315 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

JumpingHunter, on 25 August 2023 - 05:03 AM, said:

I can understand you, i once saw a truly OG Faction Play group of 6 people (somehow) literally wreck us while other 6 folks barely even participated. And sometimes i see how these groups in QP are actively antagonizing the rest of their team, going on their own route and fighting alone, leaving either themselves or their teammates unprotected and vulnerable. And of course it gives the group members some advantage due to better coordination.

Yet removing ability to play with friends from a multiplayer game is BY FAR too much. Maybe there is a way to balance groups out, maybe by intoducing multiple rounds in one match and them adding an autobalance system to scramble the teams between rounds, maybe even swapping the group of lets say 4 people in one team with 4 different unrelated players in another team, so both teams can benefit or suffer from having a group. But simply REMOVING ability to cooperate with your friends and play game together as a team is just not right. The game wants you to cooperate with your team, yet for some reason you want it to punish those who coordinate too much. There has to be much more sophisticated solution than simply disabling group queue.



Yeah, that's true, matchmaker update would be very apreciated. Most of matches are 12vs2-3 in terms of frags, either wins or loses. that's a sign that it's not right.

yeah groups need their own que, they constantly mess up games in QP and almost always win unless there's another group on the other side. I almost give up if i see a group on the other team, when i drop solo

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 August 2023 - 05:48 AM.

[Steel Shanks]

ShooteyMcShooterson, on 22 August 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

You definitely sound like a miserable f*ck who should go play something else.

Hey Shootey, go F*ck Yerself Sally...

A lot of complaints on the New Weapons all of a sudden... Odd... Who saw that coming? Hmm...

Lockheed_, on 22 August 2023 - 06:21 PM, said:

Maybe TableTop?

I do love Table Top... And HBS BattleTech... I used to love MWO... Sigh...

Rhaelcan, on 22 August 2023 - 09:31 PM, said:

Ok. Go play a different game if you hate this one so much. Mmls could get added at some point, but you don't need to be a pissy baby when they don't add your favorite weapon day one. This game isn't even based off of lore, at all. You realize that, right?

That's the problem Numb-Nuts... I don't give a Rats Fig about MML's, just surprised they weren't added.

This is TOO FAR from the Lore. The game is becoming intolerable...

[Steel Shanks]

martian, on 23 August 2023 - 01:00 AM, said:

Just fancy name for the already existing Hero 'Mechs. Nothing new here.



X-Pulse lasers were in MechWarrior 3, MechWarrior 4 and MechCommander. It is no big surprise that PGI has added those too.

The Mektek's mod of MechWarrior 4 added Blazers too (I think).



Only a small number of people plays Faction Play. For PGI it makes non sense to invest in it too much - big costs, uncertain (read "negligible") returns.



If you say so.



I believe it was Mark Nicholson (or maybe Matt Newman) who said that PGI no longer cares about eras and such things. If a 'Mech has weapons and equipment that are included in MWO, such 'Mech is a fair game, no matter what era it is from.



Your choice.



Because big studios are already queueing to get their hands on this niche IP with a small playerbase.

Martian are You PGI? F*ck off ye Gob-***** lol...

If Era's don't matter, and Lore doesn't matter, than what's the point of the game? If none of it matters, it's not BattleTech / Mechwarrior.... Just call it "Random Robot Game Catered to Knob-Tards Like Martian."

It ceases to be BattleTech, and since this post, people other than Me have been complaining about EXACTLY what I said...
Odd that...

[martian]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 12:18 PM, said:

Martian are You PGI?

No, I am not PGI.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 12:18 PM, said:

F*ck off ye Gob-***** lol...

Nice to meet you.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 12:18 PM, said:

If Era's don't matter, and Lore doesn't matter, than what's the point of the game?

MWO has never been advertised as some accurate simulation of the tabletop BattleTech.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 12:18 PM, said:

If none of it matters, it's not BattleTech / Mechwarrior.... Just call it "Random Robot Game Catered to Knob-Tards Like Martian."

MechWarrior Online: Legends is a tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the vast BattleTech Universe.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 12:18 PM, said:

It ceases to be BattleTech, and since this post, people other than Me have been complaining about EXACTLY what I said...
Odd that...

MWO is based on the BattleTech game, but it is not a 1:1 recreation the desktop game.

[KursedVixen]

after a few days of playing around i think everything is fairly balanced aside from the small binary cannon issue which will be dealt with later, I seriously hope the Hyper gauss is left alone it seems fine and isn't totally OP at every range it's pretty much a Clan RAC as far as range functionality...

[Steel Shanks]

martian, on 25 August 2023 - 12:28 PM, said:

No, I am not PGI.



Nice to meet you.



MWO has never been advertised as some accurate simulation of the tabletop BattleTech.



MechWarrior Online: Legends is a tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the vast BattleTech Universe.



MWO is based on the BattleTech game, but it is not a 1:1 recreation the desktop game.

It's supposedly set in the BattleTech Universe... but isn't BattleTech... Huh? Odd that...

Legendary Mechs wouldn't exist in BattleTech... They're terrible...

Eras count for something in BattleTech...

They could have done Faction Mechs. Specific Mechs built upon the Factions principals of warfare... Would have gotten people more into their factions, more into the lore, etc. With Faction paint jobs, colors, etc. Instead they just do random made up terrible Legendary Mechs...

Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did. Now, now they just want to milk as much money out of the game as possible... and to hell with BattleTech Lore, etc. It no longer matters... Even though they wouldn't even have this game without BattleTech... A little more respect for the very thing that gives them money, would be nice.

[KursedVixen]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

It's supposedly set in the BattleTech Universe... but isn't BattleTech... Huh? Odd that... Legendary Mechs wouldn't exist in BattleTech... They're terrible... Eras count for something in BattleTech... They could have done Faction Mechs. Specific Mechs built upon the Factions principals of warfare... Would have gotten people more into their factions, more into the lore, etc. With Faction paint jobs, colors, etc. Instead they just do random made up terrible Legendary Mechs... Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did. Now, now they just want to milk as much money out of the game as possible... and to hell with BattleTech Lore, etc. It no longer matters... Even though they wouldn't even have this game without BattleTech... A little more respect for the very thing that gives them money, would be nice.

They get their money from Mw5 now...

[Knownswift]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did

No not really on both of these.

There were a myriad of things removed during beta that were board game themed. They all sucked.

This was never a board game simulator to begin with. It's an arena shooter, and the only game mode is team king of the hill.

This game actually pays an incredible amount of homage to the IP. Have a look through the decals sometime or check out some of the straight from the lore hero mechs.

[Void Angel]

Of for the love of stupidity - are we really on this nonsense again? "Oh, the lore! Weapons are missing! tabletop was ToTalLy BalAnCeD! I don't like [thing] it breaks my immersion! PGI is RUINING the game! The ErAs DoN't MaTcH!1 How can I enjoy the gameplay now!? The humanity! Oh, I faint! Battletech, why hast thou forsaken me?"

This game was never an online LARP module for the Mechwarrior campaigns you never ran, and it never will be - as long as the theme is maintained, it's still fine, and still Battletech. If having weapons or variants be "out of era" is a pet peeve for you, that's your prerogateve. I get that, actually - don't start me on the Lord of the Rings movies. But, like the LotR movies were still good movies even though I stronglydisliked certain things about them, MWO stands or falls on its merits, not its slavish adherence to this or that particular piece of game lore. Nor does deviating from the fracking Technical Readouts to partially implement weapon sets (or make Legendary variants) mean that PGI is being "ungrateful." That argument really boils down to "I wanted something different, and to justify getting this upset, I'm going to argue that PGI's actions are morally wrong." That's... ridiculous.

MWO is a solid quality Mechwarrior game; it's in a pretty good balance place right now, disruptions from weapon introduction notwithstanding, and people keep playing it because it is a good game. It's not the bestest game ever, and it let us down on a lot of its initial intent - Faction Warfare comes to mind (I still think they should have hired a game board designer to set up the strategic overgame, and then let match results be like die rolls.) But it's still fun, and it still conveys the feel of Battletech. Pedantic hissy fits over niggling details like total fidelity to "Eras," title case, or 'mech loadouts allegedly being unworkable in an entirely different gaming format are just unreasonable fault-finding in an attempt to justify self-righteous proclamations against game features you dislike.

[Verulean]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

And once again I hear this lie.
And once again I want to say that those who cannot live without playing in a group can play FP, thereby bringing this mode back to life.
And once again, I want to remind you that it was the unbalanced groups that killed the FP.
And once again I want to say that right now groups are killing QP. Groups in QP are a cancer that kills the last live mode in the game.

I really like FP, but the FP population is non-existent in the Australian evenings. I'm just a casual player who likes to drop with friends on Friday and Saturday nights.

I have play FP in my morning TZ to get a match.

[martian]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

It's supposedly set in the BattleTech Universe... but isn't BattleTech... Huh? Odd that...

Surprisingly, previous installments of the MechWarrior series were not accurate 1:1 translations of the desktop BattleTech.

Some time ago I replayed MechWarrior 4. It had:

• weapons and equipment with completely different stats than they have in the desktop BattleTech
  
• many BattleMechs had different stats than they had in the desktop BattleTech of the same period
  
• characters that were mostly not based in BattleTech canon
  
• its plotline followed the BattleTech canon only very loosely
  
• many 'Mechs such as Uziel, Hellspawn, Chimera, etc. were not even in the BattleTech canon when the MW4 was published
  
• something what we could call Hero 'Mechs or Legendary 'Mechs in MechWarrior Online

... and all this was supposed to teach me "the critical elements of BattleTech,"

So please stop pretending that MechWarrior Online is some horrible and never-seen-before abomination.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Legendary Mechs wouldn't exist in BattleTech... They're terrible...
...
Instead they just do random made up terrible Legendary Mechs...

Pardon? The desktop BattleTech canon offers dozens of unique Hero / Legendary 'Mechs:

• Devlin Stone's Atlas II
  
• Cameron St.Jamais' Awesome
  
• Precentor Dantalion's Albatross
  
• Anne McCormack's Emperor
  
• etc.

And do you know what? Many such BattleTech Hero / Legendary 'Mechs are terrible.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Eras count for something in BattleTech...

Yes? For what?

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

They could have done Faction Mechs. Specific Mechs built upon the Factions principals of warfare...

And who would play for a faction having 'Mechs and equipment worse than some other faction offer?

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Would have gotten people more into their factions, more into the lore, etc. With Faction paint jobs, colors, etc.

PGI offers appropriate faction livery patterns for IS and Clan 'Mechs. It also offers appropriate faction colours. It also offers appropriate faction insignia.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did. and to hell with BattleTech Lore, etc. It no longer matters... Even though they wouldn't even have this game without BattleTech... A little more respect for the very thing that gives them money, would be nice.

Sorry, that train departed a long time ago. Also, some things that work in the desktop game do not work (or are irrelevant) in the online FPS shooter.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Now, now they just want to milk as much money out of the game as possible...

The purpose of a business is to make money. That is the reason why people founding business companies and selling some product.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 25 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

The purpose of a business is to make money. That is the reason why people founding business companies and selling some product.

yes well a long time ago buisnesses made money by making quality products not constant releases of the same game with minor tweaks (Fifa COD) or making a sub par product to 'fix' later...

[crazytimes]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

They could have done Faction Mechs. Specific Mechs built upon the Factions principals of warfare... Would have gotten people more into their factions, more into the lore, etc. With Faction paint jobs, colors, etc. Instead they just do random made up terrible Legendary Mechs...

Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did. Now, now they just want to milk as much money out of the game as possible... and to hell with BattleTech Lore, etc. It no longer matters... Even though they wouldn't even have this game without BattleTech... A little more respect for the very thing that gives them money, would be nice.

Locking content behind lore based mechanics would be a stupid business decision. I've played a number of F2P games and what MWO lacks in population and endgame, it makes up for in a current lack of silly mechanics and paywalls. Free loot boxes, generous economy, and dumping silly lore based mechanics in favour of smoother and more accessible gameplay.

Play tabletop of you want tabletop. Play modded HBS Battletech if you want close to digital tabletop.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 26 August 2023 - 01:24 AM, said:

yes well a long time ago buisnesses made money by making quality products not constant releases of the same game with minor tweaks (Fifa COD) or making a sub par product to 'fix' later...

The only relevant thing is if the customers are spending their money.

[KursedVixen]

crazytimes, on 26 August 2023 - 01:31 AM, said:

Locking content behind lore based mechanics would be a stupid business decision. I've played a number of F2P games and what MWO lacks in population and endgame, it makes up for in a current lack of silly mechanics and paywalls. Free loot boxes, generous economy, and dumping silly lore based mechanics in favour of smoother and more accessible gameplay.

Play tabletop of you want tabletop. Play modded HBS Battletech if you want close to digital tabletop.

PGi pretty much stuck to lore until the roughneck as far as FPS game can go.

[Void Angel]

There's a bit of mental gymnastics there, Vixen. Yes, the Roughneck was the first 'mech that they (with approval, mind you,) made which was fully non-canon - but the difference between adding new 'mechs to Battletech and deviating from 'mech and equipment stats isn't great. But the theme is still present, and the game world (such as it is in a match shooter with few RPG and no story elements) still maintains its fidelity. The 'mechs, weapons, and design themes (heat limitation, etc,) are all present; there have been changes, but really just for the sake of balance.

But the canon train left the platform a long, long time ago - almost as long as that limerick in your signature has been around.

[Staude Coston]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

And once again I hear this lie.
And once again I want to say that those who cannot live without playing in a group can play FP, thereby bringing this mode back to life.
And once again, I want to remind you that it was the unbalanced groups that killed the FP.
And once again I want to say that right now groups are killing QP. Groups in QP are a cancer that kills the last live mode in the game.

absolutely right
groups do not belong in the QP
But FP lives from the group game
You can't blame any group for being at fault for the state in the FP
FP is and should be a group game
The problem is that there are too few players you meet in FP

it is less important to win than to have a balanced game
No group harmed FP as that's what it was made for
I should know as a player what I'm getting into when I go to FP without having a group



​

[C337Skymaster]

martian, on 25 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

And who would play for a faction having 'Mechs and equipment worse than some other faction offer?

So this part, I feel, actually could have been worked out in a workable fashion. There are enough different weapons and pieces of equipment that were unique to a faction, and enough that were universal, that it would have added flavor to each faction without being totally ruinous. About the only piece of Tech that I can think of that people might have complained about it being locked to a specific faction is Capellan Stealth Armor. Everything else would have just been the flavor of the faction. (And Stealth Armor is really only different from ECM up close, inside where you would otherwise be able to detect an ECM 'mech).

RACs are Davion
Stealth Armor is Capellan
Heavy and Light PPCs, and MMLs are Kuritan
Light Gauss is Marik
Heavy Gauss is Steiner (as is the Fafnir)
Rasalhague gets Steiner and Kuritan hand-me-downs (so one faction has access to chassis' unique to both factions, without getting the latest and greatest weapons from either).
Light Armor is credited all over the place. In one reference it's FedCom, and in another it's Kuritan, so who knows where that one actually gets assigned.

Heavy Lasers are supposedly Crusader, while ATMs are Warden Tech. (Star Adder and Coyote, respectively, so not factions we have available, but proliferated within those two political spheres of influence, at least).

It would have added a lot more flavor to the game, having unique tech trees for each individual faction, kinda like Age of Empires II has some things that are common across all the factions (Militia, Villagers, Knights, Mangonels) and some things that are unique to just a few factions, or an individual one (Paladins, Champions, Longbowmen, Throwing Axemen, etc).

Would it have been an additional balance headache? Yeah, probably. But would it have added even more flavor to the game, and more reason to pick and choose between the factions, and declare loyalty, and work for the betterment of your specific faction? Heck yeah!

[martian]

C337Skymaster, on 26 August 2023 - 07:04 PM, said:

So this part, I feel, actually could have been worked out in a workable fashion. There are enough different weapons and pieces of equipment that were unique to a faction, and enough that were universal, that it would have added flavor to each faction without being totally ruinous.
....

Sorry, it would not work.

RACs are less than optimal weapon and nobody would be too eager to join a faction offering them as some exclusive faction reward. Usually, standard GR is better in the most situations than LGR, so there goes the Marik faction. Etc.
Eventually, the majority of players would settle in the faction offering the best combination of weapons, 'Mechs and equipment.

Ditto for the Clan weapons such as Heavy lasers and ATMs.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 26 August 2023 - 11:56 PM, said:

Sorry, it would not work.

RACs are less than optimal weapon and nobody would be too eager to join a faction offering them as some exclusive faction reward. Usually, standard GR is better in the most situations than LGR, so there goes the Marik faction. Etc.
Eventually, the majority of players would settle in the faction offering the best combination of weapons, 'Mechs and equipment.

Ditto for the Clan weapons such as Heavy lasers and ATMs.

It would really be limited for clans due to how widespread development of each weapon is not to mention mechs.... for example you'd be limited to the dire timber fenris and no light for clan Wolf...