49 replies to this topic

[Tectonix]

The Hsl bug is a major issue and should be fixed.

The binary has replaced the large laser.
It has the same damage, range, heat, and slots as 2 large lasers, but less tonnage. So why use large lasers anymore?

Even if you have a machine with a lot of laser slots, the IS large laser is out of the question. You can simply change the weapon to Blc and save 2 tons in the same slot.

The cooldown and duration are meaningless as they can be negated by mech skills.

If we ignored Lore's settings and implemented the BLC, the damage should be 16 points, the same as the Clan Heavy Large Laser.
Otherwise, the weight should have been modified to 10 tons.

Even light mechs are being pushed to put BLCs on them, and at this point, a higher tonnage mech isn't even worth picking up a Large Laser...

We need to rebalance the weapon performance. I think they made the large lasers stupid.

They should be complementary weapons with strengths and weaknesses, not super-compatible...

The bigger issue is that the clan HAG is effectively replacing the UAC, but looking at the forums I think a lot of people are aware of the problem, so I won't mention it because it's off topic.

[Meep Meep]

I'd take this thread more seriously if this didn't exist with zero complains from the usual suspects.

inc-2

Or this.

cou-e

Or this.

jr7-iic-2

Clan have been doing this for ages but now that IS gets something similar its suddenly op?

Nah. I'd say the heat from three blazers is already too much for IS mechs to comfortably handle unless its a heavy or assault because only they have enough tons and slots to boat enough sinks.

Clan lights do that by reflex...

Edited by Meep Meep, 26 August 2023 - 04:15 AM.

[Curccu]

Tectonix, on 24 August 2023 - 07:46 PM, said:

The Hsl bug is a major issue and should be fixed.

The binary has replaced the large laser.
It has the same damage, range, heat, and slots as 2 large lasers, but less tonnage. So why use large lasers anymore?

Even if you have a machine with a lot of laser slots, the IS large laser is out of the question. You can simply change the weapon to Blc and save 2 tons in the same slot.

The cooldown and duration are meaningless as they can be negated by mech skills.

If we ignored Lore's settings and implemented the BLC, the damage should be 16 points, the same as the Clan Heavy Large Laser.
Otherwise, the weight should have been modified to 10 tons.

Even light mechs are being pushed to put BLCs on them, and at this point, a higher tonnage mech isn't even worth picking up a Large Laser...

We need to rebalance the weapon performance. I think they made the large lasers stupid.

They should be complementary weapons with strengths and weaknesses, not super-compatible...

You only save 1 ton not 2 and for that IMO worse CD and Duration are ok tradeoff, mech skills affect normal LL also.

And like Meep meep mentioned haven't seen IS 30 tonners wielding two of them so far... it is possible sdr-5d but well not very good I'm afraid.

[Tectonix]

Curccu, on 24 August 2023 - 09:47 PM, said:

You only save 1 ton not 2 and for that IMO worse CD and Duration are ok tradeoff, mech skills affect normal LL also.

And like Meep meep mentioned haven't seen IS 30 tonners wielding two of them so far... it is possible sdr-5d but well not very good I'm afraid.

When loading four large lasers up to the maximum allowable HSL criteria, the BLC can save two tons while maintaining the same heat output, slots, and damage.

The heavier the machine, the more the Binary Laser Cannon completely replaces the IS...

I hope this gets balanced soon, using large lasers when you have a BLC is completely stupid.

Edited by Tectonix, 24 August 2023 - 11:25 PM.

[Curccu]

Tectonix, on 24 August 2023 - 11:22 PM, said:

I hope this gets balanced soon, using large lasers when you have a BLC is completely stupid.

Using large lasers prior BLC release was already stupid without some good quirks fit for them. Maybe LL needs buff?

[Wraith 1]

Curccu, on 24 August 2023 - 11:47 PM, said:

I have wondered recently if dropping them to 0.9s like the IS ML would be too much. It would further highlight the biggest advantage the LL currently has over the BLC, and maybe even make it worth considering on tonnage-starved lights. Maybe powercreeping laservomit even more isn't the best possible option, but the C-HLL is already a thing, so...

[Curccu]

Wraith 1, on 25 August 2023 - 12:00 AM, said:

I have wondered recently if dropping them to 0.9s like the IS ML would be too much. It would further highlight the biggest advantage the LL currently has over the BLC, and maybe even make it worth considering on tonnage-starved lights. Maybe powercreeping laservomit even more isn't the best possible option, but the C-HLL is already a thing, so...

Yep clan vomit is what it is thats why I have hard time seein BLC OP or even game changing.

But yes I agree that LL and probably ML also could use some buff to have more reason to use those instead of ER models, right now that massive extra range just outweighs small heat/cd/duration difference for me at least.

[Tectonix]

Curccu, on 24 August 2023 - 11:47 PM, said:

Using large lasers prior BLC release was already stupid without some good quirks fit for them. Maybe LL needs buff?

If we buff LL, we'd have to buff erll as well, which would make it indistinguishable from clan tech.
Should we do HSL-1 instead of improving damage?
You are correct to adjust BLC.
BLC and LL should have distinct advantages and disadvantages so that you can choose between them.

[Luckless Horn]

The new weapon has been out for single digit days, perhaps it's way too early to declare other weapons systems as completely obsolete?

We're still in the phase where people are preferentially using the new weapons because of the novelty and to find out what they can do. Time will tell, be patient.

Also if I remember correctly from before this patch IS large lasers were not very common already.

[crazytimes]

Luckless Horn, on 25 August 2023 - 04:48 AM, said:

The new weapon has been out for single digit days, perhaps it's way too early to declare other weapons systems as completely obsolete?

We're still in the phase where people are preferentially using the new weapons because of the novelty and to find out what they can do. Time will tell, be patient.

Also if I remember correctly from before this patch IS large lasers were not very common already.

A lot of the builds seem to be replacing LPL+ERML with BLC . It's not really a 2LL-BLC swap.

I replaced 4 LL with 2 BLC + 1 ERML on the QKD-5K and that works okay, slightly more heat for more alpha and armour. Otherwise I'm kind of used to the builds, and like you said, LL is pretty uncommon outside of quirked builds.

[Meep Meep]

Large still have a purpose in that you can use a blazer and large in tandem if you would normally run with three larges or if slot and hardpoint restrictions forbade it.

Curccu, on 24 August 2023 - 09:47 PM, said:

You only save 1 ton not 2 and for that IMO worse CD and Duration are ok tradeoff, mech skills affect normal LL also.

And like Meep meep mentioned haven't seen IS 30 tonners wielding two of them so far... it is possible sdr-5d but well not very good I'm afraid.

No IS 30 tonner is going to be able to use two and be viable but many can use a blazer and large where they couldn't fit in three large. That one ton does make a difference in some cases.

jvn-10f

To use two you need a 35 ton minimum and 40 ton is probably the realistic weight.

For a 30 tonner like the urbie then one blazer and some er meds give you almost 2x blazer alpha.

um-r80

Like I said it generates additional options.

[KursedVixen]

from what i see for less energy slots and more range you can have 2 ERLARge for a BLC all for only one heat more you have more range ,but for some mechs i can see where that won't fit, but i do think that the ghost heat limit needs to be fixed i see a bunch of mechs using BLC and while I don't mind it as much as some other weapons I do see it totally replacing ERLarge and large lasers as a problem....

Also I'd like to note though I mostly play clan mechs i rarely use more than one heavy large they just are too hot to me.

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 August 2023 - 05:53 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Two larges standard or er are the same slots as a blazer but cost one ton more. It's fine and still not to par with clan vomit even ~with~ the incorrect hsl. This is much ado about nothing. IS effective have clan heavy larges now with the normal increase in fittings. Stop crying..

[KursedVixen]

Meep Meep, on 25 August 2023 - 05:28 AM, said:

Two larges standard or er are the same slots as a blazer but cost one ton more. It's fine and still not to par with clan vomit even ~with~ the incorrect hsl. This is much ado about nothing. IS effective have clan heavy larges now with the normal increase in fittings. Stop crying..

cost one less weapon slot.

[Meep Meep]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 05:54 AM, said:

cost one less weapon slot.

Do you mean hardpoint?

[pbiggz]

New toys are out. People are obviously going to be playing them. If you're seeing that and inferring that Blazers have fully replaced large lasers you are silly, and dismissing an obvious externality for the sake of being mad.

My experience with Blazers is that the magic number is 2. On any of my triple blazer mechs I find myself firing 2 and 1 rather than all 3 because even with the HSL of 3, they run very hot. Basically the only overperformers are blazer stalkers and the like; a small handful of relatively chonky mechs that can boat them and enough heat sinks to overcome their heat. Once the HSL is dropped in the next patch, those will go away.

We can stop clutching our pearls now.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Binary laser needs it's own HSL category and not be merged into Large Laser. That's the main problem right there. Then compare heat to the large laser. Blazer should be more than double the heat of a large laser because you save a slot and a hardpoint. The duration right now is similar enough to not make a difference. Blazers should be attractive to mechs that are energy hardpoint starved whereas large lasers are attractive if you have the hardpoints and tonnage. It's actually something that can help some hardpoint starved IS mechs finally, maybe with some quirks.

[Ken Harkin]

Curccu, on 24 August 2023 - 09:47 PM, said:

You only save 1 ton not 2 and for that IMO worse CD and Duration are ok tradeoff, mech skills affect normal LL also.

And like Meep meep mentioned haven't seen IS 30 tonners wielding two of them so far... it is possible sdr-5d but well not very good I'm afraid.

At 35 tons I just barely get 2 on the right arm of a Raven 4X. No jump jets as there is no space after the XL engine and DHS, You also need to shave armor. That said, it works nicely.

The BLC shines when you could not effectively mount 2 LL due to hard point or space restrictions. Two of them work very well together. Three start consuming lots of space and generating lots of heat. You are going to start running into problems mounting enough DHS to compensate.

It is running nicely on my MAD-5D in the high slot backed by 4ERML and a MRM40. 78 point alphas are pretty damn nasty and the high peaking mount works very well.

[InspectorG]

Meep Meep, on 25 August 2023 - 05:16 AM, said:

Large still have a purpose in that you can use a blazer and large in tandem if you would normally run with three larges or if slot and hardpoint restrictions forbade it.



No IS 30 tonner is going to be able to use two and be viable but many can use a blazer and large where they couldn't fit in three large. That one ton does make a difference in some cases.

Its a benefit to the 30 tonner with only 2 E hardpoints. Then space becomes an issue if using Ferro

[R Valentine]

Even after fixing the HSL, the binary laser stalker is going to be way overtuned. 4x binaries on that mech is unbelievably strong.