87 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Armsracer, on 19 September 2023 - 10:48 AM, said:

This is just a nightmare to me. You want the only indirect fire weapon to only be sometimes an indirect fire weapon and be on par with direct fire weapons in direct fire. Even though it splashes all over the mech. Even though it takes time to lock on. You want to take away the only thing that makes it unique and make it jump through hoops of having a spotter with narc or tag. No, just use mrms or atms.

Yes.

Because without the capacity for being on par with them, there is no point in taking them. People gravitate to IDF anyways. By pretty much making it as a LOS weapon, and only IDF sometimes when there's TAG/NARC in play, from a designated spotter, then you get effective and legit IDF weapon, it makes it balanced instead of having to tip-toe between weapons having two overt roles that makes balancing harder.

Armsracer, on 19 September 2023 - 10:48 AM, said:

You want to make the user be able to be 40 degrees off target and still be able to hit it. No. If I have to be pin point with my shots so do you!

Yes, that's the point of homing weapons -- easy mode. The lock-cone reduction pretty much just made lock-on weapons closer to a pin-point DF weapon, which further defeated the point.

Armsracer, on 19 September 2023 - 10:48 AM, said:

Maybe make the progress of the lock decrease slightly instead of breaking when off target to add a buffer when the target jukes?

You mean target decay? Whole another problem bud, and one which the game has ways to buff namely radar derp. Cauldron lessened it, but really didn't want to let it go. Funnily enough, I think they pretty much max the entire radar-derp tree anyways.

Armsracer, on 19 September 2023 - 10:48 AM, said:

High alpha's are LRM 20s. Dps are the LRM 5s. The one with the best tonnage is the LRM 15. Maybe they can allow for firing more LRM 20s without HSL?

You do realize that it is in PGI's own words that they designed it with the purpose of DPS/Ton weapons? That is the point, they are harassment, they are **** you throw and hope that enough sticks.

The entire Lock-On debacle, IIRC, is about lessening effective lurms in the air, why they made lock harder, such as the lock-cone, the radar derp, the ECM, the distance lock-time reduction. Yet the entire time, they never considered maybe they only need to make them alpha-weapons instead, and went straight to the CD instead.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 September 2023 - 02:45 PM.

[Haipyng]

Brawling is next to useless. Streaks are not worth taking with all the nerfs anything over a light will eat your lunch with those. LRMs are so bad that you have to boat them to carry enough ammo to do much. The only viable weapons are direct fire, 500+ meters.

It was supposed to be Mech Warrior...

[The6thMessenger]

Haipyng, on 19 September 2023 - 02:41 PM, said:

Brawling is next to useless. Streaks are not worth taking with all the nerfs anything over a light will eat your lunch with those. LRMs are so bad that you have to boat them to carry enough ammo to do much. The only viable weapons are direct fire, 500+ meters.

It was supposed to be Mech Warrior...

Yep, welcome to comp-peekaboo online.
Though SRM still have their uses.

[JediPanther]

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 02:46 PM, said:

Yep, welcome to comp-peekaboo online.
Though SRM still have their uses.

Yep. Lrms are pretty much useless dead weight right now. So I switched to 6s. Had a domination match on solaris in the cptl-c1 4xmpl 2x srm6 build. I was last mech standing with the team down by five. Filped on over-ride and some how solo-ed the last five enemy mechs with my cat shot up to where a micro laser could have killed the red ct. Given the right (rare) circumstances a brawl build can do some decent damage and get a few lucky kills.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 02:09 PM, said:

Yes, that's the point of homing weapons -- easy mode.

I think this gets at the heart of the question, what purpose do missiles serve in this game. Are missile boats really just supposed to be "ez mode" but have a low skill ceiling compared to other weapons? IMO that seems pretty limiting, an entire group of weapons meant to just be crutches until people get better, the noob tube of the game if you will.

Too that end, honestly it feels like Streaks are really what we want for missiles, and not like MWO implemented them, like MW4 did. Put your reticle on an enemy mech, fire and forget, and they track on the part of the mech you had your reticle over. No lock time necessary. Then missiles become somewhat supplemental firepower for when you need a weapon that "syncs" with your projectile weapons. The biggest problem with combining projectile weapons is velocity sync. It's partly why Gauss and Lasers mix so well (one of the fastest projectiles in the game and hitscan weapons) outside of the fact you are mixing high heat with almost a no heat weapon but it's also the largest problems with mixing a lot of weapons. The biggest problem then is the trajectory and velocity issue. How fast should they be and should they have an arc (the slower they are, the more they need to be able to circumvent cover better.

The other thing that's probably worth mentioning at least for long range is mount location somewhat matters less. For example the Mad Dog (at least in MW4) was notorious for being able to stick the tippy top of the cockpit over a ridge and rain missiles without any real exposure (ECM also helped).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 September 2023 - 04:59 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 04:55 PM, said:

I think this gets at the heart of the question, what purpose do missiles serve in this game. Are missile boats really just supposed to be "ez mode" but have a low skill ceiling compared to other weapons? IMO that seems pretty limiting, an entire group of weapons meant to just be crutches until people get better, the noob tube of the game if you will.

Well, yes. The hell do you expect from a homing weapon? Precision and accuracy? What do you think the homing is for? Might as well go with Lasers, ACs, and Gauss with that, at least you can land things immediately.

And so the **** what if it's a noob-toob? What the hell is wrong with that? It sounds like you simply don't like it -- when others did it that way. And now PGI being PGI sucking at designing things, tried to cater to different demographics, ended up pleasing none.

Homing weapons would necessarily be weaker by virtue of their mechanics, that is the unfortunate reality -- and trying to make them mechanically close defeats the point, and effectiveness-wise they wouldn't even measure up anyways, and they shouldn't. Why should a point-and-click homing SRMs/LRMs be as strong as a laser that you maintain face-time or AC you lead?

Ease of use and unique mechanics is what will make it relevant in the end. It's something you can reliably put in your mech, and know you are at least doing something, not as fast nor the best, but it is something.

INB4: "but you wanted LRMs be competent with other LOS weapons"

Yes, with the homing system taken account. What I simply implied is have the IDF and LOS mode of LRMs be on a separate approach, not baked into one that makes balancing hard.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 04:55 PM, said:

Too that end, honestly it feels like Streaks are really what we want for missiles, and not like MWO implemented them, like MW4 did. Put your reticle on an enemy mech, fire and forget, and they track on the part of the mech you had your reticle over. No lock time necessary.

Fair enough, and I agree. Streaks should have worked like that to begin with, on the context of it abiding by the philosophy of skill, ppfld, and min-maxing -- the gods of Comp on their religion of point-and-click. But problem is that, without lock, it's just a better SRM with longer CD and you don't have to lead. So I can see why it wouldn't be done that way.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 04:55 PM, said:

The biggest problem with combining projectile weapons is velocity sync.

And using Streaks that home to where you pointed and clicked immediately circumvents the projectile desync?

Fair enough, but tell me this -- where is the standard SRMs in all this? Hell, where is the Artemis SRM in this? So you shoot faster, but more wasteful? In the case of Clan SSRMs, you even touch people further than 270m with less spread? Sure as hell I wasn't, when I was participating Solaris I was doing SSRMS + UAC5s on my tibbers.

Look man, I like MW4 too, better hardpoint system, better missions. But something you have to understand, it's also the environment of PPFLD lasers and no-charge gauss. I think you got nostalgia-goggles for one of the most point-and-click setup of gameplay -- and quite frankly I want to avoid that.

As I said before, **** your skills. You already have pretty much every other weapon in the game that would cater to your point-and-click adventure. Let the non-comps have this.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 September 2023 - 05:56 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

They just need to bite the proverbial bullet and redesign LRMs into what they are in nearly every other incarnation of Battletech... direct fire weapons that can be fired indirect IF there is a NARC or a TAG on the target.

[JediPanther]

ScrapIron Prime, on 19 September 2023 - 05:34 PM, said:

They just need to bite the proverbial bullet and redesign LRMs into what they are in nearly every other incarnation of Battletech... direct fire weapons that can be fired indirect IF there is a NARC or a TAG on the target.

That would screw over a lot of missile mechs. Not every mech that has an m slot can mount or use narc/tag. Cptl-A has the tons but a mech with crap points and gimped by weight like the lct-3s or rvn-h are sol. Let's just forget about all those lrm ams only assult builds roaming qp.

You forget the game also awards the most for damage above every thing else. No one is going to bother with narc when it still has its seven second cool down. Waste of four-five tons minimal all that becomes. Tag is far more easier to use with a lot less weight needed.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

Well, yes. The hell do you expect from a homing weapon? Precision and accuracy? What do you think the homing is for? Might as well go with Lasers, ACs, and Gauss with that, at least you can land things immediately.

And so the **** what if it's a noob-toob? What the hell is wrong with that? It sounds like you simply don't like it -- when others did it that way. And now PGI being PGI sucking at designing things, tried to cater to different demographics, ended up pleasing none.

Because you relegate a weapon type largely to what it is now? Ignored once you get the basics? A bunch of mechs don't become utterly pointless once you reach "endgame"? Sorry, I'm not against a noob tube weapon, I'm against relegating an entire weapon type to being pretty much that when there are only three. That's just asinine, especially since some mechs are designed to be about doing just that.

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

Fair enough, and I agree. Streaks should have worked like that to begin with, on the context of it abiding by the philosophy of skill, ppfld, and min-maxing -- the gods of Comp on their religion of point-and-click. But problem is that, without lock, it's just a better SRM with longer CD and you don't have to lead. So I can see why it wouldn't be done that way.

And using Streaks that home to where you pointed and clicked immediately circumvents the projectile desync?

Point-and-click make it easier to manage but also circumvents the hardest part about non-streak missiles in MW4, having both you and the target expose long enough to get the lock since the lock was LOS based. The important idea is that it needs to be easier than trying to adjust for lead times for two different weapons with different velocities. With fire and forget missiles you can "accomplish" two at once which allows them to be used with weapons that may not supplement/synergize with others well. The more of a lock time, the more the issue becomes more of the same. Honestly I think of AC6 when it comes to this because that's kinda what missiles are in that game, and honestly missiles are way more enjoyable in that game than here or MW5.

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

Fair enough, but tell me this -- where is the standard SRMs in all this? Hell, where is the Artemis SRM in this? So you shoot faster, but more wasteful? In the case of Clan SSRMs, you even touch people further than 270m with less spread? Sure as hell I wasn't, when I was participating Solaris I was doing SSRMS + UAC5s on my tibbers.

TBH, I think MW4 was right with only giving us Streaks (at least on the Clan side). Dumb fire missiles are just crappier direct fire weapons (as they almost always have slower velocity), similar to how the AC20 is in MW5. TBH, I don't think everything in TT needs to be in this game, in fact I think the game is better FOR taking liberties with the source material. TT was not built with arena FPS games in mind so of course things are not gonna translate and it's a fools errand to think otherwise.

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

Look man, I like MW4 too, better hardpoint system, better missions. But something you have to understand, it's also the environment of PPFLD lasers and no-charge gauss. I think you got nostalgia-goggles for one of the most point-and-click setup of gameplay -- and quite frankly I want to avoid that.

Oh don't get me wrong, the firing mechanics were boring, but it was 20 years ago and the tech was different. I'm sure they could have done stuff to make weapons more interesting but meh. To be fair though, this was also the era of 56k meaning yeah, it kinda had to be near point-and-click because there was no HSR or latency compensation thing. If you wanted to hit without crazy lag-shooting, you were using hitscan, makes total sense. The important thing there was that there were ideas, and the game was better designed than MWO and MW5 probably because of some of those limitations, not in-spite of them.

Also plenty of other shooters are hitscan only and they are still deep games (CS:GO immediately comes to mind) so I didn't get why people use it as a disparaging remark. Like some how learning to lead the AC20 volleyballs from MW5 makes you a wiz kid compared to the person who practices positioning and learns where to go on maps and how to respond to various engagements. If you want a thinking man's shooter (aka a tactical shooter), then the latter is way more important.

[The6thMessenger]

JediPanther, on 19 September 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

That would screw over a lot of missile mechs. Not every mech that has an m slot can mount or use narc/tag. Cptl-A has the tons but a mech with crap points and gimped by weight like the lct-3s or rvn-h are sol. Let's just forget about all those lrm ams only assult builds roaming qp. You forget the game also awards the most for damage above every thing else. No one is going to bother with narc when it still has its seven second cool down. Waste of four-five tons minimal all that becomes. Tag is far more easier to use with a lot less weight needed.

Maybe don't build a spotter weapon to a slow-*** heavy? Point of NARC-TAG only IDF is that it requires deliberate cooperation with a DESIGNATED SPOTTER, not just some brain-dead hold-locks plz.

And if you don't have a designated spotter, you have a powerful enough weapon when used with your own locks. Problem with current setup, and comp balance, is that the homing weapons are gimped so much you might as well use legit DF weapons with the hoops you have to go over.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

Because you relegate a weapon type largely to what it is now?

It is now because of comp complaints, and PGI catering to them.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

Sorry, I'm not against a noob tube weapon, I'm against relegating an entire weapon type to being pretty much that when there are only three. That's just asinine, especially since some mechs are designed to be about doing just that.

Hmm, no, you ARE against noob weapons. They are homing weapons, that is the point, even on TT BT. There are plenty of other weapons, you don't have to stay with Missile weapons. You are selfishly hogging a weapon to cater to what you would find palatable.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

Point-and-click make it easier to manage but also circumvents the hardest part about non-streak missiles in MW4, having both you and the target expose long enough to get the lock since the lock was LOS based.

Yes, because peekaboo is much fun, I enjoy hiding behind a rock. *sarcasm*

I'm well aware of the advantage of hard-cover, the problem is that the game simply just revolves around being passive like that. IIRC some over-achieving comp hated that laser vomit wasn't legit before, that it revolves in DPS and brawl pushes -- at least the game was rolling, almost like we're playing big stompy robits.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

The important idea is that it needs to be easier than trying to adjust for lead times for two different weapons with different velocities. With fire and forget missiles you can "accomplish" two at once which allows them to be used with weapons that may not supplement/synergize with others well.

I am well aware of that too. Problem is that, what does it allow for other systems. Why take SRMs when you got SSRMs like in MW4? Why suffer the leading and getting close with SRMs, when you have the luxury of hit-and-run and safety of distance of SSRMs? Almost like you're just pushing another weapon to this common theme of point-and-click adventure.

Oh, SRM bombers still have the use for it? You mean the paltry-armored mechs that risk getting killed? Wouldn't it be safer if they can just bomb from a distance in a hit-and-run fashion than committing?

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

The more of a lock time, the more the issue becomes more of the same.

Almost like we can just make the lock-on-time shorter, near instant even, and your complaint wouldn't be valid at all.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

Honestly I think of AC6 when it comes to this because that's kinda what missiles are in that game, and honestly missiles are way more enjoyable in that game than here or MW5.

TBH, I think MW4 was right with only giving us Streaks (at least on the Clan side). Dumb fire missiles are just crappier direct fire weapons (as they almost always have slower velocity), similar to how the AC20 is in MW5. TBH, I don't think everything in TT needs to be in this game, in fact I think the game is better FOR taking liberties with the source material. TT was not built with arena FPS games in mind so of course things are not gonna translate and it's a fools errand to think otherwise.

And like I said before, go back to MW4.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

If you wanted to hit without crazy lag-shooting, you were using hitscan, makes total sense. The important thing there was that there were ideas, and the game was better designed than MWO and MW5 probably because of some of those limitations, not in-spite of them.

Yet you just want the mechanics to be basically the same, point-and-click. Yeah it's lazier to wait for lock and click, but it's different like gauss charge makes it distinct from ACs.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

Also plenty of other shooters are hitscan only and they are still deep games (CS:GO immediately comes to mind) so I didn't get why people use it as a disparaging remark.

Because MW is a different game, and you're trying to make it the same as those games, which puts into question -- why not just go to those games? ****, you haven't even played MWO for a long time right? You admitted as much.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 September 2023 - 06:33 PM.

[Haipyng]

Well, PGI has always favored a game that could be used in tournament play. They really forced it with Solaris and it bombed. Making a game that has many possible play styles and weapon systems, but only a few are winning systems will just frustrate new players that get chewed up. Maybe they should just be done with it and eliminate all the weapons systems except long-range.

[An6ryMan69]

martian, on 17 September 2023 - 08:49 PM, said:

I really do not know how PGI imagines selling the Longbow. With the current state of the MWO gameplay, I do not think that many active MWO players would be willing to buy this 'Mech, if they have the personal experience with the difficulties of the LRM use.

For a Legendary missile boat to be a real thing in a game so leaned against LRM's, you'd basically have to perk it like -

Missile lock time -50%
Missile ammunition +25%
Missile range +20%
Missile cooldown -20%
Missile heat -20%
Plus defensive bonuses

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

Hmm, no, you ARE against noob weapons. There are plenty of other weapons, you don't have to stay with Missile weapons. You are selfishly hogging a weapon to cater to what you would find palatable.

No, there is a difference between making an entire class of weapons "noob" friendly (when there are mechs designed around those same weapons) and being against noob weapons. I'm not sure why you aren't fitting that through your thick skull. My problem isn't necessarily the weapons, its that I don't want a third of the game to effectively just be aimed at new players and only new players. The more mechs/weapons we have that are viable in all fields of play the better the game is imo.

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yes, because peekaboo is much fun, I enjoy hiding behind a rock. *sarcasm*

Yes, because rushing straight at each other while go guns ablazing, I enjoy smashing my face into a keyboard and winning. *sarcasm*
I can do strawmen arguments too, go on somewhere with that.

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

I'm well aware of the advantage of hard-cover, the problem is that the game simply just revolves around being passive like that. IIRC some over-achieving comp hated that laser vomit wasn't legit before, that it revolves in DPS and brawl pushes -- at least the game was rolling, almost like we're playing big stompy robits.

Welcome to PUGs? You are literally complaining about something that is common in every game. You either have the player that thinks they are invincible or should be and rushes in to their death. Or camper McGee who gives up terrain because they are scared to shoot and spends the entire game backpedaling...to their death. However you don't win this game by being passive, not sure where you ever got that. Especially if you are carrying, there is so little time and so many mechs to mow down to play passively.

Bad maps don't help, they've been actively ruining several maps that were once enjoyable by turning them into bowls that just scream ERLL spam for days. I'm just glad they haven't touched Mining Collective, which is probably the best map in the game currently.

Also to be clear, A LOT of comp players miss the Splatapult, Boomapult, and Splatcent days, those were incredibly enjoyable. Not something I would do every day but yeah, was a lot of fun. The closest we ever got back to that was cSPL Nova/Gargoyle rushes before cSPL was over-nerfed way back when (comps didn't ask for it, but Paul deemed it so). Dakka Mauler days were fun too. Again, hate to break it to you, but comps are all about PPFLD like you seem to think they are. A lot of them did enjoy the Jumptart days of the Highlander, Victor, and Cataphract, but it wasn't all they enjoyed, they wouldn't have stuck around for as long as they did if that were true.

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

I am well aware of that too. Problem is that, what does it allow for other systems. Why take SRMs when you got SSRMs like in MW4? Why suffer the leading and getting close with SRMs, when you have the luxury of hit-and-run and safety of distance of SSRMs? Almost like you're just pushing another weapon to this common theme of point-and-click adventure.

Like I said, just because its in the universe doesn't mean it should exist in the game. That was me hinting at maybe they shouldn't coexist, maybe it should just be SSRMs in the game (or SRMs should just behave like SSRMs, take your pick).

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

Almost like we can just make the lock-on-time shorter, near instant even, and your complaint wouldn't be valid at all.

Oh it still would, because the mechanics of how missiles work are different. AMS works different than in MW4, ECM works different than in MW4, missile locks work different in MW4, missile tracking works different in MW4, missile trajectories work different than in MW4 (MW4 had a progressive trajectory iirc, if target is less than 50% away it would not arc at all). So yeah, a bit like comparing apples to oranges but sure, if you ignore everything else it would totally work

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yet you just want the mechanics to be basically the same, point-and-click. Yeah it's lazier to wait for lock and click, but it's different like gauss charge makes it distinct from ACs.

Yes, because Gauss can fly in arcs and track targets
Borderlands totally didn't have homing weapons and treat them as unique however unwieldy (which is worth bringing up because firing mechanics wise, Borderlands has been the most interesting).

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

Because MW is a different game, and you're trying to make it the same as those games, which puts into question -- why not just go to those games? ****, you haven't even played MWO for a long time right? You admitted as much.

Oh FFS, Mechwarrior isn't as different as you seem to think it does, even before the cauldron ever came into existence to haunt your dreams of whatever Mechwarrior you thought you wanted, what it took to be good at this game was similar to shooters. CS:GO is the closest because it is the one that focused on No Respawn more than any other (enough that CoD copied it). It is "slower" paced than other FPS, it's more tactical without being overwhelming (like Valorant or Overwatch) and focuses heavily on positioning which is something Mechwarrior has in common. However mechwarrior has some distinctions with the locational damage, slower play, and limited ability to flick so reaction speed isn't as important as smoother aim and ability to lead targets. Plus its stompy robots.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 September 2023 - 07:11 PM.

[JediPanther]

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 06:00 PM, said:

Maybe don't build a spotter weapon to a slow-*** heavy? Point of NARC-TAG only IDF is that it requires deliberate cooperation with a DESIGNATED SPOTTER, not just some brain-dead hold-locks plz.

And if you don't have a designated spotter, you have a powerful enough weapon when used with your own locks. Problem with current setup, and comp balance, is that the homing weapons are gimped so much you might as well use legit DF weapons with the hoops you have to go over.

Maybe not make a shity spotter weapon that sucks so much you need a slower heavy mech to even mount and use it.

[martian]

An6ryMan69, on 19 September 2023 - 06:44 PM, said:

For a Legendary missile boat to be a real thing in a game so leaned against LRM's, you'd basically have to perk it like -

Missile lock time -50%
Missile ammunition +25%
Missile range +20%
Missile cooldown -20%
Missile heat -20%
Plus defensive bonuses

Yes, I can imagine PGI doing something like that for the Hero/Legendary variant. The Scaleshot can serve as an example.

But I do not think that they would give such generous quirks to the other 4-5 normal Longbow variants released simultaneously.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you aren't fitting that through your thick skull.

No, what YOU are not fitting YOUR skull, is that I am referring exactly to easy weapons that is easy to use, that is what you signed up with when you quoted me about "easy mode" -- I know what I was talking about, I was the one who said it. ****, that is why N00b-T00b was coined, it's because it's easy use allows for easy skill.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

My problem isn't necessarily the weapons, its that I don't want a third of the game to effectively just be aimed at new players and only new players. The more mechs/weapons we have that are viable in all fields of play the better the game is imo.

And another thing that YOU are not fitting YOUR skull, is that the game isn't just yours, people get to play on their own way. So the **** what if homing weapons are catered to low-skill easy-to-use-weapons? You got other weapons that fit exactly to the specification YOU want in an encounter, say a peekaboo combat.

Oh, you want homing weapons be viable in the fields of play, by shoehorning everything into the peekaboo meta. Please. Again, just use those specific other weapons.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

I can do strawmen arguments too, go on somewhere with that.

Here's another fallacy for you, fallacy-fallacy.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Welcome to PUGs?

I don't know what to tell you. It being common, does not make it good, nor everyone else doing it make it justified. The weapon balance set up by the Comp still only facilitates THEIR idea of how the game should be played, not how others want it played.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Also to be clear, A LOT of comp players miss the Splatapult, Boomapult, and Splatcent days, those were incredibly enjoyable.

Lot of which aren't homing missile build, so what use it is for this discussion? Since we're tossing fallacies, red-herring comes to mind.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Like I said, just because its in the universe doesn't mean it should exist in the game.

Sure, but it exists here however. And a degree of protection against missiles is also a good thing, it's the fault of SRMs not being buffed enough. Not because you like it, means it's sacred.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

That was me hinting at maybe they shouldn't coexist

Exactly why you should go back to MW4 instead of being here, to a game you haven't touched for months.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Oh it still would, because the mechanics of how missiles work are different.

What, you think you got a silver-bullet? Methinks you don't know how to read back. Dude we're talking about the translation of MW4 Streaks to MWO Streaks, and I agreed with the homing system circumventing projectile desync.

But your thesis of making the same setup to MWO problematic by virtue of long lock time, is solved by having shorter to near instantaneous lock time, what the **** are you going on about? You don't even have to aim precisely, just 25-degrees within your reticle, that which also provides a bit of leeway when trying to lead your shots with an AC.

Who TF suggested longer locking time anyways? Likewise we're talking about streaks, what TF are you going on about the difference in arc? Those are LRMs and not the point of contention.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Yes, because Gauss can fly in arcs and track targets

Except it's heat-neutral, flies really fast, and really far.

But hey please, keep making strawmen.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Borderlands

I don't care about borderlands.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 September 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

Oh FFS, Mechwarrior isn't as different as you seem to think it does

Sure. So why don't you go back to playing MW4?

Go on.

JediPanther, on 19 September 2023 - 07:23 PM, said:

Maybe not make a shity spotter weapon that sucks so much you need a slower heavy mech to even mount and use it.

I don't know what to tell you, it comes with the territory.

Lights are fast, nimble, able to reposition very well, and slow fat-*** assaults aren't by comparison.

Might as well ask a 200 kph 100-tonner.

martian, on 19 September 2023 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yes, I can imagine PGI doing something like that for the Hero/Legendary variant. The Scaleshot can serve as an example.

But I do not think that they would give such generous quirks to the other 4-5 normal Longbow variants released simultaneously.

It's really dumb that the balance overlords solved the weapon problem by quirks.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 September 2023 - 09:51 PM.

[VaelophisNyx]

reminder to people complaining about others saying only heavys/assaults can pull off NARC/TAGs: Lights are very energy/missile mount sparse in general, and that this game rewards only YOUR direct damage meaningfully. You will very rarely see a non-grouped light using any sort of targeting weapon, so larger mechs with more mounts and tons to spare usually have to carry them, but in the gameplay balance where weapons that benefit from them are routinely nerfed, no one wants to bother

it's an entire mount and up to 4+ tons you could use on another gun anyway

[ScrapIron Prime]

JediPanther, on 19 September 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

That would screw over a lot of missile mechs. Not every mech that has an m slot can mount or use narc/tag.

That's not even a consideration. If you're the missile mech and you want to fire indirect, a TAG on your own mech will by definition not be in line of sight. Firing indirect requires a mech to spot for you, and therefore it is powerful. Without that spotter, you are direct fire only.

Since there is little incentive to be a TAG mech solo dropping, indirect fire will mostly be relegated to people who drop in groups. Yes, that might make groups even more rage-inducing, but I think its a lot better to be killed by people using teamwork than to be rained to death by one potato solo dropping in an LRM 120 assault mech.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 19 September 2023 - 09:49 PM, said:

stuff

Look I'm done with the quote war because you are just straight up trying to have a dishonest discussion. Strawmen, generalizations, moving goal posts, etc; anything and everything is somehow the comp players problems and we want a "dumbed" down game. Grow up .

Maybe MWO2 or online MW5/6 will be CoD of mechs as the greatest irony of people complaining about how this game is that; that's what they want the game to become.

• CoF on alphas? CoD had CoF and reticle bloom up until the newest Modern Warfares where they finally introduced predictable recoil.
  
• Cover? CoD even to this day is about shooting and moving, nobody has time for cover.
  
• Skill-based matchmaking? CoD players exploded (even some of their "competitive" players) when Activision dared to announce that you might actually be challenged and certain people couldn't just stomp servers (because Activision added skill-based matchmaking as well as the predictable recoil).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 September 2023 - 09:26 AM.