286 replies to this topic

[BLXKNTRR]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 06 March 2024 - 09:56 PM, said:

You go from one extreme to the other. Ironically the AS7-RS is more reliable against not slow targets than a dakka mech and has near equivalent DPS

Is that the 4 lxp variant? If so, you do realize the black knight with 3lxp and 6 er mediums sports in XL engine and has far less armor than a Atlas

And it's a FaceTime build. Compounds the lack of armor seen on the Black Knight

I'm sorry Quicksilver but you're kind of self contradicting


Do you have some kind of thing against the Black Knight being buffed however so slightly?

Who hurt you?

[Curccu]

BLXKNTRR, on 06 March 2024 - 11:27 PM, said:

Do you have some kind of thing against the Black Knight being buffed however so slightly?
Who hurt you?

You haven't been asking slight buffs as far as I have seen...

[Alexander of Macedon]

BLXKNTRR, on 06 March 2024 - 11:27 PM, said:

the Black Knight being buffed however so slightly?

BLXKNTRR, on 27 February 2024 - 10:34 AM, said:

The time for change is now, MechWarriors! It's evident that the Black Knight has been unjustly shackled for far too long. Rise up with me, and let's push for a 10 armor buff to those side torsos, accompanied by anti-crit quirks as a bare minimum.

Your "bare minimum" desired buff is doubling the existing ST armor quirks on one of the most heavily armor-quirked IS heavy chassis, also giving it innate crit resistance when even chassis in objectively worse shape (like, say, the Orion) aren't given those. And that's for a very solid energy-boating chassis.

That is not "slight".

Just a short list of IS heavies that need armor buffs more than the BL line: Orion, Quickdraw, Rifleman, Jagermech, Cataphract, and arguably the Thunderbolt, Thanatos, and Champion as well. I would say "Dragon" but all of the variants are already given +20 or +30 on every torso component.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

BLXKNTRR, on 06 March 2024 - 11:27 PM, said:

Is that the 4 lxp variant? If so, you do realize the black knight with 3lxp and 6 er mediums sports in XL engine and has far less armor than a Atlas

I'm not saying that you should run the Black Knight that way, what I'm trying to make clear is that low mounts don't hold back the Atlas like you seem to think. It has low mounts and a facetime build yet it works in spite of that (armor helps, but it also has solid DPS on top of that). The Black Knight can run the same amount of firepower as the STK-7D, the trade off though is 10 tons, better mounts/hitboxes for more speed.

I also said I wouldn't mind some slight buffs, but that the Cauldron has limited bandwidth for buffs to mechs and there are plenty of other mechs that need more love than the BK. I'm also not sold that the side torso buffs would actually help it (heat quirks as more beneficial overall).

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 07 March 2024 - 07:47 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 07 March 2024 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm not saying that you should run the Black Knight that way, what I'm trying to make clear is that low mounts don't hold back the Atlas like you seem to think. It has low mounts and a facetime build yet it works in spite of that (armor helps, but it also has solid DPS on top of that). The Black Knight can run the same amount of firepower as the STK-7D, the trade off though is 10 tons, better mounts/hitboxes for more speed.

I also said I wouldn't mind some slight buffs, but that the Cauldron has limited bandwidth for buffs to mechs and there are plenty of other mechs that need more love than the BK. I'm also not sold that the side torso buffs would actually help it (heat quirks as more beneficial overall).

I could care less about the mount heights on the bk

I'm arguing that it's not well a armored enough on the side torsos.

The fact that the bk can be made to go 80 kph is one of its saving graces.

And if other mechs need love first then no problem, im not expecting a patch tomorrow lol

[BLXKNTRR]

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 March 2024 - 07:41 AM, said:

Your "bare minimum" desired buff is doubling the existing ST armor quirks on one of the most heavily armor-quirked IS heavy chassis, also giving it innate crit resistance when even chassis in objectively worse shape (like, say, the Orion) aren't given those. And that's for a very solid energy-boating chassis.

That is not "slight".

Just a short list of IS heavies that need armor buffs more than the BL line: Orion, Quickdraw, Rifleman, Jagermech, Cataphract, and arguably the Thunderbolt, Thanatos, and Champion as well. I would say "Dragon" but all of the variants are already given +20 or +30 on every torso component.

I said double the black knight side torso armor? Don't think i did champ

How in God's name can you possibly think the orion needs an armor buff? Its already buffed!!!

I think the dragon is all in s good place.

Not decided on the others

The black knight needs attention. It needs buffed because listen. Its to big for it's small amount of a
Armor. Everyone on the enemy team is gunning for you. And you die from 2
Stone rhino alphas to the ct these days

I feel I'm begging generously courteous asking for a small buff to only side torsos

If you think I'm asking too much

Hypothetically what would be an appropriate buff for the black knight

[Bud Crue]

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:08 AM, said:

Hypothetically what would be an appropriate buff for the black knight

Given where it stands relative to other heavies, I would say it doesn't need armor buffs, but rather could use some changes to its weapons' quirks to make each of the variants more intriguing to play. Start with the 6, which is darn near perfect, and give it some silly AMS quirks to entice folks to taking them. The others I would up their torso twist speed to at least match the 6 and then quirk to taste: the 6B could get something like a medium laser (family) HSL bonus, maybe even a top speed buff like the warhammer 9D to put a cherry on top. The 7 is already near perfect as a LPPC boat, but I wouldn't mind a bit of a heat reduction quirk. 7L, I would double down on the std laser duration quirks and maybe a 10% heat reduction. Hero is one of the few I never purchased and I don't have the RRII (yet), so no comment on those.

[ScrapIron Prime]

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 07:59 AM, said:

I could care less about the mount heights on the bk

Then you're not trading at range very much. Short range fights are fine for low mounts.

There are two black knights I run that are trading builds, and both double as short range mechs. (6B with 2xHPPC + 6ML, 7 with 8xLPPC, both with a Light 325 engine) The hardpoint height increase benefited both greatly.

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:08 AM, said:

Hypothetically what would be an appropriate buff for the black knight

The Black Knight is a lackluster energy boat. It has the hardpoints, but not the quirks. Were I to suggest improving it, 10 more armor on LT/CT/RT would help, as would an across-the-board heat quirk. With both of those, it would have more staying power, because a BK often finds itself overheated after a couple shots and unable to fire back very fast.

[BLXKNTRR]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 March 2024 - 09:25 AM, said:

Then you're not trading at range very much.

I get what you're saying. If im playing ranged version of a Black Knight it will either have six ER large lasers which I fire in threes. In which case the mounts are somewhat mitigated by the range that I'm at but if I try to play a more balanced loadout say three ER large five ER mediums or medium expulse corner peeking saves me the trouble that would be caused by mount height

Don't think they're ever going to raise the mounts higher on the Black Knight any higher than what they already are would be heavily against what we know about the Black Knight from lore

I'm with you with the armor addition. New quirks would be nice. But I don't want to take away from the chance of getting a slight armor buff. What if we ask for both and they give us a five armor buff. I mean the Black Knight 7 has a three armor buff to the arms. That's really nothing. But I agree that some new quirks would be interesting. I really think that some antique crit quirks would suit the Black Knight nicely without

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 07 March 2024 - 09:55 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Curccu, on 07 March 2024 - 03:02 AM, said:

You haven't been asking slight buffs as far as I have seen...

Im open to discussion on hypothetical buffs.

I said 10 armor on the side torsos, alone. Is that not slight? Is it not still slight to add -30 or 40% crit chance, say on the 6r since its a resistance pack mech and that matches the theme, or perhaps even all black knights?

Is that not slight? You tell me what you think would be better. Thanks

[BLXKNTRR]

Bud Crue, on 07 March 2024 - 09:09 AM, said:

Given where it stands relative to other heavies, I would say it doesn't need armor buffs, but rather could use some changes to its weapons' quirks to make each of the variants more intriguing to play. Start with the 6, which is darn near perfect, and give it some silly AMS quirks to entice folks to taking them. The others I would up their torso twist speed to at least match the 6 and then quirk to taste: the 6B could get something like a medium laser (family) HSL bonus, maybe even a top speed buff like the warhammer 9D to put a cherry on top. The 7 is already near perfect as a LPPC boat, but I wouldn't mind a bit of a heat reduction quirk. 7L, I would double down on the std laser duration quirks and maybe a 10% heat reduction. Hero is one of the few I never purchased and I don't have the RRII (yet), so no comment on those.

thanks this post was full of great stuff. but I kind of disagree on some things.

the 6r already has 2 ams. If you run 2 ams, youre probably running an xl-which further necessitates some armor buff. I think snub range+ 30 meters/ or velocity, or snub hsl +1 would be ideal (perhaps a wet dream, but come on, hags and stuff already out here!) Im on the fence about mobility changes. If I were to add mobility changes, it would be to torso twist speed.

I think +1 hsl on mediums for the 6b is a good idea, actually. But I dont think the speed needs to change. You can reach 75-80 kph easily even with a light engine.

The 7 already has -13.5% heat on ppcs. I think what it really needs is, again anti crit dmg because (and correct me if this doesnt work this way) I lose lppcs on it all the time. I prefer 5 lppcs and 3 medium pulse right now for range and close range, with cooldown skilling all full. Sometimes I even drop the medium pulse, and put a targeting computer and single heat sinks and full range skills instead. Single heat sinks on the side of my mech with all the lppcs, so if I lose a side torso, I have all my weapons and most of my heat management. Im not sure how I feel about that build because if I lose the wrong side torso, im done. That being said, The 7 can do better more safely with 2 er ppcs as well.

I dont know what you mean double down on 7L duration quirks. I think they are already generous. I dont think it needs -10% heat because the duration is already good. and 2 binaries are a great corner peak. Possibly..-5% heat. But Im fine where it is as far as weapon quirks.

The partisan and reaper are, to me, hot messes. But its possible to do very well and enjoy them. Just not how I would have designed them

I recommend close range on both. And radar skills for seeing movement. Especially on the reaper, so you can walk forward with you shield facing the enemy knowing he was there (but he doesnt know you know) and when he fires, you strike, rotates and back up. Not every time you peak of course, but its safest for versus rhinos, or fafnirs, etc.

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 07 March 2024 - 10:34 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 March 2024 - 07:41 AM, said:

Your "bare minimum" desired buff is doubling the existing ST armor quirks on one of the most heavily armor-quirked IS heavy chassis, also giving it innate crit resistance when even chassis in objectively worse shape (like, say, the Orion) aren't given those. And that's for a very solid energy-boating chassis.

That is not "slight".

Just a short list of IS heavies that need armor buffs more than the BL line: Orion, Quickdraw, Rifleman, Jagermech, Cataphract, and arguably the Thunderbolt, Thanatos, and Champion as well. I would say "Dragon" but all of the variants are already given +20 or +30 on every torso component.

Can you read dude? 10 armor buff, not double armor. What the ef is going on here.

And the orion has same structure and 2x the armor as the black knight. so no, what you say about the crits is completely incorrect.

[Alexander of Macedon]

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:08 AM, said:

I said double the black knight side torso armor? Don't think i did champ

How in God's name can you possibly think the orion needs an armor buff? Its already buffed!!!

I think the dragon is all in s good place.

Not decided on the others

The black knight needs attention. It needs buffed because listen. Its to big for it's small amount of a
Armor. Everyone on the enemy team is gunning for you. And you die from 2
Stone rhino alphas to the ct these days

I feel I'm begging generously courteous asking for a small buff to only side torsos

If you think I'm asking too much

Hypothetically what would be an appropriate buff for the black knight

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 11:05 AM, said:

Can you read dude? 10 armor buff, not double armor. What the ef is going on here.

And the orion has same structure and 2x the armor as the black knight. so no, what you say about the crits is completely incorrect.

So angry you replied to me twice but you didn't bother to read either time.

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 March 2024 - 07:41 AM, said:

Your "bare minimum" desired buff is doubling the existing ST armor quirks on one of the most heavily armor-quirked IS heavy chassis, also giving it innate crit resistance when even chassis in objectively worse shape (like, say, the Orion) aren't given those.

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 March 2024 - 07:41 AM, said:

doubling the existing ST armor quirks

Black Knights currently all get +12 armor quirks on each ST. Adding your proposed additional +10 armor to each ST would result in a total quirk of +22 armor per ST, or slightly less than two times the existing value. Let's walk through this:

12 + 10 = 22.

22/12 = 1.8333

double
2 of 4
verb

doubled; doubling ˈdə-b(ə-)liŋ

transitive verb
1: to make twice as great or as many: such as
a: to increase by adding an equal amount
b: to amount to twice the number of


On a different note: the REASON the Orion has higher armor and structure quirks than the Black Knight is because it has worse hitboxes, worse weapon quirks, and worse hardpoints. 'mechs don't get quirks because you like them, they get quirks to compensate for intrinsic disadvantages.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 07 March 2024 - 06:55 PM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 March 2024 - 06:54 PM, said:

So angry you replied to me twice but you didn't bother to read either time.




Black Knights currently all get +12 armor quirks on each ST. Adding your proposed additional +10 armor to each ST would result in a total quirk of +22 armor per ST, or slightly less than two times the existing value. Let's walk through this:

12 + 10 = 22.

22/12 = 1.8333

double
2 of 4
verb

doubled; doubling ˈdə-b(ə-)liŋ

transitive verb
1: to make twice as great or as many: such as
a: to increase by adding an equal amount
b: to amount to twice the number of


On a different note: the REASON the Orion has higher armor and structure quirks than the Black Knight is because it has worse hitboxes, worse weapon quirks, and worse hardpoints. 'mechs don't get quirks because you like them, they get quirks to compensate for intrinsic disadvantages.

Ive never heard of calling the armor "quirks" but now i understand what you mean.

No amount of pedantic slander, although appreciatively demonstrative, will alter the truth; the orion hardpoints are too similar to the black knight and should definitely not be used to prop up whatever anti buff the black knight dogma you espouse to so devotedly

And the reason you were so unclear is simply math is wrong. Everyone who plays the black knight inevitably has armor skilled and skeletal density skilled. The min amount of armor for the rear is 7 imo

So lets do the math. 82= not enough god damn armor

Also, the orion has some pretty damn better quirks than the black knight. I love the way you haters (?not sure what to call you really) have 1 million lies to pretend like theres some great argument against buffing the black knight which is one of the worst mechs in the game right now given its size to armor ration with the current meta, when there is absolutely none.

And im not angry. I reply on work breaks, i dont have much time, and using my phone means to errors are inevitable

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 08 March 2024 - 12:28 AM.

[Bassault]

BLXKNTRR, on 04 March 2024 - 12:28 PM, said:

@quicksilver

Try address more than point of my arguments and using it as a way to undermine this important topic via ad hominem and straw man trollinn

You want to call my skill in question. Im as good as it gets in a black. Thanks for asking

Let's 1v1 in a lobby, I'd like to bring a dose of reality into your life. If you are as good as it gets in a black knight then why are you tier 2? Hello? You are clearly doing something wrong.

Edited by Bassault, 08 March 2024 - 07:12 AM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Wait, this ain't the lobby?!

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:54 PM, said:

[...] I love the way you haters (?not sure what to call you really) have 1 million lies to pretend like theres some great argument against buffing the black knight which is one of the worst mechs in the game right now given its size to armor ration with the current meta, when there is absolutely none.

One wrong-way driver? HUNDREDS OF THEM!

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 08 March 2024 - 07:17 AM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 07:11 AM, said:

Let's 1v1 in a lobby, I'd like to bring a dose of reality into your life. If you are as good as it gets in a black knight then why are you tier 2? Hello? You are clearly doing something wrong.

Yes, lets go. How?

RabidQua1l, on 08 March 2024 - 07:55 AM, said:

BLXKNTRR Could we do some laservomit Black knight 1v1s? I'm mostly free for the future.

Yes. How?

[BLXKNTRR]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 08 March 2024 - 07:15 AM, said:

Wait, this ain't the lobby?!



One wrong-way driver? HUNDREDS OF THEM!

I was pretty tired after work. Idk what you mean though

All i was saying, ive brought some compelling arguments and i get some bunk in return and its systemic community bunk. This community seems overwhelmingly against buffing anything but what they like and black knights are under represented in this community. Wanna buff lrms? Im with you, and so is the dogma here, and im fine with that. But I ask for what amounts to a few seconds more durability and am met with the same hegemons of mwo communal dogma again and again who dont bring anything but clever pedantic slander and illogical/ deceptive personal attacks rather than any kind of numbers

Not everyone, but the loudest voices. So forgive me if I try my damnedest to speak up

[Bassault]

BLXKNTRR, on 08 March 2024 - 09:06 AM, said:

Yes, lets go. How?



Yes. How?

I'll be on in an hour. Add me ingame. If you got discord my name is bassault add me there too. If you got steam https://s.team/p/kgj-tmwn/DGTKNPHB

Edited by Bassault, 08 March 2024 - 09:23 AM.

[CFC Conky]

Bassault said:

1709910714[/url]' post='6534283']
Let's 1v1 in a lobby, I'd like to bring a dose of reality into your life. If you are as good as it gets in a black knight then why are you tier 2? Hello? You are clearly doing something wrong.

To be fair, one can be very good in a chassis/variant and not be in T1.

While getting to Tier 1 certainly denotes talent at playing MWO, it is not the sole arbiter when it comes to understanding the game.

I’ll save you some time looking up my stats, I gravitate between T4-T3. By virtue of time played I have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn’t but I’m not a great player. I also understand ice hockey even though I was never going to be good enough to play in the NHL.

If being top-tier is the only way to understand a game/sport then every coach and/or trainer in top-league professional sports would be a former star.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 08 March 2024 - 09:49 AM.