48 replies to this topic

[DarkBazerker]

Would be super happy, if PGI decided to hide player stats, and psr/tier.

Back when the new psr system came out, we were told to not think about it and just play. I did but most find the green arrow to be a goal and it molds them and changes them and how they play/see the game. I find that once a person no longer has this hanging over there head they do better, and have more fun.

[martian]

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 01:37 AM, said:

Would be super happy, if PGI decided to hide player stats, and psr/tier.

You can hide your Tier in the game client easily. You can also hide your Tier on the forums. And if you leave the game just after your 'Mech's destruction, you will not even see those PSR up / down arrows. Many players do that.

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 01:37 AM, said:

Back when the new psr system came out, we were told to not think about it and just play. I did but most find the green arrow to be a goal and it molds them and changes them and how they play/see the game. I find that once a person no longer has this hanging over there head they do better, and have more fun.

Other players - such as me - can consider seeing their Tier / PSR to be a useful tool for their own improvement. (ditto for those PSR rise / fall arrows).

I also deem seeing other players' Tier badges useful when considering their advices regarding 'Mechs, tactics, loadouts, etc.
Tier 1 badge signifies that such player probably knows what he is talking about. I am much more cautious when reading gameplay advices given by Tier 5 players or by players with their Tier badges hidden.

Probably the most comical are players with their Tier badge hidden, who spam the MWO forums even though they actually do not play the game at all. That is a truly pathetic behaviour.

[JoeMojoJones]

The tier system (or perhaps by inference the matchmaking) isn't very good.....I'm barely average and max tier 1 easy.

I think an easy fix would be to extend it to 7 tiers and keep the same logic, i.e. a Tier 1 player shouldn't be playing with Tier 5's.

New tiers would give those who like the system a small progression challenge and should even out the player skill base where matchmaking groups people with similar skill a bit better.

[martian]

JoeMojoJones, on 20 March 2024 - 03:21 AM, said:

The tier system (or perhaps by inference the matchmaking) isn't very good.....I'm barely average and max tier 1 easy.

I think an easy fix would be to extend it to 7 tiers and keep the same logic, i.e. a Tier 1 player shouldn't be playing with Tier 5's.

New tiers would give those who like the system a small progression challenge and should even out the player skill base where matchmaking groups people with similar skill a bit better.

The problem is that MWO has a relatively small player base (in comparison with other online games). The number of active players at any given time is even smaller.

If you wish to avoid excessive waiting times, there are not many other viable solutions than mix and match various Tiers. You can create 5, 7 or 10 Tiers, but in the end you must put them in one game, so the game can begin and people can actually play.

Also, as you have noticed, the MWO matchmaker is not especially good.

[Curccu]

JoeMojoJones, on 20 March 2024 - 03:21 AM, said:

The tier system (or perhaps by inference the matchmaking) isn't very good.....I'm barely average and max tier 1 easy.

I think an easy fix would be to extend it to 7 tiers and keep the same logic, i.e. a Tier 1 player shouldn't be playing with Tier 5's.

New tiers would give those who like the system a small progression challenge and should even out the player skill base where matchmaking groups people with similar skill a bit better.

Tier/Mm system isn't perfect but...
This game has loads of mechdads or similar who cannot or will not (out of their stubbornness to do good decision in mechlab and on battlefield) perform even close to your "barely average" on average. 85% of this games players are worse than you according to Jarl's.

[Alexander of Macedon]

JoeMojoJones, on 20 March 2024 - 03:21 AM, said:

I'm barely average and max tier 1 easy.

Remember the ramifications of this every single time you see someone with a T3, T4, or T5 badge arguing for the balance changes that they want on these forums. Remember if you have the misfortune of using reddit that ~80-90% of the people on those subs are worse players than your "average" self.

This is the really grim **** about the state of the game's playerbase, not just that it must throw players of vastly different skill levels together into the same match, but that the overwhelming majority of the playerbase still can't manage to play decently consistently enough to climb to tier 1 even with how soft the PSR system is. I haven't played well enough in a game to be at the percentile I am in MWO since I was much younger playing CS, and I've got two decades of slower reflexes working against me here.

As others have said, creating more tiers does not solve the problem of having max ~1-2k concurrent players.

(As for OP's comment, you can turn the indicators off. I like having them because I want to know if I played like **** in the context of a given match, since that's a good indicator that either the build I'm using is bad, I'm playing badly and need to reassess, or I'm too drunk to keep playing.)

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 20 March 2024 - 03:56 AM.

[DarkBazerker]

martian, on 20 March 2024 - 03:07 AM, said:

Other players - such as me - can consider seeing their Tier / PSR to be a useful tool for their own improvement. (ditto for those PSR rise / fall arrows).

I also deem seeing other players' Tier badges useful when considering their advices regarding 'Mechs, tactics, loadouts, etc.
Tier 1 badge signifies that such player probably knows what he is talking about. I am much more cautious when reading gameplay advices given by Tier 5 players or by players with their Tier badges hidden.

Probably the most comical are players with their Tier badge hidden, who spam the MWO forums even though they actually do not play the game at all. That is a truly pathetic behaviour.

You shouldn't be aiming for the green arrow on its own tho, you should be working on your own ablilitys. As far as tier goes, tier is not a measurement of skill but more of time spent playing the game. It's not unheard of for a T5 player to destroy a T1, mainly cause you dont know why those people are in those tiers.

[Davegt27]

sometimes people ask my why I pay attention to PSR/Stats

because PGI cares about stats/PSR
I don't want to care about stats or PSR

I still can't figure out why PGI uses damage taken
I have my suspensions

oh well it is what it is

[Alexander of Macedon]

Davegt27, on 20 March 2024 - 04:47 AM, said:

sometimes people ask my why I pay attention to PSR/Stats

because PGI cares about stats/PSR
I don't want to care about stats or PSR

I still can't figure out why PGI uses damage taken
I have my suspensions

oh well it is what it is

Damage taken is included in PSR because taking damage in MWO is a good thing (in a certain sense). Someone who takes a lot of damage has contributed to their team more than someone who takes little damage, because it means they've been drawing a lot of fire and twisting it across as much of their 'mech as possible.

Someone who doesn't take very much damage either 1) hid behind their team like a rat for the entire match, 2) ran a very slow build that couldn't keep up with their team, or 3) got cored out and died quickly. The rare exception is a hard stomp where nobody on the team took much damage (in which case low damage taken wouldn't affect any individual's PSR much if at all).

High damage is an indicator of team contribution and defensive skill. It isn't as significant a factor as damage dealt because at the end of the day contributing to killing the enemy team is more important than contributing to your team not dying.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 20 March 2024 - 05:04 AM.

[LordNothing]

ive climbed deep into t2 before but its kind of stressfull and the game ceases to be fun. i dont get to run 75% of my mech inventory and many of my playstyles because they make my psr drop like a rock. of the mechs i do play if i switch a lot, i dont get the advantages of familiarity. you have to drill on a single config until you are on 100% muscle memory, and any change to the program will make your psr drop. if you dont play for hours a day every day you get rusty, and that makes your psr drop. its not really worth it to shoot for t1 for t1's sake, nor is it something to be smug about. all you've really demonstrated is that you have a lot of free time on your hands and few responsibilities to consume that time (not aimed at anyone in particular).

Edited by LordNothing, 20 March 2024 - 06:09 AM.

[martian]

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 04:39 AM, said:

You shouldn't be aiming for the green arrow on its own tho, you should be working on your own ablilitys.

Those PSR arrows help me with judging my abilities, indicating after every game if I played good or poorly.

Ditto the PSR bar and Tiers. I can see quickly if I am improving or not.

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 04:39 AM, said:

As far as tier goes, tier is not a measurement of skill but more of time spent playing the game.

Not exactly.

This was mainly the case of the previous PSR version between 2015-2020. That version was skewed heavily towards the upwards movement.

Some people had reached Tier 1 just by the brute force of playing a massive number of games.

The current PSR version is not ideal, but it reflects the player's skill level much better than the previous version.

Some players - who reached T1 previously because they had spent of lot of time playing game - were quite surprised after the PSR reset. They have fallen to T5 because their skill was measured after every game without that upward bias. The more games they played, the faster their fall was.

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 04:39 AM, said:

It's not unheard of for a T5 player to destroy a T1, mainly cause you dont know why those people are in those tiers.

Although it is possible for T1 meet T5 in the game, my experience shows that such situations are very very rare. Generally speaking, T1 players are better skilled than T5 players.

[DarkBazerker]

martian, on 20 March 2024 - 06:08 AM, said:

Those PSR arrows help me with judging my abilities, indicating after every game if I played good or poorly.

Ditto the PSR bar and Tiers. I can see quickly if I am improving or not.

Not exactly.

This was mainly the case of the previous PSR version between 2015-2020. That version was skewed heavily towards the upwards movement.

Some people had reached Tier 1 just by the brute force of playing a massive number of games.

The current PSR version is not ideal, but it reflects the player's skill level much better than the previous version.

Some players - who reached T1 previously because they had spent of lot of time playing game - were quite surprised after the PSR reset. They have fallen to T5 because their skill was measured after every game without that upward bias. The more games they played, the faster their fall was.


Although it is possible for T1 meet T5 in the game, my experience shows that such situations are very very rare. Generally speaking, T1 players are better skilled than T5 players.

Thats the big problem the psr system is not a "goal" system its just to help players have better matches. The thing is if you want you could game the system and farm your way to a higher Tier with little skill * looks at half of T1*

I also wouldn't think I have to explain to you how you can drag a lower tier up to higher tier in a group or the fact that we have private lobbys, when it comes to mismatching players.

[martian]

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 06:45 AM, said:

Thats the big problem the psr system is not a "goal" system its just to help players have better matches.

In your previous post you said that "You shouldn't be aiming for the green arrow on its own tho, you should be working on your own ablilitys."

That is what I am doing - exactly as you have told me. And the PSR bar / Tier is a quite useful tool for me.

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 06:45 AM, said:

The thing is if you want you could game the system and farm your way to a higher Tier with little skill * looks at half of T1*

Is it just your impression or do you have any stats that you could show?

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 06:45 AM, said:

I also wouldn't think I have to explain to you how you can drag a lower tier up to higher tier in a group ...

1) That is the matchmaker problem and the problem of premade groups in the former Solo Queue, not the PSR problem.

2) Your primary point in your first post was that "Would be super happy, if PGI decided to hide player stats, and psr/tier." If you keep the matchmaker unchanged, then everything will stay as it is - no matter if you hide PSR / Tier badges or not. Premade groups would keep playing as they are accustomed to.

DarkBazerker, on 20 March 2024 - 06:45 AM, said:

... or the fact that we have private lobbys, when it comes to mismatching players.

3) Private lobby games have no influence on stats, PSR or Tiers. I am not sure why you are mentioning them. Also, players must be invited there - you can not join the private game if you do not want to. If somebody wishes to play a private game against players of vastly different skill - well, that would be his voluntary decision.

Edited by martian, 20 March 2024 - 07:48 AM.

[Curccu]

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 March 2024 - 05:02 AM, said:

Damage taken is included in PSR because taking damage in MWO is a good thing (in a certain sense). Someone who takes a lot of damage has contributed to their team more than someone who takes little damage, because it means they've been drawing a lot of fire and twisting it across as much of their 'mech as possible.

Someone who doesn't take very much damage either 1) hid behind their team like a rat for the entire match, 2) ran a very slow build that couldn't keep up with their team, or 3) got cored out and died quickly. The rare exception is a hard stomp where nobody on the team took much damage (in which case low damage taken wouldn't affect any individual's PSR much if at all).

High damage is an indicator of team contribution and defensive skill. It isn't as significant a factor as damage dealt because at the end of the day contributing to killing the enemy team is more important than contributing to your team not dying.

Or light mech that draws shitloads of fire but evades it. PSR contribution... zero.

[Ihlrath]

I for one want everyone to know just how awful I am. So that when they lose the match they can see....

It was meeeeeeeeeeee.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 March 2024 - 05:02 AM, said:

Damage taken is included in PSR because taking damage in MWO is a good thing (in a certain sense). [snip]

Hold there. Damage Taken may be displayed in the match results screen, but it's not part of the PSR calculation. IIRC, there's not even a kicker designed for that stat.

[Duke Falcon]

PSR is just here to tell you NOTHING... Just really nothing!
I lately appear in matches to face martian and other high-T peoples. Because PSR means nothing. Nothing for you, nothing for me, nothing for MM, nothing for PSR itself. It is but an ornament in your mechlab and nothing more!

Aidan Crenshaw, on 21 March 2024 - 04:32 AM, said:

Hold there. Damage Taken may be displayed in the match results screen, but it's not part of the PSR calculation. IIRC, there's not even a kicker designed for that stat.

Damage taken is a fun thing. Sometimes it has some weird values even if you survive a match! Or weird values out of hitreg issues. Damage taken is not something what count in matchscore however - or it affects very mildly the score, dunno... I not noticed it has any effect...

[pattonesque]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 21 March 2024 - 04:32 AM, said:

Hold there. Damage Taken may be displayed in the match results screen, but it's not part of the PSR calculation. IIRC, there's not even a kicker designed for that stat.

yeah it's not part of the calculation. The thing is, you could have a match in which your damage taken number matters quite a bit -- like if you live for way longer than you should by skilled use of twisting. Or you could have the same amount of damage taken as a result of being easily farmed. So it *can* matter but it's impossible for the calculation to determine if it should -- so it doesn't try

[Moldur]

Being in Tier 1/2 makes you believe you are just average, which might be true. We have no visibility as to the percentage of players in each tier. Maybe 90% of the active pop is in Tier 1. The tiers are usually described as more or less experience bars that eventually get to 1.

However, if you do so badly that you go from Tier 1 to Tier 5, or *cough* have a dormant account from before the Tier system and start in Tier 5 after having an already established garage and mech builds, you will find that maybe you are not as bad as you thought, and I don't know, maybe get your highest damage highest kills game after not having touched MWO in years.

[East Indy]

Tier works for the most part. It's the Tier 0/1 groups that make mixed queue hard to enjoy (win or lose).

I do think upward tier adjustment from the last reset is still too lenient. Most players should stay planted in 3, where they'relikely to enjoy the game more. And there should probably be an internal Tier 0 for 99th+ percentile to dole out carefully (or offset with lower Tier teammates).