90 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

pbiggz, on 25 August 2023 - 08:24 AM, said:

The weapons went in 3 days ago. You are seeing them more often because people are trying them. Hell, im seeing large X pulses almost every match and they are objectively dogshit. Does that mean they need a nerf? No, it means people are trying them out. HAGs will settle out. Blazers are slightly overperforming on like, a couple of very slow assault mechs that can still boat them with the higher HSL (they are hot, even without ghost heat), and medium X pulses are about the only x pulse worth taking, smalls are niche and larges are anemic. HAGs have high theoretical damage but are very tricky to aim. Like MRMs, you can just walk out of the stream and the HAG user whiffs half his volley. I dont know why you guys are so determined to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

because it's clan tech and clans can NEVER have weapons that work well.

[pbiggz]

An6ryMan69, on 25 August 2023 - 08:42 AM, said:

I agree with you on the novelty of the new weapons, and both the X-Pulse and the BLaser positions you have, and I specifically tried the Stalker build and find it pretty meh, due to heat.

However right now HAGs are pretty much re-writing clan ballistic builds and it isn't a power creep, its a really big jump ahead of the competition. Whether its a Jenner with HAG40 or a Veagle with HAG20x2, or a Dire Wolf with HAG30x2 and HAG20x2 and 9.5 tons of ammo, we're talking about a seismic shift in ballistics in this game right now as far as I can tell. Anyway, just my opinion.

Worst case, thats not a bad thing, clan ballistics have been underrepresented for ages. Clans havent had a new ballistic toy I think ever? For that reason, I think you're seeing people test out new builds in greater numbers than you'll see in a month. Other than the obvious change to Blazer HSL, i would say now is the time to wait and see how the weapons behave and make changes after that.

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

because it's clan tech and clans can NEVER have weapons that work well.

Bro clans have the best laservom in the game bar none. You cannot honestly say clans have bad weapons.

[KursedVixen]

pbiggz, on 25 August 2023 - 08:52 AM, said:

Worst case, thats not a bad thing, clan ballistics have been underrepresented for ages. Clans havent had a new ballistic toy I think ever? For that reason, I think you're seeing people test out new builds in greater numbers than you'll see in a month. Other than the obvious change to Blazer HSL, i would say now is the time to wait and see how the weapons behave and make changes after that.



Bro clans have the best laservom in the game bar none. You cannot honestly say clans have bad weapons.

and yet right here you say clan ballstics are not good.....

[pbiggz]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 09:05 AM, said:

and yet right here you say clan ballstics are not good.....

Is laservomit ballistic?

[TheCaptainJZ]

Ragedog4, on 23 August 2023 - 04:03 PM, said:

I do not want a big nerf on HAGs because they are REALLY fun, however the power does need to be addressed. I'm thinking if we just spread out the time each pellet is fired after the other (the time between the first to the last pellet from each HAG fired) that might give a good balance without removing the fun and useful weapon it is showing to be.

Seems fair to me. Maybe 0.1 second between pellets? Makes it just a little harder to hit fast targets. HAG is fast and powerful and absolutely rips things to shreds in very little time when on target.

[pbiggz]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 August 2023 - 09:30 AM, said:

Seems fair to me. Maybe 0.1 second between pellets? Makes it just a little harder to hit fast targets. HAG is fast and powerful and absolutely rips things to shreds in very little time when on target.

When. On. Target.

They are like MRMs. High theoretical alpha, but unless you catch your target at just the right time, you are not landing every round in the burst. It is already very difficult to hit fast targets.

[KursedVixen]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 August 2023 - 09:30 AM, said:

Seems fair to me. Maybe 0.1 second between pellets? Makes it just a little harder to hit fast targets. HAG is fast and powerful and absolutely rips things to shreds in very little time when on target.

again how about just leaving them as is, have you even tried them? have you tried to hit a locust that's spinning around you Mgs and small pulse hitting your legs or are you just one of the few who jump on the bandwagon of, "new weapons bad" ? LBx 20 is more effective i think.

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 August 2023 - 10:03 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 10:02 AM, said:

or are you just one of the few who jump on the bandwagon of, "new weapons bad" ?

Ok, fair enough. I can only speak from being on the receiving end in a few matches. In particular from a Guasszilla. Those things are deadly, even at 800m or whatever where there is spread. To be fair, I'm not a fan of any of the power creep we've had in this game going back years. But whatever. It is what it is.

[KursedVixen]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 August 2023 - 10:44 AM, said:

Ok, fair enough. I can only speak from being on the receiving end in a few matches. In particular from a Guasszilla. Those things are deadly, even at 800m or whatever where there is spread. To be fair, I'm not a fan of any of the power creep we've had in this game going back years. But whatever. It is what it is.

and you had no problems with gausszilla when it had 4 gauss?


Clans finnnally get a weapon close to Tabletop more so than any other weapon after the clans got their major nerf after they first dropped and everyone is all OH NERF CLAN NERF CLAN i'm honestly tired of it.

Atm's should have had 0 meter range with maybe longer cooldown but NOOo

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 August 2023 - 10:54 AM.

[Ragedog4]

Vxheous, on 25 August 2023 - 02:25 AM, said:

The spread on them makes shooting anything smaller than a heavy at range miss half the pellets.

This is why I felt we should keep the spread it has and instead very slightly increase the bullet distance between each shot from first to last. It still hits but with the very slight duration lag it makes moving targets take less and stand still targets (like snipers) take more at distance.

[pbiggz]

Ragedog4, on 25 August 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

This is why I felt we should keep the spread it has and instead very slightly increase the bullet distance between each shot from first to last. It still hits but with the very slight duration lag it makes moving targets take less and stand still targets (like snipers) take more at distance.

They are already hard to strike moving targets with. You're proposing a nerf for a weapon that does not need the nerf.

[Ragedog4]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 August 2023 - 09:30 AM, said:

Seems fair to me. Maybe 0.1 second between pellets? Makes it just a little harder to hit fast targets. HAG is fast and powerful and absolutely rips things to shreds in very little time when on target.

this is exactly what I was thinking, something HELLA low ball nerf. Something to make it still fun without punishing too much.

[Ragedog4]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 10:02 AM, said:

again how about just leaving them as is, have you even tried them? have you tried to hit a locust that's spinning around you Mgs and small pulse hitting your legs or are you just one of the few who jump on the bandwagon of, "new weapons bad" ? LBx 20 is more effective i think.

ive been playing them 90% of the time (the other 10% on bi-laz) and I and my clan plays Clan Mechs and tech a lot. Out of us all (10 who have played most) who have been trying them out we def see a major boost in damage in all our weight class mechs. we LOVE them, but we understand the need for balance. So a little tiny nerf like TheCaptainJZ mentioned is exactly what I am meaning by tiny nerf.

[KursedVixen]

Ragedog4, on 25 August 2023 - 12:03 PM, said:

ive been playing them 90% of the time (the other 10% on bi-laz) and I and my clan plays Clan Mechs and tech a lot. Out of us all (10 who have played most) who have been trying them out we def see a major boost in damage in all our weight class mechs. we LOVE them, but we understand the need for balance. So a little tiny nerf like TheCaptainJZ mentioned is exactly what I am meaning by tiny nerf.

HOW ABOUT NOT

Ragedog4, on 25 August 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

This is why I felt we should keep the spread it has and instead very slightly increase the bullet distance between each shot from first to last. It still hits but with the very slight duration lag it makes moving targets take less and stand still targets (like snipers) take more at distance.

So you want them to hit LESS!?!?

[Ragedog4]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 12:10 PM, said:

HOW ABOUT NOT

So you want them to hit LESS!?!?

Lit we have no issue hitting our targets from close to far range, big to small. We have players from the bottom to the top. They are a very easy weapon to play. They do show higher power then other weapons and like I said a tiny nerf to balance things, and it would only hit a tiny less at max range, such a small change would do nothing at closer ranges.

We are comparing it to everything as a whole from the perspective of us all LOVING the HAG as our fav weapon. We want to enjoy the HAG and make sure its balanced instead of being overpowered and then let PGI go OVERBOARD, like they have in the past, and nerf it so its unplayable.

Edited by Ragedog4, 25 August 2023 - 01:00 PM.

[LordNothing]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 06:10 AM, said:

you forgot the heavy gauss which is almost the exact equivilent to the HAG

the hgauss is a short range ppfld weapon. its not even in the same boat.

[LordNothing]

Vxheous, on 25 August 2023 - 02:25 AM, said:

The spread on them makes shooting anything smaller than a heavy at range miss half the pellets.

im inclined to agree with the "they are fine" sentiment. spread just seems tighter than rac, probibly an artifact of its longer range and higher velocity.

[Cyborne Elemental]

HAGs are like high velocity long range LBX, The only thing keeping them in check balance wise is that spread.

They also produce a decent amount of heat, so combo with laser vomit can still high alpha, you just need a cooling down period more often.

Now the real question..
Are standard Gauss and other Clan Ballistics still viable now that HAG can fill all roles better than standard ballistics?

[Baba Yogi]

ok here's few things to consider about HAG. Even though they do alot of damage overall, damage is spread out. 800m isnt its effective range as you'll miss significant amount of shots at that range against even a standing target, and definately spread the damage. Its more around 400-500m weapon. Now, the second part which is important but it gets left out. The explosion, is deadly. Even the smallest one deals 20 dmg, and 30-40 internal damage is giant chunk of your internal hp, if it doesnt outright kill the ST. Thirdly, they are so large, even in clan mechs it is hard to find space to mount them. And even though they are ballistic they are not exactly heat neutral, so combining them with lasers require a lot of heat sinks which require space you barely have.

So they are powerful, but there are alot of big negatives to them as well. Frankly, im not so sure if HAG20 is equal to UAC10s, even though weight and heat stats seem similar.

[foamyesque]

Cyborne Elemental, on 25 August 2023 - 02:12 PM, said:

Are standard Gauss and other Clan Ballistics still viable now that HAG can fill all roles better than standard ballistics?

Standard cGauss I'm sure will keep a role as a 'everything hits the same component' specialist, plus it's ice-cold so has lots of spare heat room for supplemental guns. Lighter UACs and LBXes will stick around for reasons of tonnage / HSL / immediate fire as well, I think.

The 20s... I dunno. You can't snapshot a HAG like you can a 20, but the windup isn't that long. Dual UAC20s still beats dual HAG30s damage-wise but the HAGs don't eat the ghost heat and so have less facetime required (and probably tighter clustering). LBX20s probably stick around because they're cooler, can be dual-fired, and have zero delay so you can just smack someone with 'em.

Edited by foamyesque, 25 August 2023 - 02:34 PM.