138 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

and zero, on 14 November 2023 - 07:10 PM, said:

Thank god at least poptartng seems to be dead. That looked so stupid.

epikt, on 14 November 2023 - 07:56 PM, said:

Oh, as someone who plays a poptart in more than half my drops, I can tell you poptarting is definitely not dead.
(it might depend of when you did quit, there was a time in the early days when assaults mechs poptarted, nowadays poptarts are mostly fast mobile mechs like the Vapor Eagle)

Yeah, the Bad old Days where poptarting was the only viable top-level build are gone, and good riddance - but you can still be bouncy with plenty of 'mechs, and that's ok.

Slow 'mechs can brawl successfully, but it becomes a patience game; you basically have to hide and ambush people, picking your engagements. But at the right place and time, a 53kph Atlas can still wreck people fast. Overall, though, brawling with slow 'mechs is a risky, high-skill proposition which is heavily influenced by chance.

[KursedVixen]

Weeny Machine, on 15 November 2023 - 11:40 AM, said:

Can't they use simply the old models or would that also be too much workload? Honest question, I am no programmer

The old models may not exist anymore and could have been deleted... If they exist swapping them out should be easy ,but they have to still exist.


I don't know about the particular code for this game but in my expierence models like in this can can bet swapped out like omnipods...though I dunno about the hit boxes but usually in programming we have things called variables that represent values, and other changable objects it depends on how well this game is coded and if the comments above such code display correctly and accurately what is below it.

in programming a String is a set of letters, like a simple word. the code that uses the models may simply be a string pointing to the model file itself, but as I said before it has to exist.

Here's a really basic example If I'm not explaining this correctly or to a point you understand

say you have a picture file you want to use for a particular background it's located in C:/Pictures/Photoname

so in the programming code for the background you would put in the String "C:Pictures/Photoname" this is a fairly basic example and the actual contents you put inside the String may very depending on the programming language and the purpose of the code.

IT could be as simple as having the photo you want to use in the files of the progam itself in which case you probably could just type "Photoname" in the string...

Edited by KursedVixen, 15 November 2023 - 01:37 PM.

[Void Angel]

PS: the forum definitely can be an echo chamber, with a number of posters (past an present) being willing to shoehorn their personal hobby horse into every conversation, or simply shout down opposition. (This has even happened in Other Forums.) So if the devs don't spend a lot of time straining the salt for diamonds, can I blame them too much? It may not be fair, but if you want to be sure your feedback gets into the decision-making loop, going to the official Discord for the people who make balance recommendations is a good suggestion.

PPS: It doesn't matter that Discord is a "third-party" platform. It's the most ubiquitous messaging platform on the internet; freaking phone games have a Discord. That's a stupid objection, so if that's all you got, sit down.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 15 November 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

PS: the forum definitely can be an echo chamber, with a number of posters (past an present) being willing to shoehorn their personal hobby horse into every conversation, or simply shout down opposition. (This has even happened in Other Forums.) So if the devs don't spend a lot of time straining the salt for diamonds, can I blame them too much? It may not be fair, but if you want to be sure your feedback gets into the decision-making loop, going to the official Discord for the people who make balance recommendations is a good suggestion.

PPS: It doesn't matter that Discord is a "third-party" platform. It's the most ubiquitous messaging platform on the internet; freaking phone games have a Discord. That's a stupid objection, so if that's all you got, sit down.

where is the link to this discord? also like the forum the disord needs a link to go to and is not a website so while you need a link you also need to use discord seperately or in a web browser I have not seen the link to the MWO discord mentioned anywhere...

[Moadebe]

KursedVixen, on 15 November 2023 - 02:55 PM, said:

where is the link to this discord? also like the forum the disord needs a link to go to and is not a website so while you need a link you also need to use discord seperately or in a web browser I have not seen the link to the MWO discord mentioned anywhere...

The original post on this very thread has the link. It might open up in a browser cause you are using a browser but that can be copied and pasted into the discord invite section.

[Bud Crue]

Late to the party on this, but I'll say my peace anyway...

As to the proposed changes:
I have never seen a Scaleshot running AMS. Ever. I doubt very much that the ro8 change will get any one to waste the tonnage going forward.
The changes to the other mechs are all meh, though I do like the extra armor for the Protector.

As to the weapons, extra ammo is always nice. The changes to HAG spread are, frankly, nuts. Of the posters above, who imply that HAGs are not common place in their games nor dominant when they are present, are not playing the same games I am playing. I am solidly Tier 2 and in my games they are ubiquitous and more often than not dominant. I truly can't fathom how the powers that be can perceive these weapons as needing any sort of buffs.

That Centurion, man, that shield arm still bugs me. It ought to be 156 max armor. Standard armor, plus 100 from the 4 ton shield. I'm not sure what offends me here, but I think it's that a 4 ton shield comes with a perceptible 24 pt. penalty.

Command console. I like it, but I think only snipers (as if they need more help) and LRM boats will really benefit from it; also I see the text about heavies and assaults...didn't it used to be only 75 tonners for the heavies? I am assuming now ANY heavy can run it?

[KursedVixen]

Bud Crue, on 15 November 2023 - 03:43 PM, said:

Late to the party on this, but I'll say my peace anyway...

As to the proposed changes:
I have never seen a Scaleshot running AMS. Ever. I doubt very much that the ro8 change will get any one to waste the tonnage going forward.
The changes to the other mechs are all meh, though I do like the extra armor for the Protector.

As to the weapons, extra ammo is always nice. The changes to HAG spread are, frankly, nuts. Of the posters above, who imply that HAGs are not common place in their games nor dominant when they are present, are not playing the same games I am playing. I am solidly Tier 2 and in my games they are ubiquitous and more often than not dominant. I truly can't fathom how the powers that be can perceive these weapons as needing any sort of buffs.

That Centurion, man, that shield arm still bugs me. It ought to be 156 max armor. Standard armor, plus 100 from the 4 ton shield. I'm not sure what offends me here, but I think it's that a 4 ton shield comes with a perceptible 24 pt. penalty.

Command console. I like it, but I think only snipers (as if they need more help) and LRM boats will really benefit from it; also I see the text about heavies and assaults...didn't it used to be only 75 tonners for the heavies? I am assuming now ANY heavy can run it?

would you be for making the HAg a mid range weapon instead of a Sniper weapon to keep it separate from the gauss rifle?

[LordNothing]

Void Angel, on 15 November 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

PS: the forum definitely can be an echo chamber, with a number of posters (past an present) being willing to shoehorn their personal hobby horse into every conversation, or simply shout down opposition. (This has even happened in Other Forums.) So if the devs don't spend a lot of time straining the salt for diamonds, can I blame them too much? It may not be fair, but if you want to be sure your feedback gets into the decision-making loop, going to the official Discord for the people who make balance recommendations is a good suggestion.

PPS: It doesn't matter that Discord is a "third-party" platform. It's the most ubiquitous messaging platform on the internet; freaking phone games have a Discord. That's a stupid objection, so if that's all you got, sit down.

discord only permits satan worshipers. phones are pretty much the mark of the beast. now show the man with the skull on his hat your papers.

couldnt even use discord if i wanted to. they wont let me log in. no mark of the beast to show them. tried showing them my stack of behemoth ablums but that didn't work.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 November 2023 - 04:26 PM.

[Bud Crue]

KursedVixen, on 15 November 2023 - 04:10 PM, said:

would you be for making the HAg a mid range weapon instead of a Sniper weapon to keep it separate from the gauss rifle?

Honestly, I find it most effective at mid range already. The fact that it can also be an effective sniper is what makes it borderline OP.

[Vonbach]

Bud Crue, on 15 November 2023 - 04:57 PM, said:

Honestly, I find it most effective at mid range already. The fact that it can also be an effective sniper is what makes it borderline OP.

"Borderline OP" Lol. It is OP.

[Frost_Byte]

Der Geisterbaer, on 15 November 2023 - 04:02 AM, said:

You writing with an official PGI account certainly makes it look like an official stance from PGI ... which could only be surpassed if you were to use the derogative term "brown sea" that some users regularly sling around.

I do occasionally refer to the forums as the brown sea
I call the steam forums the blue sea. Do people even use that still? I haven't been there in ages. Not for MWO, but games in general.


I usually hop between my blue name account and my personal account depending on what I'm saying and what message I'm trying to get across but Tiy0s and Frost Byte as the same. Ideally, the name behind the message shouldn't matter at all. But, as both a PGI member and a Cauldron member, the forums just aren't conducive for an active conversation and make it difficult.


We have taken feedback from the server, sometimes it's everyone telling us we've gone too far on a nerf, haven't gone far enough, sometimes it gets our attention that something that missed our attention needs a buff. The server has its purpose, if we had no plans on listening to the playerbase I'd have opted to ask the right people to just delete the server. The Cauldron is a part of the playerbase, same as everyone else. They're not some otherworldly entity that has alien goals for MWO. They don't even have that much of a sniper bias, in fact internally usually any buffs to ERLLs or things like that get shot down.




Someone else made a comment asking why we're removing HAG spread. HAG spread is already so low that it is not difficult to drill someone at range if you have enough skill. The spread is going from effectively zero to just zero. A marginal change, not very impactful to be honest. But the heat nerf is quite impactful and I'm hoping that it will severely curb the farm ability the weapon has. My favorite part is the knowledge that, if HAGs are still too strong post patch, we'll just nerf it again. This isn't the last patch, if things aren't where we want to be, we'll adjust in the Dec patch. And so on and so forth.

[Richard Hazen]

I'm reading battletech novels atm, every time I read someone using LRMs and them being effective it makes me want to play the game, but then I remember how impractical LRMs are atm, at least in high tier games. So I am hoping some changes will occur because even if you go out of your way to fire LRMs directly you still have so many issues to deal with that they really don't contribute enough.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

I do occasionally refer to the forums as the brown sea

Well thank you for confirming that rather unfortunate attitude of yours. That makes it even easier not to be too eager to go to the discord you're advocating for.

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

I usually hop between my blue name account and my personal account depending on what I'm saying and what message I'm trying to get across but Tiy0s and Frost Byte as the same.

As it should be. Unfortunately in this particular instance - IMO - switching to Tiy0s would have been the proper way to do it.

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

Ideally, the name behind the message shouldn't matter at all.

Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world and the person as well as the name behind a message very much matter depending on the role that the person is acting in. Expressing personal opinions / using terminology that can be interpreted as dismissive / condescending / outright insulting with your official PGI account will leave a "very sour" feeling for quite a number of the people that you try to reach instead of just "sour".

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

But, as both a PGI member and a Cauldron member, the forums just aren't conducive for an active conversation

That's a problem you'll have to solve on your own and live with the backlash whenever people feel offended after you posting in your official capacity.

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

We have taken feedback from the server, sometimes it's everyone telling us we've gone too far on a nerf, haven't gone far enough, sometimes it gets our attention that something that missed our attention needs a buff. The server has its purpose, if we had no plans on listening to the playerbase I'd have opted to ask the right people to just delete the server. The Cauldron is a part of the playerbase, same as everyone else. They're not some otherworldly entity that has alien goals for MWO. They don't even have that much of a sniper bias, in fact internally usually any buffs to ERLLs or things like that get shot down.

For various reasons people don't seem to trust in that "open mindedness" and instead seem to consider it a place that is an echo chamber . Take a guess why that might be.

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

Someone else made a comment asking why we're removing HAG spread. HAG spread is already so low that it is not difficult to drill someone at range if you have enough skill. The spread is going from effectively zero to just zero. A marginal change, not very impactful to be honest.

The problem seems to be that people thought that the spread should have been increased in order to counteract the perceived "sniper" characteristics. You now telling us that the previous spread was meaningless for good "snipers" and thus has been removed entirely is exactly the type of message that suggests "you guys" did not necessarily "listen" and are indeed "biased" in favour of long(er)- range "snipe-fests".

Frost_Byte, on 15 November 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

But the heat nerf is quite impactful and I'm hoping that it will severely curb the farm ability the weapon has. My favorite part is the knowledge that, if HAGs are still too strong post patch, we'll just nerf it again. This isn't the last patch, if things aren't where we want to be, we'll adjust in the Dec patch. And so on and so forth.

While this objectively is a sound approach what do you think the more subjective perception about "the cauldron knows what they are doing" is created there should HAGs still end up being "too strong" and still play into the "sniper" narr5ative for how many consecutive months/patches now?

[Besh]

Void Angel, on 15 November 2023 - 01:16 PM, said:

Yeah, the Bad old Days where poptarting was the only viable top-level build are gone, and good riddance - but you can still be bouncy with plenty of 'mechs, and that's ok.

Slow 'mechs can brawl successfully, but it becomes a patience game; you basically have to hide and ambush people, picking your engagements. But at the right place and time, a 53kph Atlas can still wreck people fast. Overall, though, brawling with slow 'mechs is a risky, high-skill proposition which is heavily influenced by chance.

I am aware Gamplay probably differs much in QP due to Tier ( I write probably 'cos I wouldnt know, and I get different signals from the few comments on these Forums about this ) .

I have been off the Game for ~3 years, and am t5 now . I am starting to see good success in my Solo QP matches when people realize I am overwatching some avenue ( I started calling it out ) as well as me watching for the field of view/field of fire the sniper high up behind me has, and moving accordingly . Imo, thats already a lot of what it needs for Brawl to actually happen .

I think MW:O does not do enough to promote Teamwork . Players who are experienced in it do it naturally . But generally, at least at my SoloQP matches, many if not most of them are plagued by a good portion of the Players not really caring much for what happens to their Team, or working with the Team . MW:O provides ample tools for Superstar Solos and Wolfpacks (both of which often are piloted by very experienced players simply wrecking/harassing a good part the OpFor with fast moving "meta" Mechs) . I see both a lot in my Qp Matches . I also see a lot of people trying to emulate them and fail .

I have no ideas or solutions for how to emphasize and promote the Teamwork aspects of MW:O. I just think it will be beneficial to get a conversation started about this, and get ideas flowing . I do see it becoming difficult though, since the "division by what is perceived as skill" mindsets seem to be very much ingrained in a good portion of *particiapting on Forums/in discussions and dialogue* people .

We need to get more people involved . New players, perpetual t5, t4, t3 players. LongTerm players with ample experience who simply never voice their opinions . We need to find ways to hear as many different stories about "What is the Game like for you" as we can - if we intend to keep it going, and probably even attract new people and make them stay .

Maybe start thinking about surveys . Simple 2-3 option/click after match (ofc provide option to globally opt out ). Regular ( monthly?) on this site, or via email if opted in . Ask people "Why do you think you are loosing matches . Which is the worst WeaponSystem ? Which is your preferred Weaponsystem ? Do you know about all the Game mechanics ?" All that kindof stuff . Not for creating a "now lets act on this, immediately" set, but just to get more input .

And we need to get the wiki updated and keep it going and promote it again .

Edited by Besh, 16 November 2023 - 12:59 AM.

[Aivazovsky]

Der Geisterbaer, on 15 November 2023 - 10:52 AM, said:

Overall the statement in question was and still is less than ideal when it comes to inviting people to participate on said Discord server.

I agree, people like you are what this game needs. PGI doesn't have a community manager, but i can see you have a predisposition and gift for the position. Unfortunately, the budget is 0$. How many hours a week are you willing to devote to making MWO better by being a censor and spokesperson for Frost_Byte?

[Curccu]

Aivazovsky, on 16 November 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

I agree, people like you are what this game needs. PGI doesn't have a community manager, but i can see you have a predisposition and gift for the position. Unfortunately, the budget is 0$. How many hours a week are you willing to devote to making MWO better by being a censor and spokesperson for Frost_Byte?

Daeron Katz is PGIs community manager.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Aivazovsky, on 16 November 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

I agree, people like you are what this game needs.

Considering the rest of your comment I'm fairly confident that this should have been labeled with a /s.

Aivazovsky, on 16 November 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

PGI doesn't have a community manager,

Daeron Katz might want to have word with you there.

Aivazovsky, on 16 November 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

but i can see you have a predisposition and gift for the position.

Under the purely hypothetical assumption of you actually thinking that: What exactly in my comments about how people seem to react to certain statements by Frost_Byte show an actual predisposition and / or gift for such a position.

Aivazovsky, on 16 November 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

Unfortunately, the budget is 0$. How many hours a week are you willing to devote to making MWO better by being a censor and spokesperson for Frost_Byte?

Why would I want to take on the role of "his spokesperson" for matters that are clearly not in relation to his official position at PGI?
As far as "censoring" him is concerned when commenting here on the forums under his official PGI account: That's ultinately Daeron's or Matt's Job. I'll stick to providing feedback on his comments as I see fit within my role as forum user

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 16 November 2023 - 02:30 AM.

[epikt]

Der Geisterbaer, on 16 November 2023 - 02:30 AM, said:

Daeron Katz might want to have word with you there.

If only he wasn't AFK...

[KursedVixen]

Welp guess we're getting the sniper HAGs Cauldron want but nobody else wants... i went to the discord and expressed my displeasure but no dice....

Edited by KursedVixen, 16 November 2023 - 07:03 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

LordNothing, on 15 November 2023 - 11:51 AM, said:

change the scale factors. they did do some geometry tweaks on a few outliers, but not many, most were just basic refactoring. neither of these require programming talent. simple number changes. frankly id just scale the jenners and call it a day. its an awkwardly shaped mech and is an outlier because of it. all the man wakler 35 tonners look fine. you might reduce the cougar, maybe the adder the kitfox, but fix the jenner and lights start looking good again.

In addition to scaling the mech, you also have to scale each bolt on made for it separately. And just changing the size of the bolt on won't fix it, as it will hover near the smaller mech where the original body part used to be, so you have to work the XYZ of the thing too.

I mean, its all doable, but it's dedicated work for each mech chassis. And this is evidently very low on the list of priorities.