325 replies to this topic

[martian]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

It's supposedly set in the BattleTech Universe... but isn't BattleTech... Huh? Odd that...

Surprisingly, previous installments of the MechWarrior series were not accurate 1:1 translations of the desktop BattleTech.

Some time ago I replayed MechWarrior 4. It had:

• weapons and equipment with completely different stats than they have in the desktop BattleTech
  
• many BattleMechs had different stats than they had in the desktop BattleTech of the same period
  
• characters that were mostly not based in BattleTech canon
  
• its plotline followed the BattleTech canon only very loosely
  
• many 'Mechs such as Uziel, Hellspawn, Chimera, etc. were not even in the BattleTech canon when the MW4 was published
  
• something what we could call Hero 'Mechs or Legendary 'Mechs in MechWarrior Online

... and all this was supposed to teach me "the critical elements of BattleTech,"

So please stop pretending that MechWarrior Online is some horrible and never-seen-before abomination.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Legendary Mechs wouldn't exist in BattleTech... They're terrible...
...
Instead they just do random made up terrible Legendary Mechs...

Pardon? The desktop BattleTech canon offers dozens of unique Hero / Legendary 'Mechs:

• Devlin Stone's Atlas II
  
• Cameron St.Jamais' Awesome
  
• Precentor Dantalion's Albatross
  
• Anne McCormack's Emperor
  
• etc.

And do you know what? Many such BattleTech Hero / Legendary 'Mechs are terrible.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Eras count for something in BattleTech...

Yes? For what?

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

They could have done Faction Mechs. Specific Mechs built upon the Factions principals of warfare...

And who would play for a faction having 'Mechs and equipment worse than some other faction offer?

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Would have gotten people more into their factions, more into the lore, etc. With Faction paint jobs, colors, etc.

PGI offers appropriate faction livery patterns for IS and Clan 'Mechs. It also offers appropriate faction colours. It also offers appropriate faction insignia.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did. and to hell with BattleTech Lore, etc. It no longer matters... Even though they wouldn't even have this game without BattleTech... A little more respect for the very thing that gives them money, would be nice.

Sorry, that train departed a long time ago. Also, some things that work in the desktop game do not work (or are irrelevant) in the online FPS shooter.

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Now, now they just want to milk as much money out of the game as possible...

The purpose of a business is to make money. That is the reason why people founding business companies and selling some product.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 25 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

The purpose of a business is to make money. That is the reason why people founding business companies and selling some product.

yes well a long time ago buisnesses made money by making quality products not constant releases of the same game with minor tweaks (Fifa COD) or making a sub par product to 'fix' later...

[crazytimes]

Steel Shanks, on 25 August 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

They could have done Faction Mechs. Specific Mechs built upon the Factions principals of warfare... Would have gotten people more into their factions, more into the lore, etc. With Faction paint jobs, colors, etc. Instead they just do random made up terrible Legendary Mechs...

Point is, PGI used to stick a little closer to BattleTech, and it was a better game when they did. Now, now they just want to milk as much money out of the game as possible... and to hell with BattleTech Lore, etc. It no longer matters... Even though they wouldn't even have this game without BattleTech... A little more respect for the very thing that gives them money, would be nice.

Locking content behind lore based mechanics would be a stupid business decision. I've played a number of F2P games and what MWO lacks in population and endgame, it makes up for in a current lack of silly mechanics and paywalls. Free loot boxes, generous economy, and dumping silly lore based mechanics in favour of smoother and more accessible gameplay.

Play tabletop of you want tabletop. Play modded HBS Battletech if you want close to digital tabletop.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 26 August 2023 - 01:24 AM, said:

yes well a long time ago buisnesses made money by making quality products not constant releases of the same game with minor tweaks (Fifa COD) or making a sub par product to 'fix' later...

The only relevant thing is if the customers are spending their money.

[KursedVixen]

crazytimes, on 26 August 2023 - 01:31 AM, said:

Locking content behind lore based mechanics would be a stupid business decision. I've played a number of F2P games and what MWO lacks in population and endgame, it makes up for in a current lack of silly mechanics and paywalls. Free loot boxes, generous economy, and dumping silly lore based mechanics in favour of smoother and more accessible gameplay.

Play tabletop of you want tabletop. Play modded HBS Battletech if you want close to digital tabletop.

PGi pretty much stuck to lore until the roughneck as far as FPS game can go.

[Void Angel]

There's a bit of mental gymnastics there, Vixen. Yes, the Roughneck was the first 'mech that they (with approval, mind you,) made which was fully non-canon - but the difference between adding new 'mechs to Battletech and deviating from 'mech and equipment stats isn't great. But the theme is still present, and the game world (such as it is in a match shooter with few RPG and no story elements) still maintains its fidelity. The 'mechs, weapons, and design themes (heat limitation, etc,) are all present; there have been changes, but really just for the sake of balance.

But the canon train left the platform a long, long time ago - almost as long as that limerick in your signature has been around.

[Staude Coston]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

And once again I hear this lie.
And once again I want to say that those who cannot live without playing in a group can play FP, thereby bringing this mode back to life.
And once again, I want to remind you that it was the unbalanced groups that killed the FP.
And once again I want to say that right now groups are killing QP. Groups in QP are a cancer that kills the last live mode in the game.

absolutely right
groups do not belong in the QP
But FP lives from the group game
You can't blame any group for being at fault for the state in the FP
FP is and should be a group game
The problem is that there are too few players you meet in FP

it is less important to win than to have a balanced game
No group harmed FP as that's what it was made for
I should know as a player what I'm getting into when I go to FP without having a group



​

[C337Skymaster]

martian, on 25 August 2023 - 11:24 PM, said:

And who would play for a faction having 'Mechs and equipment worse than some other faction offer?

So this part, I feel, actually could have been worked out in a workable fashion. There are enough different weapons and pieces of equipment that were unique to a faction, and enough that were universal, that it would have added flavor to each faction without being totally ruinous. About the only piece of Tech that I can think of that people might have complained about it being locked to a specific faction is Capellan Stealth Armor. Everything else would have just been the flavor of the faction. (And Stealth Armor is really only different from ECM up close, inside where you would otherwise be able to detect an ECM 'mech).

RACs are Davion
Stealth Armor is Capellan
Heavy and Light PPCs, and MMLs are Kuritan
Light Gauss is Marik
Heavy Gauss is Steiner (as is the Fafnir)
Rasalhague gets Steiner and Kuritan hand-me-downs (so one faction has access to chassis' unique to both factions, without getting the latest and greatest weapons from either).
Light Armor is credited all over the place. In one reference it's FedCom, and in another it's Kuritan, so who knows where that one actually gets assigned.

Heavy Lasers are supposedly Crusader, while ATMs are Warden Tech. (Star Adder and Coyote, respectively, so not factions we have available, but proliferated within those two political spheres of influence, at least).

It would have added a lot more flavor to the game, having unique tech trees for each individual faction, kinda like Age of Empires II has some things that are common across all the factions (Militia, Villagers, Knights, Mangonels) and some things that are unique to just a few factions, or an individual one (Paladins, Champions, Longbowmen, Throwing Axemen, etc).

Would it have been an additional balance headache? Yeah, probably. But would it have added even more flavor to the game, and more reason to pick and choose between the factions, and declare loyalty, and work for the betterment of your specific faction? Heck yeah!

[martian]

C337Skymaster, on 26 August 2023 - 07:04 PM, said:

So this part, I feel, actually could have been worked out in a workable fashion. There are enough different weapons and pieces of equipment that were unique to a faction, and enough that were universal, that it would have added flavor to each faction without being totally ruinous.
....

Sorry, it would not work.

RACs are less than optimal weapon and nobody would be too eager to join a faction offering them as some exclusive faction reward. Usually, standard GR is better in the most situations than LGR, so there goes the Marik faction. Etc.
Eventually, the majority of players would settle in the faction offering the best combination of weapons, 'Mechs and equipment.

Ditto for the Clan weapons such as Heavy lasers and ATMs.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 26 August 2023 - 11:56 PM, said:

Sorry, it would not work.

RACs are less than optimal weapon and nobody would be too eager to join a faction offering them as some exclusive faction reward. Usually, standard GR is better in the most situations than LGR, so there goes the Marik faction. Etc.
Eventually, the majority of players would settle in the faction offering the best combination of weapons, 'Mechs and equipment.

Ditto for the Clan weapons such as Heavy lasers and ATMs.

It would really be limited for clans due to how widespread development of each weapon is not to mention mechs.... for example you'd be limited to the dire timber fenris and no light for clan Wolf...

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 06:01 AM, said:

It would really be limited for clans due to how widespread development of each weapon is not to mention mechs.... for example you'd be limited to the dire timber fenris and no light for clan Wolf...

So you wouldn't be limited to those if you played Wolf, but you'd have an easier time getting access to them, because they're locally manufactured. For example, the Nova was fairly evenly distributed amongst the Clans, but ever so slightly more common in Wolf than the others. Certain things, though, like the -S variants of the Timber and Dire Wolf, were both Clan Wolf creations to address urban combat against the Inner Sphere during the invasion.

Other 'mechs, though, like the Night Gyr, Black Lanner, and Cougar, were unique to Clan Jade Falcon, and would only be found there. Kodiak would be unique to Ghost Bear, as would the Stormcrow-C variant, Warhawk and Ebon Jaguar would be unique to Smoke Jaguar, etc.

But at least the prime variants of things like the Gargoyle, Hellbringer, Mad Dog, Stormcrow, Nova, Adder, Kit Fox, Mist Lynx, would be available across the board without restriction (and probably more, besides).

[smokefield]

Quote

No group harmed FP as that's what it was made for

i beg to differ .. builds were nerfed because of groups in FP.

the problem is that FP does not offer what it should offer. anyone remembers NBT ? that is what FP should be, but it is too much to ask from current devs, so what they did - just another mod, another variation of QP with different objectives...

Edited by smokefield, 27 August 2023 - 07:47 AM.

[KursedVixen]

and nobody noticed a couple patches ago they made AMS worthless now you get no reward for shooting down missiles.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

and nobody noticed a couple patches ago they made AMS worthless now you get no reward for shooting down missiles.

You are wrong: You have not noticed. Some other players noticed.

Also, even though destroyed missiles no longer count towards your match score, AMS still protects your 'Mech. Specifically, Clan AMS weighs just ¹/₂ ton and needs just ¹/₂ ammo. All in all, just one ton total.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 27 August 2023 - 08:33 AM, said:

You are wrong: You have not noticed. Some other players noticed.

Also, even though destroyed missiles no longer count towards your match score, AMS still protects your 'Mech. Specifically, Clan AMS weighs just ¹/₂ ton and needs just ¹/₂ ammo. All in all, just one ton total.

fine next time i won't try to bring something to attention that severly effected the game... I'll remember that.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 08:41 AM, said:

fine next time i won't try to bring something to attention that severly effected the game... I'll remember that.

LOL

The next time do not say "nobody noticed", but "I have not noticed".

Of course, anybody - you included - is free to equip AMS any time he wishes. AMS still serves its purpose of destroying enemy missiles, it still needs the same tonnage, etc. So what "worthless AMS" are you talking about?

And that it no longer counts towards the match score and PSR? I can not see a problem here: AMS works automatically and does not require pilot's input. Thus, there is no reason why destroyed missiles should be counted towards the pilot skill rating.

PGI talked about earning C-Bills for destroyed missiles, but I have never cared about it, so I do not know if such change has been actually implemented.

[Knownswift]

KursedVixen, on 27 August 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

and nobody noticed a couple patches ago they made AMS worthless now you get no reward for shooting down missiles.

This was actually a much needed and really good change.

AMS score inflation can easily push someone up in tier without an associated skill check. This is bad. Your average Tier 5 pilot that loves the corsair doesn't need to get moved up for a passive counter. Thats ridic.

AFAIK, you still get a cbill bonus.

[KursedVixen]

Knownswift, on 27 August 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

This was actually a much needed and really good change.

AMS score inflation can easily push someone up in tier without an associated skill check. This is bad. Your average Tier 5 pilot that loves the corsair doesn't need to get moved up for a passive counter. Thats ridic.

AFAIK, you still get a cbill bonus.

then they should learn that they no longer need AMS in the higher tiers.... but this really does not incetivise teamwork of sharing the AMS.

[Mc Wolf]

just what we need... more alpha capacity (joking)
just wait until somebody makes some 140-150 alpha, 0 ghost heat builds with them.

[KursedVixen]

Mc Wolf, on 27 August 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

just what we need... more alpha capacity (joking)
just wait until somebody makes some 140-150 alpha, 0 ghost heat builds with them.

which gun you talking about even the hag 40 can only do 80 max. you can only fire 2 at a time being gauss. even the gauszzilla cary 4 30's can only do 60 per shot.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 August 2023 - 11:31 PM.