19 replies to this topic

[Whisena]

Let's be honest here, Warthog is op in event play, I think it needs HSL limit. If you say it is balanced, you are full of **** . It is just way too efficient for its weight and damage output and with pretty much no heat generated at all.

Edited by Whisena, 01 July 2024 - 12:34 AM.

[D V Devnull]

I agree after having been a victim of that barrage at least twice that I can remember. Heck, do that with the MagShot as well. Those things tear up stuff far too easily when there's more than about 8 firing at once. Being allowed to do far too much punch for extremely little risk is not a good thing. Can you imagine what someone might do with a Viper VPR-F after a few OmniPod swaps happen? Or heck, what about the Crusader CRD-CR "Crael" with all those Ballistic spots to use?

~D. V. "definitely seconds 'Whisena's AP Gauss HSL motion... but wants to add Magshot HSL too" Devnull



[Edit by the posting author for some missed words & thinking...]

Edited by D V Devnull, 01 July 2024 - 02:09 AM.

[Heat Skink]

to be fair that AP guass warthog does run hot...much hotter than the hmg config...

I dunno about the magshot flea though... but something that light with that many guns should run fairly hot...


https://mwo.nav-alph...=996fdc69_ADR-W -HMG

https://mwo.nav-alph...=f7e6fc05_ADR-W -AP Gauss

https://mwo.nav-alph...cea9029a_FLE-19 <-magshot flea


Okay looking at the magshot flea that does seem ridiculus... 49 alphas??

the warthog has less heat sinks at least in the build i posted and has less heat efficency,

Edited by Heat Skink, 01 July 2024 - 04:11 AM.

[Samziel]

Whisena, on 01 July 2024 - 12:23 AM, said:

Let's be honest here, Warthog is op in event play, I think it needs HSL limit. If you say it is balanced, you are full of **** . It is just way too efficient for its weight and damage output and with pretty much no heat generated at all.

The game is balanced around quick play, not event queue. And if the team has any sense in QP, Warthogs get shot down fast. It's a big "slow" light that needs to get within brawling range. Good firepower for sure, dies fast.

[Saved By The Bell]

These creatures are danger for all kind of mechs.

Usual lights die too fast against them. Big guys cant hit them properly and die too.

A bit too much, like it were cheat vipers some time ago.


Streaks can help, yes.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 01 July 2024 - 05:59 AM.

[Gasboy]

Yep, high dps. Weak legs, slow speed, also shoot the arms or torsos, the ap gauss will do the work for you by exploding.

[crazytimes]

D V Devnull, on 01 July 2024 - 02:03 AM, said:

I agree after having been a victim of that barrage at least twice that I can remember. Heck, do that with the MagShot as well. Those things tear up stuff far too easily when there's more than about 8 firing at once. Being allowed to do far too much punch for extremely little risk is not a good thing. Can you imagine what someone might do with a Viper VPR-F after a few OmniPod swaps happen? Or heck, what about the Crusader CRD-CR &quot;Crael&quot; with all those Ballistic spots to use?

Viper is weight limited for ammo. Dropping a couple of APs for ammo makes it functional, but it's still not a fantastic build. It loses a lot to fixed JJs.

Warthog is in the same boat as the Crael- great performance in niche events, but less of an outlier in QP. Balance is across the board, not nerfs just because it performs well in one event..

[Whisena]

crazytimes, on 01 July 2024 - 01:50 PM, said:

Viper is weight limited for ammo. Dropping a couple of APs for ammo makes it functional, but it's still not a fantastic build. It loses a lot to fixed JJs.

Warthog is in the same boat as the Crael- great performance in niche events, but less of an outlier in QP. Balance is across the board, not nerfs just because it performs well in one event..

Even as weapon of choice AP gauss and Magshot out perform machineguns in quick play. It has low cool down and high pinpoint damage, you can torso twist quickly to spread return fire damage while machine gun you have to keep facing enemy to maintain damage. As I said, it is simply way too efficient. Weight, damage, heat, ability to torso twist, slot size, cool downs, tell me what are the downsides of AP and Mag? None. When mechs have heavy quirk favoring machine guns but pretty much 99% of players choose AP gauss and magshot instead, you know it is a balance issue because not even quirk can compete with such weapon.

Edited by Whisena, 01 July 2024 - 02:37 PM.

[Mister Smile]

Played several rounds in QP against a duo of AP-gauss warthogs. We lost every match and those 2 had always the most kills combined. Don't want to know what a group of 4 can do...

Edited by Mister Smile, 01 July 2024 - 03:17 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

Aaa, almost forgot.

So I saw today AP-gauss Warthog, who started teleporting before me. I shoot it 2 times with snoobs desperately, but was unable to hit. But he was hitting me. Its a cheat exploit, I seen it before many times. Fast mech suddenly start teleporting to escape hits. But now, when you facing AP-gauss, its... heh.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 02 July 2024 - 09:26 AM.

[Gasboy]

Saved By The Bell, on 02 July 2024 - 09:25 AM, said:

Aaa, almost forgot.

So I saw today AP-gauss Warthog, who started teleporting before me. I shoot it 2 times with snoobs desperately, but was unable to hit. But he was hitting me. Its a cheat exploit, I seen it before many times. Fast mech suddenly start teleporting to escape hits. But now, when you facing AP-gauss, its... heh.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[East Indy]

The APG/Magshot boats are obvious playthings used by an obviously select group of players. The guy who started the HBK thread had a point missed by all the galaxy brains who swooped in and made excuses -- as with most overlooked imbalances, these boats eliminate mediums and low-end heavies with the absolute gall to run short or medium range.

Unless offending 'Mech sales are propping MWO up, show some common sense. Limit 'em to 4 per shot.

[Gasboy]

East Indy, on 04 July 2024 - 06:37 AM, said:

The APG/Magshot boats are obvious playthings used by an obviously select group of players. The guy who started the HBK thread had a point missed by all the galaxy brains who swooped in and made excuses -- as with most overlooked imbalances, these boats eliminate mediums and low-end heavies with the absolute gall to run short or medium range.

Unless offending 'Mech sales are propping MWO up, show some common sense. Limit 'em to 4 per shot.

No, the proper thing to do is to give ap gauss and magshot the same chargeup time as regular gauss have. A 28 point alpha isn't the problem, it's a 28 point alpha every two-ish seconds. That and/or up the cooldown a smidge.

[East Indy]

Gasboy, on 04 July 2024 - 06:45 AM, said:

No, the proper thing to do is to give ap gauss and magshot the same chargeup time as regular gauss have. A 28 point alpha isn't the problem, it's a 28 point alpha every two-ish seconds. That and/or up the cooldown a smidge.

That doesn't solve the have/have-not chassis discrepancy with boating. Who's popularly mixing AP/Mag with other weapons? It's boat or die.

It also raises the skill floor in a way that's negligible to the players effectively exploiting the builds, making them even more of a spoiler.

[torsie]

What if they shoot more projectiles? I think the strong thing on them, is they shoot everything at once on single place. PPFLD (funny name ).
Even if you have machine guns with more damage, you need to stand there and aim, and if you or other mech is moving then you do damage everywhere, but tiny gauss does not have same problem.

With spread that you can not control, unless you are standing right next to your target, this would make them slightly weaker but not directly lowering damage.

IS variant could be like that new Silver gauss or LBX2, shooting two projectiles at once and Clans are not allowed to have weapons with single projectile, so it will be like tiny UAC2, shooting two projectiles in row.

Now I am thinking about it, can giving them projectile help on its own? Because they now work like machine guns and hit instantly, but I am maybe wrong about that.

[feeWAIVER]

I don't own a warthog. When I come across one, they are intimidating for sure... but that's okay. It's working as intended.
If you think it's OP, you should probably buy it. Before you call to nerf it, you should probably play it.

[Meep Meep]

For quick play I think a magshot fle19 or ap gauss pir A is a much better platform than the warthog. But for events in the tiny solaris maps the warthog is just blatantly op in the hands of someone that can aim much like the snac orion tends to dominate heavy events.

[Gasboy]

East Indy, on 04 July 2024 - 07:08 AM, said:

That doesn't solve the have/have-not chassis discrepancy with boating. Who's popularly mixing AP/Mag with other weapons? It's boat or die.

It also raises the skill floor in a way that's negligible to the players effectively exploiting the builds, making them even more of a spoiler.

It'll be available for cbills. So everyone will have it. And be able to figure out how to kill it. And good players being good and making a mech OP? That's how it's supposed to work.

[lucian de hikari]

AP/magshot completly imbalanced. One light mech can kill any mid (4-5 shoots MAX in 80-90% armor w/o hardering), heavy (9-15 strikes) and assault (15-20 shots). Sad but true. Or is the chance of a critical hit with a magshot > 50%??
P.S. I have never played and will not play the modern meta stuff like (x-weapons, beam lasers, etc.), thuderbolt missiles, magshots, and other new crap.
P.P.S. The mugshot should have a 2x cooldown at least.

[Ignatius Audene]

Other than AP Gauss (only on warthog or in combo with plasma etc to enhance the alpha) and comp use for xpls nothing u mentioned has much to do with the meta at all.