138 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2023 - 01:52 PM, said:

lolwut, they were definitely not "fine" at range the patch before this, I can't say about day 1 but I have my doubts given how bad the spread was before the latest patch. Let alone better than ERPPCs


What HAG dominance? I still haven't seen HAGs in any serious number, nowhere near when snubs were obviously OP. I don't even think they are the most dangerous mechs on the field right now. I'm more scared of BLC laser vomit than I am HAG boats.

i noticed in testing grounds my hags spreading at just 500m

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 04:27 PM, said:

i noticed in testing grounds my hags spreading at just 500m

You can core out an Atlas with zero component splash from 1km. Aim better.

[KursedVixen]

Meep Meep, on 14 November 2023 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hags are great at farming damage but the pellet stream makes spreading damage fairly easy unless you just stare at them and allow them to pinpoint a component.

yep twist is key I've been killed more by Binaries and X pulse than Hags since the patch that introduced them.

foamyesque, on 14 November 2023 - 04:27 PM, said:

You can core out an Atlas with zero component splash from 1km. Aim better.

what if the atlas twist? what if he's moving what if your bad at aiming let's just all assume everyone has a perfect aim...... OR NOT

Edited by KursedVixen, 14 November 2023 - 04:35 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

foamyesque, on 14 November 2023 - 03:48 PM, said:

Post patch that'll be 78% (assuming a 5s cycle time given charge & burst duration). It's not disingenuous, because getting heat-efficient damage out means you can stack more guns in without having to pay for that in cooling taxes, and even if you don't put more guns on being able to sustain damage output is a real advantage.

It is disingenuous because you are focusing on specific part of the weapon rather than builds that leverage them. Yes heat is part of what allows them to combine well with lasers but less so now. I think honestly we will be back to Guass + moar lasers over HAGs + lasers. ERPPCs are still really cheap tonnage wise that allow you to bracket build and poptart due to having no charge up or duration like HAGs. Yeah, HAGs on paper look nice, but honestly I think even currently I prefer 2 cERPPCs or 4 cERPPC builds over HAG20s and HAG40 builds. Double HAG30 is honestly the sweet spot for HAGs IMO which is reminiscent of MRMs in that regard.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 November 2023 - 04:45 PM.

[Void Angel]

epikt, on 14 November 2023 - 11:39 AM, said:

I personally run 1 armor point on the back of all my lights, and to be honest I should run zero - if only I listened to reason and not my OCD telling me it's not "lore friendly to have parts without armor".... )

Nah, you still want a little, just to avoid grazing laser damage from causing critical hits and killing your ECM or heat sinks.

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 04:28 PM, said:

what if the atlas twist? what if he's moving what if your bad at aiming let's just all assume everyone has a perfect aim...... OR NOT

Well, the only one of those things that matters in Testing Grounds -- which is where you said you saw spread! -- is in fact your own aim.

[Void Angel]

Meep Meep, on 14 November 2023 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hags are great at farming damage but the pellet stream makes spreading damage fairly easy unless you just stare at them and allow them to pinpoint a component.

Or they hit you when you're dealing with another threat, because you hadn't seen that MAD IIC-D pop out of cover yet. If you know the HAG is there and have the cognitive space free to deal with him, it's not any harder to spread than a laser burn - but that's not always going to be the case, particularly with a HAG shooting into an existing fight or supporting from the high vantage points provided in a lot of the maps.

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2023 - 01:52 PM, said:

What HAG dominance? I still haven't seen HAGs in any serious number, nowhere near when snubs were obviously OP. I don't even think they are the most dangerous mechs on the field right now. I'm more scared of BLC laser vomit than I am HAG boats.

To be fair, I cannot remember the last time I saw a Gauss Rifle in my matches. They're not everywhere like SNPPCs, but nearly everyone has subbed them in for Gauss Rifles in their Gaussvomit builds, by my anecdotal recollection.

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2023 - 04:44 PM, said:

It is disingenuous because you are focusing on specific part of the weapon rather than builds that leverage them. Yes heat is part of what allows them to combine well with lasers but less so now. I think honestly we will be back to Guass + moar lasers over HAGs + lasers. ERPPCs are still really cheap tonnage wise that allow you to bracket build and poptart due to having no charge up or duration like HAGs. Yeah, HAGs on paper look nice, but honestly I think even currently I prefer 2 cERPPCs or 4 cERPPC builds over HAG20s and HAG40 builds. Double HAG30 is honestly the sweet spot for HAGs IMO which is reminiscent of MRMs in that regard.

2 30's or 40's work best on big slow mechs that either can't get out of the way fast enough, or want to blow out as much damage as possible per poke, or that have enough armor to get poked back.

Void Angel, on 14 November 2023 - 05:06 PM, said:

To be fair, I cannot remember the last time I saw a Gauss Rifle in my matches. They're not everywhere like SNPPCs, but nearly everyone has subbed them in for Gauss Rifles in their Gaussvomit builds, by my anecdotal recollection.

Funny as I still see Dual gauss thanatos all the time and still get hit with gauss slugs i can tell as the HAgs hit in burst while the guass is a single loud and annoying thud..... maybe you should drop your tier one and play in the lowere tiers.

[and zero]

epikt, on 14 November 2023 - 07:01 AM, said:

What community?
Oh, you're probably talking about the very vocal whiners haunting this forums that have no clue about this game...

For every player who cares enough to complain on a games forums, there are many more who will just say “I’m not having fun” and silently leave. So it’s a mistake to discount the problems dedicated players have even if they aren’t right about the solutions.

Personally it seems like the HAG spread was already very negligible, I’m just not sure about putting them even more into a sniper role box.

My rank reset and tier 5 is pretty messy but even still there’s a lot of poke and peak. I can only assume the high tiers are an order of magnitude worse.

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 05:19 PM, said:

2 30's or 40's work best on big slow mechs that either can't get out of the way fast enough, or want to blow out as much damage as possible per poke, or that have enough armor to get poked back.

Funny as I still see Dual gauss thanatos all the time and still get hit with gauss slugs i can tell as the HAgs hit in burst while the guass is a single loud and annoying thud..... maybe you should drop your tier one and play in the lowere tiers.

Funny, as I don't trust your anecdotal stories - given your predilection for making things up to suit your own ends. I am, as you point out, Tier 1, and talking to a Tier 1. I really don't care what you see in the steering-wheel underhive. Bad players may use bad builds, but the ones that know what they're doing have largely adopted HAGs for their Gaussvomit builds.

and zero, on 14 November 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

For every player who cares enough to complain on a games forums, there are many more who will just say “I’m not having fun” and silently leave. So it’s a mistake to discount the problems dedicated players have even if they aren’t right about the solutions.

Personally it seems like the HAG spread was already very negligible, I’m just not sure about putting them even more into a sniper role box.

My rank reset and tier 5 is pretty messy but even still there’s a lot of poke and peak. I can only assume the high tiers are an order of magnitude worse.

I wouldn't call it "worse," but yeah, there are a lot of trading builds, along with more mobile flankers, and brawling loadouts. Brawling is rarest, particularly in larger 'mechs, but you still see all kinds - even an LRM resurgence for some reason I haven't been able to parse out. =]

[and zero]

Void Angel, on 14 November 2023 - 06:55 PM, said:

I wouldn't call it "worse," but yeah, there are a lot of trading builds, along with more mobile flankers, and brawling loadouts. Brawling is rarest, particularly in larger 'mechs, but you still see all kinds - even an LRM resurgence for some reason I haven't been able to parse out. =]

That sounds pretty appealing actually xD Although it’s kinda sad when the biggest mechs can’t brawl without getting melted so fast. I’ll get there eventually when I’m not stuck playing on steam deck, literally a steering wheel player as you called it haha.

I think a big part of the issue may actually be the game modes as well. In drop deck even though peek and poke is still quite important, there’s a lot less pressure since of course you have 3 other mechs.

The best part of mechwarrior I think is-theoretically-the combat variety. So that’s mainly why I don’t like when it’s a peek poke fest until 1 team has lost 2 to 3 mechs to sniping and then it’s time to steamroll. Thank god at least poptartng seems to be dead. That looked so stupid.

Edited by and zero, 14 November 2023 - 07:11 PM.

[epikt]

and zero, on 14 November 2023 - 07:10 PM, said:

Although it’s kinda sad when the biggest mechs can’t brawl without getting melted so fast.

Slow mech can't brawl, but not all big mech are slow.
There are fast assaults like the Executioner, Gargoyle, Charger, Stone Rhino Koloss, Kodiak Spirit Bear, etc make good brawlers.

Quote

Thank god at least poptartng seems to be dead. That looked so stupid.

Oh, as someone who plays a poptart in more than half my drops, I can tell you poptarting is definitely not dead.
(it might depend of when you did quit, there was a time in the early days when assaults mechs poptarted, nowadays poptarts are mostly fast mobile mechs like the Vapor Eagle)

[RabidBeagles]

I appreciate the rework on the "Advanced Sensor Package" -- even just the reduced weight is a big thing -- but I don't see how it is so radically different from CC that would necessitate a change in name.

Please keep calling it Command Console.

[Meep Meep]

Void Angel, on 14 November 2023 - 05:02 PM, said:

Or they hit you when you're dealing with another threat, because you hadn't seen that MAD IIC-D pop out of cover yet. If you know the HAG is there and have the cognitive space free to deal with him, it's not any harder to spread than a laser burn - but that's not always going to be the case, particularly with a HAG shooting into an existing fight or supporting from the high vantage points provided in a lot of the maps.

But wouldn't that be true for any boated weapons?

[JediPanther]

I'll just keep playing other games. Lights not under 35ts haven't been worth using since 2016. Currently working on getting my t6 submarine in world of warships. I don't see any reason to spent time nor dime here. Sniper and assult bias continues on.

Frost_Byte, on 14 November 2023 - 02:29 PM, said:

There's a lot of feedback and thoughts here and I encourage everyone to join the discord server to voice their opinions. To be honest, the forums is kind of an echo chamber and not a lot of it gets heard.

Even if you don't want to discuss or give feedback, y'all shouldn't have to wait for someone to repost to the forums and can get your information straight from the source.

The spread on HAGs was already so low that removing it doesn't really change much. But those heat nerfs are severe, and the cooldown nerf is moderate. It's a pretty big nerf to how much HAGs can farm.

Pgi telling you to not use their own fourm as the primary source of info for their own game. Yeah I'll echo champer a laugh on how sad that is. HA HA AH AH! Neat, it works.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 02:50 PM, said:

https://mwo.nav-alph...da336_ANH-GZLGD
Fit me a 300 Clan XL in that And NO SHIRKING ON ANYTHING everything must stay the same you can't loose heat sinkss, you can't loose ammo you can downgrade weapons.. I can't put ferro on it to make it fit as I don't have enough slots.... and I can't do it anyway because it's too heavy.

anh-gzlgd

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 04:28 PM, said:

yep twist is key I've been killed more by Binaries and X pulse than Hags since the patch that introduced them.

what if the atlas twist? what if he's moving what if your bad at aiming let's just all assume everyone has a perfect aim...... OR NOT

Binaries have longer burn time than hag burst is and it is way more visible, also do not stare Xpulses while your weapons are on cooldown.

I'm not buying that Atlas in testing grounds twisted while you shot it.
Spread is a value that has nothing to do with what live targets do when they gets shot.

epikt, on 14 November 2023 - 07:56 PM, said:

Slow mech can't brawl, but not all big mech are slow.
There are fast assaults like the Executioner, Gargoyle, Charger, Stone Rhino Koloss, Kodiak Spirit Bear, etc make good brawlers.

Loving charger 1A1 with two BLC and rest SL can do something at mid range and wrecks stuff quickly at sub 300m

[Frost_Byte]

JediPanther, on 14 November 2023 - 10:18 PM, said:

I'll just keep playing other games. Lights not under 35ts haven't been worth using since 2016. Currently working on getting my t6 submarine in world of warships. I don't see any reason to spent time nor dime here. Sniper and assult bias continues on.



Pgi telling you to not use their own fourm as the primary source of info for their own game. Yeah I'll echo champer a laugh on how sad that is. HA HA AH AH! Neat, it works.

Nothing is stopping you from staying here. However seeing that our game is balanced by an outside entity that is a player ran group, I'm just advising that any info you want from that player led group is found on their server. I'm a member of the cauldron and I'm just saying that you'll get a lot more bang for your buck there.

If you want to stay and discuss here only, you can. You'll just have less information.

[Tomkin]

That's a pity, my hope was for changes that would take the game away from being so centered around sniping. Compared to its tabletop source, it's rather one-dimensional.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Frost_Byte, on 14 November 2023 - 11:27 PM, said:

Nothing is stopping you from staying here. However seeing that our game is balanced by an outside entity that is a player ran group, I'm just advising that any info you want from that player led group is found on their server. I'm a member of the cauldron and I'm just saying that you'll get a lot more bang for your buck there.

If you want to stay and discuss here only, you can. You'll just have less information.

Although having to go a third-party site isn't ideal the actual problems with your original statement are:

1. You called the forum an "echo chamber". While there certainly are certain factions within the forum, there still are very diverse opinions here making your label somewhat insulting.

2. By labeling the forum as "echo chmaber" you're also implying that the cauldron discord is less of an "echo chamber" despite that discord server being equally prone to being an actual echo chamber as this forum is.

3. You writing with an official PGI account certainly makes it look like an official stance from PGI ... which could only be surpassed if you were to use the derogative term "brown sea" that some users regularly sling around.

TL;DR: Very bad choice of words where your official account status made it even worse.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 15 November 2023 - 10:56 AM.