205 replies to this topic

[Lionheart2012]

martian, on 10 December 2023 - 01:36 PM, said:

I am disappointed that PGI is recycling exactly the same 'Mech and exactly the same variant that already was a free 'Mech of the Month. Just like they recycled previous free 'Mechs. MWO has about one hundred chassis and hundreds of various 'Mech variants that have never been "a free 'Mech of the Month".


You are wrong. Perhaps you would like to check this official BattleTech record sheet:



As you can see, Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifles actually are in the classic BattleTech game.

Key word: "visuals." Yes, they are in BattleTech, but where are the visuals? As in what are the color of the sparks, per the table top game?

[Temporary Axis]

Excuse me Mr Frost_Byte sir,

Could you please confirm if the new commando hardpoint layout breaks CoC?

Thank you.

[KursedVixen]

Lionheart2012, on 10 December 2023 - 05:27 PM, said:

They have generally higher alphas than IS and are more capable of boating DHSs. Lighter, smaller weapons allow for more of the smaller clan DHSs.

That's because their suppose to be just a little OP,but PGi thinks IS should have everything and clans almost nothing the heat sink nerf is proof of this.

[PraetorGix]

Frost_Byte, on 10 December 2023 - 02:30 PM, said:

I believe the exact argument is “higher skill higher reward.” Weapons that are easier to use should be less rewarding and have less output. This would encourage players to apply themselves and use weapons that require higher levels of skill and more active input.!

No. This? Just, no. No.
You cannot in good conscience come and tell us LRMs are an "easy" or "low skill" weapon when it has along with ATMs the most hard counters in the entire weapon lineup, even sections of the skill tree are exclusively dedicated to nullifying lock-on missile weapons. And on top of that they have a miserable flight speed, bad spread on components and comparable heat to weapons that have more pinpoint damage application, and, this is the best part, a long lock on time where you have to AIM AT THE ENEMY MECH EXACTLY LIKE YOU DO WITH YOUR SUPPOSEDLY HIGH SKILL WEAPONS. Having to aim for almost a second at an enemy for your blue lasers is oh so skillful, but doing the same to get a lock and then wait another couple seconds 'till the missiles land is a no-skill noob move? Yeah, sure, nice try but no.
The main reason people hate on LRMs is because they can shoot you when you're behind cover. Well, going back to the skill theme LRM haters bring up so much, maybe use some of that high pro player skill to learn to take cover? Because don't worry, even if you don't get it right the first couple times all those radar derp and ECM nodes will make the task much easier.
And having said all this, EVEN IF you were correct and LRMs somehow were easy to use, the pathetic state you people put them in would surely guarantee that they are quite harder to play than all the sniper weapons all these "right kind of skill" players use, comfortably sitting 2km away from the fight where they don't even need to worry about return fire or sharing armor.
If the Cauldron likes to buff their toys and kill whatever else they don't find fun because for some reason they were given TOO MUCH decision power even when they are just as much of a regular player as the next guy and they can do it with impunity then I guess I have to shut up and live with it. But have the decency of owning up to it and not trying to sell us this is some kind of elaborate and finely crafted system of fair and balanced rewards for the "right" (i.e. yours) kind of skill, as if you decided what is and what is not skillful, or worse, what kind of high skill is acceptable and which isn't. That is the prerogative of the game's designers, not a group of players.

Edited by PraetorGix, 10 December 2023 - 08:30 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

KursedVixen, on 10 December 2023 - 06:44 PM, said:

That's because their suppose to be just a little OP,but PGi thinks IS should have everything and clans almost nothing the heat sink nerf is proof of this.

I think it's because Clans break the game (not just a little OP). Coming from someone who played since before the clan packs were released, the alphas the then "new" Clan 'Mechs could release was just punishing. A DWF with quad UAC20s and no heat scale limit (which existed before HSLs were introduced) just melted opponents. But clans still had more hard points, lighter weapons, and smaller DHSs. So energy boating, and UAC5/10 builds still were (and are) a thing.

Sure Clan 'Mechs can still do high alpha builds, but now they need to spend more time in cooldown (i.e. vulnerable). And over time the damage potential evens out.

If you have a game were one technology base is clearly superior, then there is no reason to have an alternate technology base. Just go with the superior one.

Now, I won't likely convince anyone who is upset about losing an advantage, but if there is an open mind out there that can be swayed, that was the purpose of the text wall that preceded this. Happy gaming, Mechwarriors....

[Lionheart2012]

PraetorGix, on 10 December 2023 - 08:24 PM, said:

No. This? Just, no. No.
You cannot in good conscience come and tell us LRMs are an "easy" or "low skill" weapon when it has along with ATMs the most hard counters in the entire weapon lineup, even sections of the skill tree are exclusively dedicated to nullifying lock-on missile weapons. And on top of that they have a miserable flight speed, bad spread on components and comparable heat to weapons that have more pinpoint damage application, and, this is the best part, a long lock on time where you have to AIM AT THE ENEMY MECH EXACTLY LIKE YOU DO WITH YOUR SUPPOSEDLY HIGH SKILL WEAPONS. Having to aim for almost a second at an enemy for your blue lasers is oh so skillful, but doing the same to get a lock and then wait another couple seconds 'till the missiles land is a no-skill noob move? Yeah, sure, nice try but no.
The main reason people hate on LRMs is because they can shoot you when you're behind cover. Well, going back to the skill theme LRM haters bring up so much, maybe use some of that high pro player skill to learn to take cover? Because don't worry, even if you don't get it right the first couple times all those radar derp and ECM nodes will make the task much easier.
And having said all this, EVEN IF you were correct and LRMs somehow were easy to use, the pathetic state you people put them in would surely guarantee that they are quite harder to play than all the sniper weapons all these "right kind of skill" players use, comfortably sitting 2km away from the fight where they don't even need to worry about return fire or sharing armor.
If the Cauldron likes to buff their toys and kill whatever else they don't find fun because for some reason they were given TOO MUCH decision power even when they are just as much of a regular player as the next guy and they can do it with impunity then I guess I have to shut up and live with it. But have the decency of owning up to it and not trying to sell us this is some kind of elaborate and finely crafted system of fair and balanced rewards for the "right" (i.e. yours) kind of skill, as if you decided what is and what is not skillful, or worse, what kind of high skill is acceptable and which isn't. That is the prerogative of the game's designers, not a group of players.

Much ado about nothing, My LRM 'Mechs have gotten 1000+ damage just like my other 'Mechs. Situational, yes, but so were my other games that earned 1000+ damage. Yes, this is anecdotal, but I am sure that PGI can release data on LRMs in tier 2 and 3, for our middling players, like me.

Edited by Lionheart2012, 10 December 2023 - 08:34 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

Now, when can I get my MAD-9S and my Light ACs?

[Tarogato]

PraetorGix, on 10 December 2023 - 08:24 PM, said:

No. This? Just, no. No.
You cannot in good conscience come and tell us LRMs are an "easy" or "low skill" weapon [...]

[Saved By The Bell]

Dear PGI, could you in future do something with flashing.



I cant use some builds, I still want my eyes.

And I dont want to explore cfg.

[Miriage]

PraetorGix, on 10 December 2023 - 08:24 PM, said:

No. This? Just, no. No.
TLDR

Mad cause bad

[Ilostmycactus]

I was hoping from the opening picture that we'd get a Stone Rhino as the free Christmas mech . I'm not really a fan of masc small laser lights or Warhammers. Thanks anyways. The camos look nice.

[Kynesis]

Why change so many parameters on RAC's if the end result is simply increasing the jam frequency?
Just saw Frost_Byte's response. Given that it's been done to mitigate macro abuse, that's fine. It seems then however, that jamming frequency has been overlooked as an element to consider.

Edited by Kynesis, 11 December 2023 - 01:31 AM.

[Staude Coston]

Lionheart2012, on 10 December 2023 - 05:27 PM, said:

They have generally higher alphas than IS and are more capable of boating DHSs. Lighter, smaller weapons allow for more of the smaller clan DHSs.

OK
IS can fire 3 ER large Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 2

IS can fire 12 Small Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 6

IS can fire 3 Large Pulse Lasers - Clan 2

Let's also talk about the mechs that HSL has on the IS side and compare them with the clan mechs

Let's compare the health values of the IS and the Clan Heat Sinks ( IS 10- Clan 4 )


The entire package of weapons should be taken into account this also includes Burning time, reload time, heat of the individual lasers, And don't forget the armor and structural quirks of the IS mechs

[Rhaelcan]

Staude, on 11 December 2023 - 01:51 AM, said:

OK
IS can fire 3 ER large Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 2

IS can fire 12 Small Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 6

IS can fire 3 Large Pulse Lasers - Clan 2

Let's also talk about the mechs that HSL has on the IS side and compare them with the clan mechs

How about let's talk about why that is. Reason clans have less is cause they have more range, and more damage output most of the time. If IS mechs had that limit, it would be bad. If clans had the limit of IS mechs, you'd see laservomit mechs doing way too good, practically overpowered.

Let's compare the health values of the IS and the Clan Heat Sinks ( IS 10- Clan 4 )


The entire package of weapons should be taken into account this also includes Burning time, reload time, heat of the individual lasers, And don't forget the armor and structural quirks of the IS mechs

[AmbidXtrousGNOME]

Saved By The Bell, on 10 December 2023 - 09:08 PM, said:

Dear PGI, could you in future do something with flashing.

I cant use some builds, I still want my eyes.

And I dont want to explore cfg.

+1 to toning down muzzle flash OR providing an optional setting to players.

PS. all that muzzle flash (well, honestly it's more of a fire ball instead of a flash) means there is A LOT of unspent powder coming out of the barrel which means that these weapons of the future are very inefficient with their ammunition processing. You could tone down the mini solar flares and say that the IS and Clans now make their ballistics with the proper amount of propellant : >

Edited by AmbidXtrousGNOME, 11 December 2023 - 06:41 AM.

[Denebios]

Staude, on 11 December 2023 - 01:51 AM, said:

OK
IS can fire 3 ER large Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 2

IS can fire 12 Small Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 6

IS can fire 3 Large Pulse Lasers - Clan 2

Let's also talk about the mechs that HSL has on the IS side and compare them with the clan mechs

Let's compare the health values of the IS and the Clan Heat Sinks ( IS 10- Clan 4 )


The entire package of weapons should be taken into account this also includes Burning time, reload time, heat of the individual lasers, And don't forget the armor and structural quirks of the IS mechs

Shoot me when I'm wrong....

The nerf of DHS does not Impact the damage done by one Alpha - ist just slows down how often you can shoot.
If one shoots 3 HLL + 5 ERML and he gets now 90% heat - it stays the same, just takes a few more seconds until next Alpha.
Since cooldown of HLL takes longer than cooldown of heat (on the mech I think about) it is not a problem on Alpha.

It just gets into a problem when you are swarmed with lights and shoot all you have.

[Alt und Grau]

Correct Denebios, anyone can still do their 80+ Alpha without any problems whatsoever. Not sure if that really helps from preventing Laservomits in the first place since the cooling rate is reduced be 0.02 only per Heatsink in the end.

ECM change is nice, I still wish that it would get heavier. Lights pay 1 ton, medius 2 tons, heavy 3 tons, assaults 4 tons for being basically invisible on the map. One ton is such a cheap price for the little yellow box.

[martian]

Rhaelcan, on 10 December 2023 - 04:17 PM, said:

I thought you were talking about HBS battletech.

As far as I know the HBS BattleTech game has never been officially advertised as "classic battletech the game".

On the other hand, the actual desktop BattleTech had been officially branded as Classic BattleTech for years.

Rhaelcan, on 10 December 2023 - 04:17 PM, said:

How do you know how they LOOK in classic tabletop. It's a burst fire weapon. Simple as is.

LavaDa1shi, on 10 December 2023 - 04:00 PM, said:

Yeah but they have no visuals on Table top, unless you mean bullet count but iirc the devs have said it would cause lag issues.

Lionheart2012, on 10 December 2023 - 04:48 PM, said:

Show me the proper visuals from the table top game!

Lionheart2012, on 10 December 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

Key word: "visuals." Yes, they are in BattleTech, but where are the visuals? As in what are the color of the sparks, per the table top game?

Description straight from the BattleTech novel: "a shotgun burst from the dorsal-mounted hyper-assault Gauss rifle" or from the sourcebook "his Hyper-Assault Gauss arsenal ready to fill the flight path with ... clouds of magnetically propelled flak".

And this is the appearance of HAGs from the BattleTech Technical Readout:

Hierofalcon - HAG-20


Onager - HAG-30


I guess that you can imagine the appearance of HAG-40.


Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifles have never been intended to be a long-range, concentrated damage sniper weapons.

HAGs are supposed to be something like Clan ballistic equivalent of Inner Sphere MRMs (or like untypical LBX Autocannon firing only cluster shots), dishing out spread damage and being most useful in the short- and medium-range brackets.

[martian]

Staude, on 11 December 2023 - 01:51 AM, said:

OK
IS can fire 3 ER large Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 2

IS can fire 12 Small Lasers without Ghost Heat- Clan 6

IS can fire 3 Large Pulse Lasers - Clan 2

Let's also talk about the mechs that HSL has on the IS side and compare them with the clan mechs

Let's compare the health values of the IS and the Clan Heat Sinks ( IS 10- Clan 4 )

The entire package of weapons should be taken into account this also includes Burning time, reload time, heat of the individual lasers, And don't forget the armor and structural quirks of the IS mechs

I have heard somewhere that many Clan weapons and pieces of equipment are smaller or lighter (or both) than similar IS weapons.

[AmbidXtrousGNOME]

martian, on 11 December 2023 - 08:37 AM, said:

Description straight from the BattleTech novel: "a shotgun burst from the dorsal-mounted hyper-assault Gauss rifle" or from the sourcebook "his Hyper-Assault Gauss arsenal ready to fill the flight path with ... clouds of magnetically propelled flak".

I think having HAGs be a gauss shotgun would be pretty cool. It could provide a new gameplay style since I usually only see LBXs paired with SNPPCs or SRMs and used for that <400m kind of range. The only shotgun sniping I do is with the scattershot or an Assault LBX-2 boat.