205 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

foamyesque, on 03 September 2023 - 03:50 PM, said:

That'd make me sad I don't play with .cfg edits, but FCC is one of my favourite maps and one of the ones I do best on for whatever reason. Ditto FCS.

Well config edits can beautify the game too. It's all in how you change the variables. Just the lodding changes to force the game to render everything at all ranges at max detail is worth setting up a config. It's not even that gpu intensive as long as you are not playing on a potato.

[Tiy0s]

Cyborne Elemental, on 03 September 2023 - 05:47 AM, said:

PGI lost their person that had the experience to code Cryengine-3 to block out such settings from being changed from what I understand. (could be wrong about that)

Editing xml and scripts are one thing, programming core engine code is another beast in itself.

Its probably why PGI started using the Unreal engine to move forward with future games, as there are tons of coders that know the engine, as well as having a huge community of resourceful programmers and developers building modern games with Unreal 4/5.

As far as those settings go, yeah its not something that should be allowed.
It should be considered cheating.

But since PGI can't really do anything about blocking those commands, it will be abused.

Same thing about using any form of anti-cheat, If there is no effort to keep gameplay on a level playing field with something as simple as "Easy Anti-Cheat", it is inevitable that some people will abuse it because of the absence of any countermeasure.

Just to clarify, a lot of our original engineers still work at PGI. They're working on future games

[Meep Meep]

Tiy0s, on 03 September 2023 - 04:16 PM, said:

Hrmmm, is this a "just your friendly neighborhood dev working hard on your behalf chiming in" smiley or a "I know something you don't know" smiley?

[Cyborne Elemental]

Tiy0s, on 03 September 2023 - 04:16 PM, said:

Just to clarify, a lot of our original engineers still work at PGI. They're working on future games

Then, why are these settings still adjustable?
Its clearly gamebreaking, and a unfair advantage.

Also, why is there no anti-cheat at all what so ever to catch hooks or minimal safeguards.

[BumbleBee]

I'm all for adding in stuff to pretty the game up. 10yrs ago a lot was stripped out because of performance on old hardware. I personally think it should have been left in as an option for those that could use it though, and would love for that to be added back in,

Pretty Please Tiy0s



As to the vegetation and fog thing, how the hell is that not locked out of being changed? I'm on the fence about weapons effects effecting vision being toned down via config. I get that one, but it is still an advantage. Things effecting vision should be hard locked no matter what the settings level is

For single player games, sure, but for PVP? Yeah, I call that cheating

[Meep Meep]

BumbleBee, on 04 September 2023 - 01:39 AM, said:

I'm all for adding in stuff to pretty the game up. 10yrs ago a lot was stripped out because of performance on old hardware. I personally think it should have been left in as an option for those that could use it though, and would love for that to be added back in,

Pretty Please Tiy0s



As to the vegetation and fog thing, how the hell is that not locked out of being changed? I'm on the fence about weapons effects effecting vision being toned down via config. I get that one, but it is still an advantage. Things effecting vision should be hard locked no matter what the settings level is

For single player games, sure, but for PVP? Yeah, I call that cheating

Well to be fair if you missed my earlier post a run through all the maps shows only forest classic is drastically effected by the vegetation setting since nearly all the vegetation is non collision so it turns it into an open moonscape. Viridian bog is missing the lily pads and every other map looks the same as with low settings vegetation wise. It's not really an I win button except on that one map. All the rest again are mostly done with low settings even the fog. The config just adds in stuff like forcing everything to show up at all ranges at full detail so no invisible walls blocking shots on mechs that should be hidden.

[Weeny Machine]

Der Geisterbaer, on 03 September 2023 - 09:39 AM, said:

Well "acshually" ... he specifically spoke of an ECM mech being able to (further) blurring its outline (a.k.a. silhouette) by moving behind the "visual clutter" (as you prefer to call obstacles like trees and vegetation.

You're strawmanning him there and combine it with a highly bogus counter claim of yours: His basic premise of an ECM mech typically means that you actually cannot aquire a target lock and thus the mech can only be seen against the background and is additionally hidden / obfuscated by vegetation thus making it harder to spot the mech and / or properly aiming at it. The very vegetation that you - by your own words - like to remove, thereby making it easier for you to spot and shoot at ECM protected mechs, Thus ...



... this is very much about an ability that can be changed via config.



No, you fail at reading comprehension and by strawmanning and fundamentally altering the premise to a state that is typically not the case with an ECM protected mech you try to claim that he's wrong => The only "failure" here is yours in your attempt to justify a user config modification that bypasses an intended level of object obfuscation that would normally represent a somewhat "realistic" limitation for Eyeball MK I detection / aiming.



Technically, you thereby applaud cheaters for cheating. ~shrug~

Stop the mental dueling. It is obvious he came unarmed

This being said, he should have been as smart as the other "pros" who are suddenly very quiet. As I said before...a roaring silence from the usual entitled lecturer on this forum.

Meep Meep, on 03 September 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

Ok to toss a bit of water on this growing fire I've ran through every active map and so far its only two that are standouts. Forest colony classic and viridian bog. Forest classic becomes a moonscape because nearly all the tree and vegetation are non collision. Bog is mainly just the ground cover and the biggest offender are the lily pads in the low areas are completely gone. Every other map is more or less unchanged past vegetation even normal low settings removes. All those little trees everyone hates on maps like hellbore outpost are still there. The water removal is a non issue unless you liked hiding in the deeper spots in a locust or flea. That one does hurt a little bit but for the majority its meh.

I haven't changed my .config. I simply don't want to put any effort into this crap. However, to pour some oil into the fire again: there should be small patches/elements on quite a few maps which should at least serve as visiual cover - at least for ECM mechs.

Also, what about the trees at the cliffs on Boreal?

Edited by Weeny Machine, 04 September 2023 - 11:21 AM.

[Ihlrath]

Meep Meep, on 04 September 2023 - 06:12 AM, said:

Well to be fair if you missed my earlier post a run through all the maps shows only forest classic is drastically effected by the vegetation setting since nearly all the vegetation is non collision so it turns it into an open moonscape. Viridian bog is missing the lily pads and every other map looks the same as with low settings vegetation wise. It's not really an I win button except on that one map. All the rest again are mostly done with low settings even the fog. The config just adds in stuff like forcing everything to show up at all ranges at full detail so no invisible walls blocking shots on mechs that should be hidden.

Also removing fog and smoke from maps like Frozen, Caustic, River City, etc allows for a lot of long range Kobe shots since there's no 'non-collision' particles obscuring shots. Again, I agree with Weeny that the normally loud and vocal 'git gud nub' crowd isn't speaking up here as they usually do to educate us peasants and I think that speaks volumes.

[foamyesque]

Ihlrath, on 04 September 2023 - 01:07 PM, said:

Also removing fog and smoke from maps like Frozen, Caustic, River City, etc allows for a lot of long range Kobe shots since there's no 'non-collision' particles obscuring shots. Again, I agree with Weeny that the normally loud and vocal 'git gud nub' crowd isn't speaking up here as they usually do to educate us peasants and I think that speaks volumes.

I mean, on Caustic, all you gotta do is turn on thermal anyway, but yeah, removing fog's a pretty big advantage too.

[The Brewer]

Weeny Machine, on 04 September 2023 - 11:20 AM, said:

Stop the mental dueling. It is obvious he came unarmed

This being said, he should have been as smart as the other "pros" who are suddenly very quiet. As I said before...a roaring silence from the usual entitled lecturer on this forum.



I haven't changed my .config. I simply don't want to put any effort into this crap. However, to pour some oil into the fire again: there should be small patches/elements on quite a few maps which should at least serve as visiual cover - at least for ECM mechs.

Also, what about the trees at the cliffs on Boreal?

You were given the keys to the kingdom, so to speak.

Many of us would prefer cfg not to do so much. Having to have it to keep the playing field totally level is a problem, and part of why GeeRam made it public in the first place - you can all do it now. Your complaints are falling on deaf ears because there’s no ‘unfair advantage’ left if you use the cfg. Your choice not to is your choice, and yours alone at this point.

For the record I hope they restrict the moddable variables further, because it is a bit ridiculous.

Edited by The Brewer, 04 September 2023 - 02:11 PM.

[Kodan Black]

So the whole "gitgud" was really a lot of "gitgud at editing config files"...

[Marcel Leander]

When I bought my RTX3070 I edited my config file to crank the settings up as far as I could, I wanted the game to look as good as possible for as outdated as it is. What I quickly learned is that a lot of these settings don't actually work in a fair amount of maps once you're in an actual match. You can take them into the testing grounds and play with them for sure, but jump into a game with other people and a lot of your settings are back to bog standard. I'd be interested in seeing some evidence of these settings actually providing someone with an advantage in a real match.

[The Brewer]

Kodan Black, on 04 September 2023 - 05:40 PM, said:

So the whole "gitgud" was really a lot of "gitgud at editing config files"...

Could try it out and see for yourself I suppose.

Nine-Ball, on 04 September 2023 - 07:54 PM, said:

My question is how long this has existed?

As far as I know, you’ve always been able to… and there used to be more in it you could change.

[The Brewer]

That I don't know. Someone who's been around longer would have to chime in.

I do know MrVaad's editor has been around (and stickied here) since 2021, so even if one didn't know how to generate/edit one on their own it could have been done by anyone since then.

[Weeny Machine]

The Brewer, on 04 September 2023 - 02:10 PM, said:

You were given the keys to the kingdom, so to speak.

Many of us would prefer cfg not to do so much. Having to have it to keep the playing field totally level is a problem, and part of why GeeRam made it public in the first place - you can all do it now. Your complaints are falling on deaf ears because there’s no ‘unfair advantage’ left if you use the cfg. Your choice not to is your choice, and yours alone at this point.

For the record I hope they restrict the moddable variables further, because it is a bit ridiculous.

This is also very hypocritic and you miss the point completely. Why? Because this obviously was (ab)used for a long time by the very vocal pros while strutting around in the forum. This speaks volumes.

Also, I won't turn down graphics because some low lives do it to get an advantage. I play video games for fun and graphics are a part of that. I am sure, that those people would play Pong like graphics if that would give them an advantage.

Last but not least, the need to modify a config says all. It was not wanted by PGI - it is just one more of their inabilities to control their own game and therefore they simply make it legal. If that isn't obvious to you, you are lying to yourself, [Redacted]

Edit: I meant inabilities of course

Edited by GM Patience, 06 September 2023 - 11:16 AM.

[Curccu]

Weeny Machine, on 05 September 2023 - 02:05 AM, said:

Last but not least, the need to modify a config says all. It was not wanted by PGI - it is just one more of their abilities to control their own game and therefore they simply make it legal. If that isn't obvious to you, you are lying to yourself, [Redacted]

Have to 100% disagree with you on this one, PGI chooses what people can modify in this file and it is fully in their hands.
Why they haven't blocked something like removing trees from forest colony classic and are refusing to do so when asked by people in the Video.. no idea that is just stupid and IMO unprofessional.

[Meep Meep]

Nine-Ball, on 04 September 2023 - 08:41 PM, said:

So this has been a thing in competitive MWO since the beginning?

In comp/faction play? Sure. Since user configs have been a thing. You can't keep hyper competitive people from trying to legally game every possible advantage. They took the time to test out cvars to find the ones that worked and like all advantageous info its kept close to the vest. But there isn't anything stopping anyone else from doing the same. Especially now that GeeRam spilled the beans and it hasn't exactly made him super popular amongst a certain segment of the tryhard community.

[Weeny Machine]

Curccu, on 05 September 2023 - 04:58 AM, said:

Have to 100% disagree with you on this one, PGI chooses what people can modify in this file and it is fully in their hands.
Why they haven't blocked something like removing trees from forest colony classic and are refusing to do so when asked by people in the Video.. no idea that is just stupid and IMO unprofessional.

Yeah, as if PGI still can control their game...
What baffles me is the egoism here. There are people who play just for fun and have some stress relief. And these methods are just the thing to p*** on their experience. On the other hand these "pros" are the same people who cry that faction play is dead - because *surprise* the pugs found it no fun to be ripped a new one again and again. Now the same crap is done in QP. And again you hear "uuh, player numbers are low bohooo". Well, sure this is not the only reason but it is ONE of the reasons people get driven away

Edited by Weeny Machine, 05 September 2023 - 06:37 AM.

[The Brewer]

Weeny Machine, on 05 September 2023 - 02:05 AM, said:

This is also very hypocritic and you miss the point completely. Why? Because this obviously was (ab)used for a long time by the very vocal pros while strutting around in the forum. This speaks volumes.

Also, I won't turn down graphics because some low lives do it to get an advantage. I play video games for fun and graphics are a part of that. I am sure, that those people would play Pong like graphics if that would give them an advantage.

Last but not least, the need to modify a config says all. It was not wanted by PGI - it is just one more of their inabilities to control their own game and therefore they simply make it legal. If that isn't obvious to you, you are lying to yourself, [Redated]

Edit: I meant inabilities of course

Hypocritical how exactly? I think I am missing at least one of your points. And you missed mine entirely so I’ll help you out.

Say it’s a race PGI organized. The rules allow racing slicks. Many of the top drivers use them.

You’ve shown up with street tires, and are having a bit more trouble in the corners. Then, you hear one of the best drivers describe his tires, and how he’s using them to maintain an edge - all according to the rules.

This is like showing up, complaining to the organizers that everyone else is using slicks while you aren’t. Not only that, but using the words “cheater” and “low life” to describe the users of the slicks. They’re not against the rules. Not only that, the top drivers are also saying “hey, lap times are getting really low and we need to restrict tires to street legal ones so everyone can be on the same level.”

I hope this helps because I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.

[Ignatius Audene]

The only reason pgi allows the config changes is because they lost the keys... And are [Redacted] to set "always render all detail objects" as stock /move the important settings to ingame menu.