46 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

Abisha, on 23 December 2023 - 03:24 AM, said:

it's almost unbelievable people still use LRM consider the amount of ECM mech exist.

I do okay with them, because I don't fight on the horizon. Every mech I field with LRMs also has a credible battery of lasers or light PPC's. Zap the target, they lock up instantly, loose the lurms direct fire. No TAG required.

https://mwo.nav-alph...8b2c3250_HBK-4J
https://mwo.nav-alph...=9e993d63_ARC-T
https://mwo.nav-alph...=2468375c_ON1-K

[CFC Conky]

I like all the LRMS.

It means less incoming HAG fire.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[kalashnikity]

1Exitar1, on 22 December 2023 - 03:11 PM, said:

Used to be people shifted away from LRMs, unless it was the weekend. I have noticed that more and more people are using them now. In 4 matches, my AMS mech shot down over 2400 missiles. A month ago it would have taken me over a month to shoot that many down.

I'm just curious as to what has changed?

IDK about "more" there has always been a baseline.I will admit that I can still get decent scores with IS LRM as long as I bring my own BAP, PPC, Tag and NARC. (you can still do OK if you leave one of those out, maybe two at most). But, Clan LRM is nearly useless, it's been nerfed to oblivion. I can rarely get over 200dmg even when things seem good and I'm able to get a lot of locks and send a lot of missiles downrange. A similar feeling IS LRM match will easily net 500dmg. Clan LRMs are definitely broken.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 23 December 2023 - 05:02 AM, said:

God knows why. Good direct fire is so much easier to use.

The LRM5 changes, the Longbow, and the ECM nerf are probably encouraging LRM use, but who knows what happens once the flavour of the month moves on.

I think that it has already happened.

I rarely see the Longbow in the game, and if it happens, that Longbow runs either SRMs or MRMs. Or it is either energy or ballistic variant of the Longbow.

[LordNothing]

in a word, longbow.

[VeeOt Dragon]

meh, there is usually an uptake of LRM use during certain events. but yeah they did get a tiny amount of help with the ECM nerf and the LRM-5 HSL change. though very few mechs can really take advantage of the LRM-5 changes.

[PocketYoda]

Lrm mechs.. are new.

[martian]

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 December 2023 - 01:38 PM, said:

meh, there is usually an uptake of LRM use during certain events. but yeah they did get a tiny amount of help with the ECM nerf and the LRM-5 HSL change. though very few mechs can really take advantage of the LRM-5 changes.

That LRM-5 boost was obviously intended to help the Longbow, and even such boost has not succeeded to keep the Longbow being played too much.

[Novakaine]

Now the naysayers are gonna naysay and let's be honest.
With all of the ECM, stealth mechs, AMS, laser AMs, target retention and radar derp.
Not to mention they move slower than maple syrup on a extremely cold day.
Did I leave a nerf out?
Verses the skill-less point and click pinpoint blue flashlight mob.
And the gauss bunnies.
They are truly the only skill weapon in the game.
Yeah I said it.

Edited by Novakaine, 25 December 2023 - 12:00 AM.

[Mumuharra]

(I had a 2 years break with MWO but I think it’s time to try a comeback ������.)
I remember I loved playing my LRM boats and with some strategic positioning and a good team they sometimes were a blast to play and I have fond memories on some incredible LRM matches (especially when the first wave of clan mechs arrived and clan LRMs were pretty OP for some time).
They have allways been a solid mech choice I am very interested in how they perform nowadays.

Edited by Mumuharra, 25 December 2023 - 02:25 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 24 December 2023 - 09:12 PM, said:

That LRM-5 boost was obviously intended to help the Longbow, and even such boost has not succeeded to keep the Longbow being played too much.

Yup, it’s such a minuscule advantage over four LRM15’s that it’s not worth noting, especially not on a mech that gets no cooldown, velocity, spread, or target decay advantages. If you’re taking lurms there are a TON of mechs that do it better.

[foamyesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 December 2023 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yup, it’s such a minuscule advantage over four LRM15’s that it’s not worth noting, especially not on a mech that gets no cooldown, velocity, spread, or target decay advantages. If you’re taking lurms there are a TON of mechs that do it better.

I dunno 'bout that. You can combine the 5s with the 15s now, which gets you up to LRM60 as a ghost-heat free salvo even before quirks. And that saves tonnage and has tighter spread over a LRM15x4 setup.

Edited by foamyesque, 25 December 2023 - 11:29 PM.

[martian]

Mumuharra, on 25 December 2023 - 02:25 PM, said:

(I had a 2 years break with MWO but I think it’s time to try a comeback ������.)
I remember I loved playing my LRM boats and with some strategic positioning and a good team they sometimes were a blast to play and I have fond memories on some incredible LRM matches (especially when the first wave of clan mechs arrived and clan LRMs were pretty OP for some time).
They have allways been a solid mech choice I am very interested in how they perform nowadays.

They suck unless:

• you are using them as a PUG farming premade with NARC, TAG, dedicated spotter, etc.
  
• you get some ideal map for them (for example as Alpine Peaks or similar)
  
• you get some clueless enemies who do not know how to protect themselves

But for normal purposes, LRMs are just an inefficient weapon system that requires locks, requires a lot of explosive ammo onboard, does not deliver concentrated damage, offers low velocity, has minimum range, etc.

[foamyesque]

martian, on 25 December 2023 - 11:59 PM, said:

They suck unless:

• you are using them as a PUG farming premade with NARC, TAG, dedicated spotter, etc.
  
• you get some ideal map for them (for example as Alpine Peaks or similar)
  
• you get some clueless enemies who do not know how to protect themselves

But for normal purposes, LRMs are just an inefficient weapon system that requires locks, requires a lot of explosive ammo onboard, does not deliver concentrated damage, offers low velocity, has minimum range, etc.

The thing about Peaks IMO is that it's *so* open that it actually hurts LRM machines because the even longer ranged direct fire gets so strong on it.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 26 December 2023 - 12:33 AM, said:

The thing about Peaks IMO is that it's *so* open that it actually hurts LRM machines because the even longer ranged direct fire gets so strong on it.

Yeah, it depends on the both teams' exact composition, the part of the map where the combat is taking place, etc. But still better map for LRMs than for example Solaris City.

[w0qj]

A warm welcome back to MWO!

A lot has happened in the intervening 2-3 years that you've been away... basically you've missed the entire set of Cauldron-flavored MWO changes! And I'm saying this in a good way

MWO Patch History
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes
https://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

HSL List (Note: You can now fire 6x LRM5 for both IS/Clan now!)
https://mwomercs.com...-hsl-quirk-list

MWO Weapons & Ghost Heat tables:
https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons
https://mwo.nav-alph...pment/ghostheat

IS/Clan LRM: same minimum range as before (same old 180m minimum range, below which no damage for IS side, and exponential damage decay for Clan side, same as before)

LRM velocity: about 10% slower than 3 years ago (!)
~Some mechs have +Missile Velocity or +Weapons Velocity to help mitigate this handicap

A lot more ECM mechs in QP nowadays (Timber Wolf with ECM, Dire Wolf with ECM, etc.)

-55% reduction in area of ECM protection bubble (ECM now 90m, down from 120m)

Clan ECM slightly less effective (max 93% ECM with 2x Skill Nodes)
IS ECM same as before (max 100% ECM with 2x Skill Nodes)

Radar Deprivation now down to 95% (from previous 100%), almost the same as before.

IS: New: ASP (Advanced Sensor Package--replaces Command Console). ie:
~ASP + BAP = 1000+ meter sensor range; you no longer have to beg teammates to help spot enemies for you!
~ASP + BAP = 2.5ton, severely eating into your LRM ammo supply
~ASP + BAP: speculation: might help to detect enemy ECM mechs from further out, due to increased sensor range

IS+Clan: a number of mechs with +HSL LRM quirks

Clan ATM: minimum range now 60m (down from 120m). ATM damage of "zero" below minimum range.
~By the way, ATM basically lost its indirect fire ability; cannot lob ATM over a hill now

IS+Clan: ammo-based AMS: uses no heat now. IS side now can use AMS + 0.5ton AMS ammo, using 2x critical slots as standard

IS+Clan: AMS ammo does not explode upon crit anymore.

A number of LRM specialised mechs such as Crusader and now the Longbow.

The new Legendary Longbow LGB-OH(LGD) can fire LRM90 in one single volley with no ghost heat!
(ie: 2xLRM15 + 12xLRM5... faints)

Do enjoy this new world of LRM mechs

Mumuharra, on 25 December 2023 - 02:25 PM, said:

(I had a 2 years break with MWO but I think it’s time to try a comeback ������.)
I remember I loved playing my LRM boats and with some strategic positioning and a good team they sometimes were a blast to play and I have fond memories on some incredible LRM matches (especially when the first wave of clan mechs arrived and clan LRMs were pretty OP for some time).
They have allways been a solid mech choice I am very interested in how they perform nowadays.

Edited by w0qj, 26 December 2023 - 08:14 PM.

[Bludhammer]

crazytimes, on 22 December 2023 - 04:08 PM, said:

Why do events generate all the "why is XXXXX happening all of a sudden"? There's only 2 on the front page which is rookie numbers.

Perhaps these two mysteries are linked. Perhaps it's Ancient Aliens. Will we ever know?

Been playing since day 1, every time I take a break its the same reason, 1 button bot spam ruining any game play and dont talk about ECM it doesn't stop it ruining the game overall

[ScrapIron Prime]

w0qj, on 26 December 2023 - 08:57 AM, said:

The new Legendary Longbow LGB-OH(LGD) can fire LRM90 in one single volley with no ghost heat!
(ie: 2xLRM15 + 12xLRM5... faints)

Yup, no ghost heat. And no cooldown bonus, no spread bonus, no velocity bonus, no heat bonus.

Pretty much every other LRM mech is a better LRM mech than that Legendary Longbow.

EDIT... and here's my list of which mechs have the highest Velocity quirks, which is the most important quirk for scoring hits with missiles...

https://mwomercs.com...elocity-quirks/

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 26 December 2023 - 12:47 PM.

[foamyesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 26 December 2023 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yup, no ghost heat. And no cooldown bonus, no spread bonus, no velocity bonus, no heat bonus.

5s inherently have tighter spread and faster cooldowns than the big launchers.

[ScrapIron Prime]

foamyesque, on 26 December 2023 - 01:11 PM, said:

5s inherently have tighter spread and faster cooldowns than the big launchers.

Oh you're not wrong. LRM 5's have about 18% less cooldown and 15% less spread than an LRM 15.

So let's say you put LRM 15's on a Warhammer 7S. You'd be dealing with a cooldown of 3.6 seconds instead of the longbow's 3.25. And you'd have a 40% increased velocity, which will cause you to get a LOT more hits.

How about the good old Catapult C4? LRM 15's with a cooldown of 3.2, more velocity, and less heat.

Because don't forget all those freaking LRM 5's are 2.2 heat each. Whoopie Doo that the Longbow hero can fire a dozen launchers at once for 26.4 heat. That catapult fires the same number of much faster missiles staggered 2 and 2 for 16.2 heat.

Yeah, the Longbow is trash because the folks that put the stats together don't like long range missiles.