107 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

VeeOt Dragon, on 06 September 2023 - 11:41 PM, said:

honestly i feel the OP and a few others here. i just haven't been enjoying MWO like i used to. i can't really place a finger on why though. it could be a number of factors from the further nerfing of LRM to lower and lower TTK i'm just not sure. hell it could just be me and my current mental state.

for now i am taking a break from MWO and playing Baldur's Gate 3 (extra props to Larian Studios for making a new game that will still run on this well over a decade old PC) and a bit of an early access indie game called Jumplight Odyssey. i might come back and do the current free mech event but maybe not since i already have 2 stalkers (3FB and Misery) not really interested in another one.

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I agree MWO has been my stompy robot go to for 10 + years now but it has never scratched that itch like Mechwarrior4 mercenaries did MWO lacks all the fun things MW4 once had Hugh Social lobby's 20+ leagues 4 of the biggest Faction warfare game modes MechWarrior has ever had 1000 maps and 20+ game modes.

When I started playing World of Tanks before MWO I just really hated it because it was dang repetitive over and over basically the same battles and experiences. And i love WW2 tanks that's why I played it for a bit and war thunder for the WW2 planes, but it got old quickly as well.

I personally think MWO every month is becoming closer to these games' listed aboves gameplay and that's why I'm not having much fun these days with the majority of the mechs becoming overpowered and less TTK in games the fun is all but gone just like all of our fun game modes as well.

Faction play is all but dead, Scouting is dead, Solaris is dead, Quick Play Groups is dead plus a few game modes are dead and this version of solo quick play is totally a bad idea by those that think as a last ditch effort they can make what's left of competitive group play work.

I do believe changing solo quick play back to solo players only and removing groups to a group only que that was 8v8-4v4 drops depending on how many can be fielded for a battle would work and be a viable alternative to the garbage exploited game mode we now have.

If not, I too believe it's time to take a long vacation. To a new game with fresh game play like possibly Starfield. In this topic are my opinions on MWO now and the past I will always be a MechWarrior pilot since Mechwarrior1,2,3,4,5 and MWO .But that does not mean i have to play a game that to me is just not fun, strategic and more defensive in nature with longer TTK.

[Feezou]

The game is a tradefest at this point. Most of the time you can’t really get a 12 man team to commit to a brawl and leverage dps, so the best way to play is to do as much damage while losing as little armor as possible, naturally driving players to adopt more poking play styles. Mg red laser mechs like the mist lynx and spl firestarter were fairly popular and were the topic of potential nerfs, but now I see more snubs, lppc, hll/lpl and lmg builds on lighter mechs now. The reward is lower as the damage is less efficient, but the risk is exposure is far lower, making it a safer and better play style in most situations.

I think that in comparison to lasers, ballistics are falling behind in mid range. Lasers offer higher alphas but less dps. Because of this, a ballistic mech will almost never win a trade against a laser mech. I’ve seen people raise this concern before, and the balancing consensus seems to be that dps ballistics are meant to punish mechs that expose themselves for too long, standing out in the open and leaving themselves out of position. The problem with this is that good players don’t overexpose. Any player with a decent understanding of what dps ballistics do isn’t going to let an enemy rack up numbers on them while they’re out of position. If the weapons in this game are balanced from the top down, balancing dps ballistics around farming bad players will make them inherently worse than lasers and ppcs when optimally played.

I have seen Bassault bring this issue up on discord and be met with “skill issue,” but how can it be a skill issue if the metric for ballistic performance is farming bad players?

Edited by Feezou, 07 September 2023 - 12:55 PM.

[Bassault]

Feezou, on 07 September 2023 - 12:51 PM, said:

The game is a tradefest at this point. Most of the time you can’t really get a 12 man team to commit to a brawl and leverage dps, so the best way to play is to do as much damage while losing as little armor as possible, naturally driving players to adopt more poking play styles. Mg red laser mechs like the mist lynx and spl firestarter were fairly popular and were the topic of potential nerfs, but now I see more snubs, lppc, hll/lpl and lmg builds on lighter mechs now. The reward is lower as the damage is less efficient, but the risk is exposure is far lower, making it a safer and better play style in most situations.

I think that in comparison to lasers, ballistics are falling behind in mid range. Lasers offer higher alphas but less dps. Because of this, a ballistic mech will almost never win a trade against a laser mech. I’ve seen people raise this concern before, and the balancing consensus seems to be that dps ballistics are meant to punish mechs that expose themselves for too long, standing out in the open and leaving themselves out of position. The problem with this is that good players don’t overexpose. Any player with a decent understanding of what dps ballistics do isn’t going to let an enemy rack up numbers on them while they’re out of position. If the weapons in this game are balanced from the top down, balancing dps ballistics around farming bad players will make them inherently worse than lasers and ppcs when optimally played.

I have seen Bassault bring this issue up on discord and be met with “skill issue,” but how can it be a skill issue if the metric for ballistic performance is farming bad players?

The cauldron members who say "skill issue" are flat out wrong and/or being disingenuous. Not all Cauldron members are top tier players. Many other cauldron members acknowledge that I am right (that ballistics suck at trading), but in one way or another admit or imply that it's ok this way because as long as pugs in QP are generally bad, ballistics will have a place (to farm idiots in the open).

The Cauldron is ok with ballistics being noob stomping weapons, so there's no point in trying to convince them that ballistics are weak because they already know. If you want to play ballistics, just keep it in the back of your mind that you're at a huge disadvantage if your opponent is intelligent. If you want to win and remain competitive, play lasers.

My argument has always been this: Since ballistics require that the user converge and lead the target with a slow moving projectile, they take more skill to use than point and click lasers. Therefor, if something takes more skill to use, it should be strong, at the very least in some common situations, assuming both players are of equal skill. Someone standing in the open, gawking at me, is not a common situation assuming both players are of equal skill.

Edited by Bassault, 07 September 2023 - 01:08 PM.

[KingCobra]

Feezou, on 07 September 2023 - 12:51 PM, said:

The game is a tradefest at this point. Most of the time you can’t really get a 12 man team to commit to a brawl and leverage dps, so the best way to play is to do as much damage while losing as little armor as possible, naturally driving players to adopt more poking play styles. Mg red laser mechs like the mist lynx and spl firestarter were fairly popular and were the topic of potential nerfs, but now I see more snubs, lppc, hll/lpl and lmg builds on lighter mechs now. The reward is lower as the damage is less efficient, but the risk is exposure is far lower, making it a safer and better play style in most situations.

I think that in comparison to lasers, ballistics are falling behind in mid range. Lasers offer higher alphas but less dps. Because of this, a ballistic mech will almost never win a trade against a laser mech. I’ve seen people raise this concern before, and the balancing consensus seems to be that dps ballistics are meant to punish mechs that expose themselves for too long, standing out in the open and leaving themselves out of position. The problem with this is that good players don’t overexpose. Any player with a decent understanding of what dps ballistics do isn’t going to let an enemy rack up numbers on them while they’re out of position. If the weapons in this game are balanced from the top down, balancing dps ballistics around farming bad players will make them inherently worse than lasers and ppcs when optimally played.

I have seen Bassault bring this issue up on discord and be met with “skill issue,” but how can it be a skill issue if the metric for ballistic performance is farming bad players?

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I'm sure the player base understands these concepts quite clearly but there killing the game with the power creep of highly skilled meta groups in solo quick play and basically, they don't care if they run every new or casual player out of the game as long as there getting their little E-PEENS off and exploiting and trolling everyone else.

They need to be in their own group que to carry on their bad behavior and antics.

[KingCobra]

Bassault, on 07 September 2023 - 01:01 PM, said:

The cauldron members who say "skill issue" are flat out wrong and/or being disingenuous. Not all Cauldron members are top tier players. Many other cauldron members acknowledge that I am right (that ballistics suck at trading), but in one way or another admit or imply that it's ok this way because as long as pugs in QP are generally bad, ballistics will have a place (to farm idiots in the open).

The Cauldron is ok with ballistics being noob stomping weapons, so there's no point in trying to convince them that ballistics are weak because they already know. If you want to play ballistics, just keep it in the back of your mind that you're at a huge disadvantage if your opponent is intelligent. If you want to win and remain competitive, play lasers.

My argument has always been this: Since ballistics require that the user converge and lead the target with a slow moving projectile, they take more skill to use than point and click lasers. Therefor, if something takes more skill to use, it should be strong, at the very least in some common situations, assuming both players are of equal skill. Someone standing in the open, gawking at me, is not a common situation assuming both players are of equal skill.

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I have only one thing to say about the cauldron they should be removed from any decisions about MWO gameplay or anything else in MWO as they do not reflect the normal player bases requests in any way and only the requests of Meta groups.

[Bassault]

KingCobra, on 07 September 2023 - 01:12 PM, said:

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I have only one thing to say about the cauldron they should be removed from any decisions about MWO gameplay or anything else in MWO as they do not reflect the normal player bases requests in any way and only the requests of Meta groups.

I feel the same way about you, too many of your opinions aren't well thought out and you demonstrate a poor understanding of how the game works. The Cauldron has done a lot of good and all of their members have contributed valuably in one way or another. Just because I disagree with them on a few things doesn't mean you're on my side.

[Feezou]

KingCobra, on 07 September 2023 - 01:12 PM, said:

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I have only one thing to say about the cauldron they should be removed from any decisions about MWO gameplay or anything else in MWO as they do not reflect the normal player bases requests in any way and only the requests of Meta groups.

To be honest, I do not think the normal players base’s requests would be best for the game. People have said they want brawling to be stronger, and iirc snubs were greatly buffed, AC20 had a cooldown reduction and velocity buff, and srms got their heat lowered to bring them in line with brawling red lasers. I don’t see how this serves the clpl spam/clan laservom meta. If they want to serve the meta, why would they bring down the damage of cerml?

[KingCobra]

Bassault, on 07 September 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

I feel the same way about you, too many of your opinions aren't well thought out and you demonstrate a poor understanding of how the game works. The Cauldron has done a lot of good and all of their members have contributed valuably in one way or another. Just because I disagree with them on a few things doesn't mean you're on my side.

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Basically, your input into this topic does not mean anything as your becoming a condescending person to the player base of MWO and attacking individuals as well I ask you to refrain from this attitude.

[Knownswift]

This community begged for groups in solo.

For what its worth, if you look at the stats player retention has been better since then. People want to play with their friends.

Also.. op... Not trying to be mean. You should Jarls yourself.

[Feezou]

KingCobra, on 07 September 2023 - 01:09 PM, said:

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I'm sure the player base understands these concepts quite clearly but there killing the game with the power creep of highly skilled meta groups in solo quick play and basically, they don't care if they run every new or casual player out of the game as long as there getting their little E-PEENS off and exploiting and trolling everyone else.

They need to be in their own group que to carry on their bad behavior and antics.

Unfortunately, I don’t think a solution to this is possible. People like to play with their friends, and splitting into solo and group q would effectively kill being able to play this game in groups. The population is just too low to separate the queues.

[KingCobra]

Feezou, on 07 September 2023 - 01:25 PM, said:

To be honest, I do not think the normal players base’s requests would be best for the game. People have said they want brawling to be stronger, and iirc snubs were greatly buffed, AC20 had a cooldown reduction and velocity buff, and srms got their heat lowered to bring them in line with brawling red lasers. I don’t see how this serves the clpl spam/clan laservom meta. If they want to serve the meta, why would they bring down the damage of cerml?

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Yes, but what the player base really wants is to play games with lower weapon damage higher TTK more defensive capability and more general fun in chat during games in solo play or if there were a new QP cue MechWarrior games were never meant to be 1 shot 1 kill games or balanced by coordinated groups VS less skilled or solo casual players to be farmed who wants to play in this game environment long?

[Bassault]

KingCobra, on 07 September 2023 - 01:27 PM, said:

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Basically, your input into this topic does not mean anything as your becoming a condescending person to the player base of MWO and attacking individuals as well I ask you to refrain from this attitude.

Well then, I will have to ask you to first get a proper understanding on how the game works before having such strong and vocal opinions about it. If you aren't doing well in QP, it means you still have things to learn, not that the game has to change.

[KingCobra]

Knownswift, on 07 September 2023 - 01:28 PM, said:

This community begged for groups in solo.

For what its worth, if you look at the stats player retention has been better since then. People want to play with their friends.

Also.. op... Not trying to be mean. You should Jarls yourself.

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I'm sorry Knownswift but this is just not true. So many Solo and Casual player fought for this not to happen joining solo and group que together i was there i read them and i would say up to 80% thought this was a bad idea and would not end well as combining the two groups together would open the door to exploiting players farming players trolling players and be quite unbalanced gameplay. Plus, they were ignored by PGI as they always have been.

Jarls LOL I'm impressed carry-on pilot since I'm a clone by PGI's horrible decision I could come as my comp t/1 Founders self and let you wing me LOL

[Knownswift]

KingCobra, on 07 September 2023 - 01:40 PM, said:

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I'm sorry Knownswift but this is just not true.

It is. And you're wrong. It had been continually requested ever since OG GQ started to wane and eventually died.

Retention and player count has been better since the merged Q was introduced. Go look at the publicly available stats.

Edited by Knownswift, 07 September 2023 - 01:44 PM.

[KingCobra]

Knownswift, on 07 September 2023 - 01:43 PM, said:

It is. And you're wrong. It had been continually requested ever since OG GQ started to wane and eventually died.

Retention and player count has been better since the merged Q was introduced. Go look at the publicly available stats.

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We'll let me just say this was a PGI/ meta groups decision to join the ques it had very little to do with what other player groups wanted they all were just ignored and yes the player count might be a few hundred players more but if you could dig deeper, you would find there mostly not new accounts but alt accounts.

And yes, I fought as well for GQ but instead of fixing the game mode they destroyed it just like all the other lost game modes in MWO.

Edited by KingCobra, 07 September 2023 - 01:51 PM.

[Knownswift]

KingCobra, on 07 September 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

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We'll let me just say this was a PGI/ meta groups decision to join the ques

Actually the eval meta players were very vocally against merged Q. Try again.

Look at the publicly available data. The community has spoken.

Edited by Knownswift, 07 September 2023 - 01:56 PM.

[KingCobra]

Knownswift, on 07 September 2023 - 01:55 PM, said:

Actually the eval meta players were very vocally against merged Q. Try again.

Look at the publicly available data. The community has spoken.

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Yes, I know I was on coms hearing them saying we don't want this merger their potato's unskilled and it's going to be horrible game play situation. Then some groups are like heck yes let's merge they will be like baby seals to the slaughter I know I did not want to be in my group and in a meta mech just baby seal killing everyone it was a stupid idea to start with on PGI's part.

Plus, friends would play in both solo quick play and group que if there was one like I stated. and yes we do have enough for 2 ques and it might bring in a few real new players and possibly some old players as well.

Plus, teams would be able to recruit new players out of GQ for faction play and maybe just maybe keep it alive so we don't lose another game mode.

Edited by KingCobra, 07 September 2023 - 03:16 PM.

[KingCobra]

Well, PGI since the last patch I'm really tired of all the overpowered weapons bad balance and one to two shot kills I personally have not been killed so fast in 10 years of gameplay and time to be kill in battles now is so bad the game has been totally unfun.

I really see no reason to play MWO anymore or fund you for anything after the bad moonwalker purchase, I made, and it was basically nerfed after a week of me playing it.

I might check back later this year to see if you have come to your senses on balancing your overpowered mechs and making maps random again also making a new group que and removing groups from solo quick play.

You're basically killing your own game and driving away any real new players and old players in MWO by not fixing the exploits and other problems in the game.

[Tectonix]

Starting with Moonwalker, high firepower issues completely ruined the game.
Since Cauldron, the game has become a one-shot arcade game, and with every patch it gets worse.
PGI seems to have completely given up on fixing the overarmed meta.
Slow, easy to die, easy to kill sniper porn.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bassault, on 07 September 2023 - 01:01 PM, said:

The cauldron members who say "skill issue" are flat out wrong and/or being disingenuous. Not all Cauldron members are top tier players. Many other cauldron members acknowledge that I am right (that ballistics suck at trading), but in one way or another admit or imply that it's ok this way because as long as pugs in QP are generally bad, ballistics will have a place (to farm idiots in the open).

The Cauldron is ok with ballistics being noob stomping weapons, so there's no point in trying to convince them that ballistics are weak because they already know. If you want to play ballistics, just keep it in the back of your mind that you're at a huge disadvantage if your opponent is intelligent. If you want to win and remain competitive, play lasers.

My argument has always been this: Since ballistics require that the user converge and lead the target with a slow moving projectile, they take more skill to use than point and click lasers. Therefor, if something takes more skill to use, it should be strong, at the very least in some common situations, assuming both players are of equal skill. Someone standing in the open, gawking at me, is not a common situation assuming both players are of equal skill.

I think there is value in mixing ballistics with lasers for trading, especially C-UAC10s (probably HAGs right now to be fair) on some larger mechs (eg Deathstrike, Stone Rhino).

Long burn clan lasers mean you can usually get a UAC10 double tap out during the burn, so the exposure isnt longer, and the max alpha output is much bigger.

Yeah if the target is moving laterally they dont combine well, but most trading happens vs mostly stationery targets.

Edit: id agree that on anything below about 75 tons, lasers all the way.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 15 September 2023 - 05:08 AM.