foamyesque, on 06 January 2024 - 11:31 AM, said:
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Cauldron is trying everything except spread to nerf HAGs. Every time they made a change to 'em to make 'em worse in some other capacity, spread was reduced until it went all the way to zero. Now they're adding splash instead of spread because they know HAGs need to spread, but there's still no actual spread.
They made a poll in discord: "what do you prefer?". Obviously, the NO to the spread won.
crazytimes, on 06 January 2024 - 07:37 PM, said:
Weapons have to get balanced for more than one use case. Different tiers use them differently, and faction play/comp play may use them differently as well.
People doing poorly with them on a 3 x LRM5+A and Machine gun boat in tier 5 make up some stats, but also contributing to the overall balance picture is 4 man groups running 3 x LRM90 boats + a NARC light. Or worse in Faction play.
This is double funny: you are showing one, among several reasons, of why groups in QP are a bad idea; as well as saying that coordinated tactics (involving LRMs) in a team-based mode (FP) are a bad thing.
Anyway, why exactly is, let's say, a 4 man group running 3 x LRM90 boats + a NARC light waaaay worse than 4 man wolfpack hunting (or snipping, or doing anything else) in QP?
ScrapIron Prime, on 07 January 2024 - 08:57 AM, said:
Let me get this straight… the NARC is too powerful, so you’re going to nerf LRMs. Does that make ANY sense? Punish all the players who are not Blood Asp missile hulks with a light mech friend?
Try this one out… the Gausszilla is a broken mech so… we’re going to nerf AC/5’s. Does that sound dumb to anyone? Because it’s the same logic being presented for LRMs…
Cauldron being cauldron.
Moadebe, on 07 January 2024 - 09:29 AM, said:
So...
From my understanding of the changes with LRMs have nothing to do with things like NARC and the like. Rather from discussion on the discord I am thinking its a form of "give and take."
Let me state that I am NOT in the cauldron so I have zero idea of their internal discussions. I am coming from a place of just reading talk on the discord and so this is second hand SPECULATION.
The overall velocity nerf is to compensate for Radar Deprivation nerfs. RD gets weaker and so they probably think LRMs need to have a lower velocity to give more reaction time to find cover. Also. There were discussions about making Artemis worth while to take since right now for the investment it is severely lackluster. I think the overall velocity nerf is also to help compensate and give Artemis something to make it worth while. I have seen numbers talked about in discussions, but I am hesitant to even state them because NOTHING is set in stone. ALL of this are things that have been talked about, but since there are no official leaks about this its all subject to CHANGE.
The indirect fire arc nerf is something I was talking about extensively on the discord. I have ZERO idea if I influenced any of this into happening. I just know I have talked extensively about it in discussions on the discord in the lockon weapon section. I will say that If it happens I feel it will be a GOOD change. Especially since right now indirect fire of LRMs comes in almost at a 90 degree angle. (More like a 70-80 degree angle.) There are times when someone will get behind cover and yet still get hit. (Think canyon network in the trench. You are a slow mech with no JJ. No avenue to go up outta the trench but those missiles are incoming. So you butt yourself against the canyon wall....only for those missiles to still hit you because their arc is juuuuust enough to clear the top of said wall. You cannot do ANYTHING about it cept keep moving while getting hammered mercilessly.)
Instances like I just said make LRMs not fun to play against, and give this aura that LRMs are op (they are not.) It doesn't reward proper play. "Incoming missiles huh? Ok lemme get behind this building that should be plenty of cover. *hit hit hit hit* WTF!"
If you are thinking of "shallower" as the same as direct fire or within 300m .... you are thinking of extremes. If the current angle of indirect arc is about 80-70 degrees. Then a 5-10 degree reduction should be just fine while going over most terrain between your target and you. Indirect fire should be about suppression first. Damage second. (IMO) Your damage from LRMs should come from direct fire (meaning you got your own locks, you are sharing armor, and you are with the team in a team based game.)
AGAIN. The stated changes about LRM velocity, artemis, arc of indirect fire, and radar deprivation are all just DISCUSSIONS that have happened. No official leaks and there is ONLY talk saying that they will happen. The only reason I mentioned them is because the talks ARE serious. Across multiple days and discussions with actual cauldron members.
As far as HAG splash goes....it IS a mistake imo. One that WILL cause problems. The game does NOT need more splash, and this will only benefit the shooter as a crutch. Not the person getting shot at. I have been causing hell about this particular subject for awhile and I know I am pissing into the wind at this point on the matter. So I am just sitting back and we will see the repercussions of the change on the 23rd and the days afterwards. For good or ill.Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't matter. Hell I WANT to be wrong on the subject. Simply cause it would mean that the game is better balanced and funner to play cause of it.
So before all of yall eat each other. Lets see how the HAG changes play out. At least. Lets see if the talk and discussions about LRMs bare fruit and are actually real.
P.S: We sill need more ECM nerfs imo. Range reduction needs a nerf or the skills in the skill tree need a nerf.
They want more nerfs to LRMs, to protect
their snipers in
their niche comp play, that's all. They need some new excuses. So what? they are now willing to discuss about another ****** 1% nerf per node to raderp?
Indirect fire mode is already nerfed to the ground. What does they want, lurmers fighting purely LOS as if missiles were point and click like lasers??? Make it happen, but with all consecuences included: same counters and as fast as any other direct-fire weapon. Or a complete rework to make them like in MW4.
What LRMs (and the other guided missiles) really need is a BIG un-nerf:
1. Given the actual skill tree situation after their brilliant modification: raderp reduction to 5% per node, and remove all raderp quirks. Simply make the maths. Indirect fire is just no viable AT ALL starting at 1 raderp node, because time-to-lock and target retention time exceed the time a given target remains targeted, UNLESS you have a dedicated spotter/narcer (see DATA videos to know what IS NOT happening about LRMs in a regular basis).
2. Even in LOS, any lurmer, fully TD skilled, need several sec to target, lock, and fly time before to start speaking about "long range missiles". So, increase the damn velocity very significantly.
2. Stop making unfriendly maps, like Bearflaw II. And release old Polar.
3. Clean up a bit walls, rocks, buildings, etc. from the already avaliable """open""" maps, so long range missiles could have a chance to reach targets at long ranges, actually.
4. BIG spread reduction. Aren't they ****** guided?
And overall, they should stop modding this game to change it as a slowmotion version of
PUT RANDOM DUMMY PEWPEW GAME NAME HERE. This is mechwarrior.
Edited by Tarteso, 07 January 2024 - 01:18 PM.
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