical
Benefits n minor coverage , it would definitely make the game more interesting to play instead of blank battle.

[Zac Baran]

C337Skymaster, on 06 August 2023 - 02:16 PM, said:

This isn't actually true, though. I've gotten 700 dmg and a few kills using a Nova Cat-B (LRM 90 and a pair of ERML's) on Solaris City. It requires a team that works together and communicates, and a team that doesn't go into the center of the map. If you get the fight going in one of those wide open areas just outside the center, there's a lot of room for ranged combat where LRMs can participate quite nicely.

So while LRMs are much harder to use on Solaris City, they're not impossible to use, and this is definitely something a skilled player can overcome.

Certainly, I agree that in some cases such good fortune can lead to superior results.
In reality, however, it is not always possible to be blessed with teammates in Quick Play who "communicate and cooperate" and "agree to fight battles outside the center of the map".
Teammates are not obligated to follow the LRM boat's instructions, some allies may prefer to fight in the center, and some players may have chat and VOIP turned off.

Taking all this into account, in what percentage of matches in Solaris City will you have such good luck?
If you ran the statistics over a number of attempts, would the results that LRM boats produce in Solaris City converge to a level that would be overcome compared to other maps?
Certainly I may have overstated the case, but I do not agree with using a few exceptions as examples to disprove the case and to endorse leaving unequal maps.

Edited by Zac Baran, 06 August 2023 - 07:45 PM.

[Mycroft000]

Why isn’t faction play a mode option for the vote?

[Zac Baran]

Regarding the voting on favorite and least favorite maps, it would have been better if you had used the method of selecting some of the maps from among all the maps, instead of selecting one from among the categories (Large, Medium, Small) divided by size.
There were times when we had trouble with more than one map we wanted to vote for in the same category, or vice versa, and we had to choose a different option than what we really wanted to convey.

[ESC 907]

Zac Baran, on 06 August 2023 - 09:08 PM, said:

Regarding the voting on favorite and least favorite maps, it would have been better if you had used the method of selecting some of the maps from among all the maps, instead of selecting one from among the categories (Large, Medium, Small) divided by size.
There were times when we had trouble with more than one map we wanted to vote for in the same category, or vice versa, and we had to choose a different option than what we really wanted to convey.

This is a good idea, IMHO. Frankly, I usually prefer CQC type maps. Maybe others prefer longer range sniping maps? Allowing players to express which type they prefer would allow for a much more accurate polling on which maps are more preferred by the player-base.

Edit: Maybe do a 5-star rating of every map? Five stars for a range of Get-Rid-of-It, Needs Improvement, Okay, Good, and Great?

Edited by ESC 907, 06 August 2023 - 11:10 PM.

[SafeScanner]

Id like to ask what the Devs plan on doing with this information being provided on the opinion poll.

[Itsacon]

In general, I hate certain combinations.

Domination for instance, should not be an option on de maps classified as 'Large'. It just turns them in to small maps where the assaults have to walk for 5 minutes before the game starts. And with the popularity of Domination, that's all most people see of those maps.

But a good skirmish game on Alpine gives so many different strategic options, you get a completely different game each time.

In the same way, the 'Small' maps are mostly made in the time when games were 8v8, and that really shows. I don't know if it's possible to have some quickplay games be 8v8 and others 12v12, but I think that'd be a great improvement. That alone would make Conquest on these maps viable again, I think.

If the game would decide between the three map sizes before offering the map vote (so you get to choose between four maps of the same size), several of these problems would probably be solved in one go.

[feeWAIVER]

Itsacon, on 07 August 2023 - 01:05 AM, said:

In general, I hate certain combinations.

Domination for instance, should not be an option on de maps classified as 'Large'. It just turns them in to small maps where the assaults have to walk for 5 minutes before the game starts.

When assaults start on the opposite sides of any large map, how it it any different in any other game mode?

[Onigato69]

simon1812, on 05 August 2023 - 05:07 AM, said:

Although I agree, the shutdown button does have some useful advantages:

You do cool down faster.
You can ambush enemies that are not paying attention.
Provide a false sense of security in the middle of a fight, very situational, but enemies sometimes move to a different target without confirmation of the kill(too much going on) in one occasion I had no guns, I shutdown in front of the enemy to provide him an easy kill while ignorant of the ally sneaking up on him.

So yeah, it opens to a wide range of interesting situations, I can only wish this game had more features like that...it does but wish there were even more...

Don't forget LRM locks drop at shutdown. You can break line of sight and shut down to keep avoid a LRM storm. Not sure how that works with NARC. It messes with TAG, but they can still dumb-fire with line of sight. It is a helpful trick for slow mechs before you have points to spend in Radar Dep.
I figured this out playing missile mechs when enemies shutdown due to heat and my ATM/LRM/Streak locks drop. Super annoying with Streaks due to the fact they can't dumb-fire.

[An6ryMan69]

Good map characteristics:

Simple to learn
Good visibility
Some cover but not clutter
Reasonable access to all map areas
Does not obviously favor any one type of mech build (ie - brawler)
Cold

Bad map characteristics:

Complex terrain
Poor visibility
Distracting graphics
Clutter
Ambush/backstab friendly
Sniper hides that are also easily defendable once taken
Poor access for mechs without jump jets
Obviously favors one type of mech build
Hot

So maps that stand out as being obviously good is something like Canyon network where even new players learn the map fast, there is cover to hide behind but you are not tripping up on nonsense objects, you can see very well, jump jets are a bit of a bonus but you're not screwed without them, any kind of mech works quite well if you play to your mech's loadout, and basically nobody drops on Canyon and feels they've lost already due to the map.


Bad maps, well, there's more of them than good ones. If you can't see what's going on, or are regularly backstabbed by others who memorized the map more, or your mech is regularly tripping up on clutter, or you can't do much about snipers because you have no jump jets, or the map is clearly littered with anti-missle structures that cripple your LRM mech, or you get sniped to death before you can even reach the enemy with your weapons, or you go from one choke-point ambush to another until you die...well then you are being beaten by the map as much as anything.

[KingCobra]

Here are my thoughts on Maps and Game modes Frost and I have been playing MWO since year 1. First get rid of the voting system for the maps and game modes and just make them RANDOM just like they used to be. I personally can say I like playing all the maps there all excellent and fun to play same with the game modes.

For the last 4-5 years I have been bored out of my mind playing the same few maps every night it has become a joke playing the same maps and hardly ever getting to play the newer maps or ones that you have to use some tactics and teamwork to win the games.

I did not vote because I believe all maps and game modes deserve to be played in MWO not just the ones over and over that players seem to pick.

On the game modes I would ask you remove groups from Solo Quick Play as well it's just to unbalanced and make a 8v8 group only quick play As I would play both game modes all the time as well as faction if you could fix and revive it back to being fun and not just a seal clubbing festival for just a few teams in MWO or put in a bracket system to balance it.

[GeneralDestroyer]

I would like to explain why I love my favourite map and dislike my least favourite.

My absolute favourite maps is Forest colony and here is why.
1. Unlike some of the other large maps its and not just a great open expanse and has a more diverse terrain have open areas for slugfests but also narrower more hidden areas for brawling or flanking.
2. The atmosphere is perfect it is what the name says it is a colony in the forest it doesn't have that baron or industrial feel of the other maps it feels vibrant and personally its great to have a change of scenery
3. Its balanced you can take any sort of mech to the fight and it will feel fair, there is enough open space for larger mechs so it doesn't feel like your trapped and also enough flank routes and smaller hidden areas for small mechs to actually make it to the enemy side with out being either sniped by some gauss boats or bombarded by LRM boats.

Now for my least favourite map Solaris city
1. now I will admit the map is definite not boring by far it is one of the most pretty maps in the whole game but when you play on it its a nightmare you have no breathing room the whole map is a cluttered mess of building and feels more like a maze then a battlefield.
2. there is no balance you better pray you didn't just bring a LRM boat because you will be absolutely screwed get ready to watch as all your missiles to hit a random buildings.
3. It becomes more like a horror game playing this map because you have no idea if there is a dire wolf waiting to jump scare you, and most of the time when you do find someone it just about who has the biggest mech or who shot first as it is way to narrow to try and squeeze any back up and by the time your allies find an alternate route the fight will be over.

Edited by GeneralDestroyer, 07 August 2023 - 04:12 PM.

[SpankyMonky]

Both Thermal and night vision suck.
for thermal go back to the multi colored thermal and for night vision range is way, way, way to short.

Drop configurations need to have ALL the mechs facing the correct direction and not half the team facing the back of the map !


Map: Alpine Peaks
to large of an area to fight in, and the peak of the center mountain needs to either be lowered so mechs can hit whats on top of it, or the top of the mountain needs to be out of bounds.

Map: Forest Colony
one side's drop zone is out in the middle of the water and mechs have to walk for a long distance with out cover to get to any cover. either move the one sides drop zone or make more cover for the mechs to get behind while walking to the battle.

Map: Frozen City
it is too white ! Snow blindness causes no one to be able to see anything. and with the issues with Thermal and night vision it makes for a crappy map. Also with both sides deploying to either side of a wide area with NO cover it makes for a stupid snipe fest and a slow grind just to get to cover. Move the deploy points and add cover in the middle area, and reduce the glare and sun blindness.

Map: Grim Plexus
This is a GREAT MAP ! but on assault mode move the bases back to the deployment areas.

Map: Polar Highlands
when being played on conquest the map is just too large. shrink the sides down a bit.

Map: Solaris City
make the roofs on the taller buildings need to be walled off so they are out of bounds.

Map: Terra Therma
Hot maps are NOT fun ! there are spots that are just too dark for some people. Turn down the heat generation, and lighten up the darker areas just a bit.

Map: Tera Therma Crucible same as Terra Therma... /|\

Map: Tourmaline Desert
block off the top of the crystals so no one can get on top of them.

Map: Caustic Valley
one side has the advantage of being elevated at their spawn point all the way to the middle of the map. on domination the yellow circle is hidden by the yellow of the background colors of the map. just raise the heights of some of the pillars on that side. and change the color of the circle in the UI to something like pink or vibrant orange.

Map: Crimson Strait
No one plays in the open water area making it a huge dead area of the map. add some ships that can be mounted and gives cover for that area.

Map: Emerald Vale
Great map that might be just a bit better with just a few less trees.

Map: HPG Manifold
just add ramps to the outer walls from the inside of the map area 90 degrees out from the ones you already have.

Map: Hellebore Springs
Ramps, Ramps, and more Ramps. if you don't have jump jets your screwed. just put in a lot more ramps all over the map.

Map: Mining Collective
Great Map.

Map: River City
needs more cover in the middle of the map where the water is. add island heights that can block LRMs and add a tunnel that go's under the river from one side to the other. change the bridge by adding extra cover for crossing it. also you can move the dam in from the side and make it able to be crossed with both a top path and a second path inside the dam.

Map : Rubellite Oasis
kind of a large map. Just shrink its size down a LITTLE bit. bring the stuff just a little bit closer together.

Map: Viridan Bog
how about taking out 20% of the lilly pads. so there are just a few more open areas in the bottom. or add a few more trees up top to help with up top cover.

Map: Canyon Network
Good Map.

Map: Ceres metal Scrap Yard
More Ramps. and LOTS more LRM cover. fix the pink texture glitch fixed for radion cards. and too DARK. lighten up the map.

Map: Forest Colony Classic
JUST DELETE THIS MAP !
no longer fit for service. it is way too small/narrow/and had NO cover on most of the map. when you can just snipe the enemy from your starting zone while they are in their starting zone you Need to just delete this map.

Map: Forest Colony Classic Snow. SAME AS ABOVE. /|\ JUST DELETE THIS MAP !

Map: Frozen City Classic
Worst snow blind map of the game. turn down the glare and turn down the sun glare !

Map: Frozen City Classic Night
Great Map.

Map: Hibernal Rift
NOT ENOUGH RAMPS ! give it more ramps. give it more ramps. give it more ramps ! balance the deployment zones with better ramp access. take the deployment zone from out of the ice cave. or open wider the ice cave mouth so that one mech can't block the entrance from other mechs.

Map: Vitric Station
Great Map !

game mode feedback.

Assault mode should never be an option on a large map.

Conquest mode finding the flag locations is virtually impossible. capture points should appear as targets on the screen as well as on the compass.

Incursion take the entire game mode and shift it over to faction play.

skirmish needs a way to find/deal with that last mech that go's off to the edge of the map and shuts down just to extend the map game play time and run out the clock. Fix suggestions = in the last 5 minutes of the map you start shrinking the outer borders of the playable area of the map towards the center of the map. or if its the last mech on a side and that mech shuts down it starts a 60 second timer that doesn't reset if the mech powers up, the timer just pauses while the mech is powered up and does't reset. however the original timer still counts down as originally set up.

Domination Circle on numerous maps needs to have its color changed so it can be seen much better than it is. change the color to something like pink, or bright orange, or with hash marks in those colors. put a colored square (pink/orange) in the regular view screen ie. a pink/orange targeting reticle you can see while fighting/walking. this way you know where the circle is at even if it's outside the mini map area.

[Zac Baran]

ESC 907, on 06 August 2023 - 11:07 PM, said:

This is a good idea, IMHO. Frankly, I usually prefer CQC type maps. Maybe others prefer longer range sniping maps? Allowing players to express which type they prefer would allow for a much more accurate polling on which maps are more preferred by the player-base.

Edit: Maybe do a 5-star rating of every map? Five stars for a range of Get-Rid-of-It, Needs Improvement, Okay, Good, and Great?

I think it is a good idea. I think it will give us a more accurate picture of the impressions players have.
Even in the case of not selecting the same map, there is a world of difference between "there was another map I liked better" and "a defective map I would never select" and the need for improvement changes.

Edited by Zac Baran, 07 August 2023 - 09:55 PM.

[An6ryMan69]

I'm really hoping that PGI takes the poll seriously in terms of game modes.

For the game mode that is the second most hated, Conquest comes up sickeningly often in QP and seems like its almost always the mode used for competition, which can't help at all with populating events...

[Channu]

An6ryMan69, on 08 August 2023 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'm really hoping that PGI takes the poll seriously in terms of game modes.

For the game mode that is the second most hated, Conquest comes up sickeningly often in QP and seems like its almost always the mode used for competition, which can't help at all with populating events...

I highly doubt they will take it seriously. Just look how much changed during the years.
The best business decision decision would be releasing mwo2.